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Old 09-29-2009, 02:24 AM   #1
alpentalic
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Default Looking to blow up a NA 90-94 Legacy

Ok, so for the past four years I've owned my 04 wrx wagon and a up comming carrer change is leading me down the road to buying a chevy duramax. The problem here is over the last four year I've developed a slight addition to modding and while I know a duramax has a lot of options for modding, there's a catch... I'd be getting a good deal on this truck from my father in law with the stipulation that I do not modify the engine.

So I'm looking for a low budget, but moderate time investment project. I've tried to read as many posts in the FI on NA section as possible. However, there are only so many searches that I can think of to bring up all the older posts.

So here's where I'm at... Looking into the feasability of running a low boost turbo set up on the 9.5:1 compression ratio 2.2l NA motor. I like this idea from the stand point that I would be able to use a lot of my wrx parts when I go back to stock with my wrx and due to Subaru's extreme interchangability, there are plenty of parts available.

So after my long winded intro, here's my question... What parts would I need to reasonably run a low boost turbo set up and can I expect any reasonable level of reliability. In the end my goal would be to move to a EJ20/25 swap with an OBDII ECU once the EJ22 blows, but for the moment I think it would be fun to experiment.

Parts list:
WRX exhaust manifold - supposed to fit the early dual port EJ22 heads
Up Pipe - coming off my wrx
TD04 Running WG pressure only - would source one for ~$100-$150
TBE - coming off my wrx
Modded Stock 270cc injectors - grind off stock screens
PerfectPower6 piggyback EMS
Notched or Turbo Crossmember
TMIC - have an STI coming off wrx
Turbo Water Pump - I guess this is due to clearance issues???

Other parts that may be usable:
04 STI take off struts and springs
wrx RSB and endlinks
5X100 17's with ZR rubber.


Any help adding to this list, or shooting down a stupid idea before it becomes a stupid reality, is appreciated.
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Last edited by alpentalic; 09-29-2009 at 11:11 AM. Reason: updated parts list
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Old 09-29-2009, 02:50 AM   #2
reddevil
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goes 12.387 @ 116.5

Default

Everything looks good. But the reason I have blown over 15 motors on the old ECUs is the timng of the old NA ECUs... At WOT they run 32 BFDC!!!!!! Occsionally it will hit 29 BFDC but I have yet to see why, so I always work with 32.

So what you need is a PP6 (PerfectPower6) so you can pull timing.

It has been years since I ran NA motors boosted, and I never ran them to their potential with the PP6, I always ran them too far advanced because I didn not know the timing they were running. But now I would like to run another high compression motor on boost now that I know the timing schedule!
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Old 09-29-2009, 11:33 AM   #3
alpentalic
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Default

Thanks for the response Red, I've read through your entire thread on your legy and some of the older posts on the original reddevil. I read in there you were able to get your engine out of the legy in 45 minutes?! That's amazing.

So, 32* huh? That seems like an awful lot. Sounds like a recipe for detonation. I have no experience with tuning, but I've spent some time reading through the EMS section. I was looking at the PP6 and it seemed like the best option given the ability to pull timing. I was just hoping that I could get away without it seeing as it has a higher price tag than a SAFC, but 32* of advance seems like good way to get to my goal of blowing up the NA quicker than I would like.

The one thing that I hadn't really considered was the intake. Is there enough room under the NA intake manifold to run a stock/aftermarket wrx turbo inlet? If not what are my options?
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Old 09-29-2009, 06:41 PM   #4
Zac86
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One question...why buy a na legacy when you can buy a turbo version from that year? alot better base to start off with.
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Old 09-29-2009, 07:21 PM   #5
alpentalic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zac86 View Post
One question...why buy a na legacy when you can buy a turbo version from that year? alot better base to start off with.
I've looked and I'm definately not ruling out a turbo model as an option, but they're hard to come by in general and even harder to come by in a 5 spd. Beyond the troubles of finding a decent SS, my end goal is to swap an EJ20/25, which makes paying extra $$$ for a SS seem wasteful.

I figure less the engine management, I have most of the parts necessary to bolt up the turbo and in the end I'll have something that's a little different. I haven't made up my mind yet as to what I want to do. I may even find a brighton or some little impreza to swap if I find a good deal. Right now I'm just weighting my options and trying to develop a plan.
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Old 09-29-2009, 07:29 PM   #6
69subaru360
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1998 2.5 RS

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I am running a 93 legacy 2.2 shortblock in my wrx with the EJ205 heads which lowers the compression to slightly less than 9:1. It's working well so far with 20+ psi. Just something to consider. As noted above it does not like a lot of timing. I had to run 3-5 degrees less than what I ran with the 2.0
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Old 09-29-2009, 07:35 PM   #7
69subaru360
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by alpentalic View Post
Thanks for the response Red, I've read through your entire thread on your legy and some of the older posts on the original reddevil. I read in there you were able to get your engine out of the legy in 45 minutes?! That's amazing.

So, 32* huh? That seems like an awful lot. Sounds like a recipe for detonation. I have no experience with tuning, but I've spent some time reading through the EMS section. I was looking at the PP6 and it seemed like the best option given the ability to pull timing. I was just hoping that I could get away without it seeing as it has a higher price tag than a SAFC, but 32* of advance seems like good way to get to my goal of blowing up the NA quicker than I would like.

The one thing that I hadn't really considered was the intake. Is there enough room under the NA intake manifold to run a stock/aftermarket wrx turbo inlet? If not what are my options?
32 degrees of timing will crack the ringlands and hole the pistons in just a few pulls. You want about half of that.

If you get a wrx coolant crossover pipe and re-route the metal fuel lines such as when doing the parallel fuel rails, you should be able to get a turbo inlet under the EJ22 NA manifold.
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Old 09-30-2009, 02:02 AM   #8
White 2.5rs
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Dude not being a dick in the slightest but is he like.. trying to tell you something? That seems like a weird stipulation for him to make... maybe if he were your dad.
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Old 09-30-2009, 02:20 AM   #9
05Scooby
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seems like a pretty interesting idea, I'm subscribing. good luck!
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Old 09-30-2009, 01:05 PM   #10
joejoe69
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You can get away with 8psi wastegate pressure (without restrictor pill) and not retard timing. You just have to dump extra fuel in there to cool off the combustion temps. Not too much though, or else you'll wash your bores with fuel. Anyway to do it right, get some EM or timing control.

And the intake under the EJ18 manifold?? Let me enlighten you my friend:

http://www.rs25.com/forums/f7/81773-...ml#post1599103
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Old 09-30-2009, 02:48 PM   #11
alpentalic
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Default

Thanks for all the info guys. I was looking a the engine bay of a EJ22 online yesterday and notice the PS was right in the way of were the inlet would need to go. It's good to see that it's still manageable if you move or ditch the ps with a little bit of effort.

I also like the idea of running the EJ205 heads on the 2.2l block, seems like a good hybrid and I'd be able to use the DOHC intake from the wrx, run 440cc stock wrx injectors, fuel lines, etc.
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Old 09-30-2009, 06:34 PM   #12
joejoe69
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You can use a WRX/STI pump and remote reservoir to clear the intake. It bolts right up. I just took mine out because it was leaking like ass.

You can run EJ205 or EJ255 heads with the EJ22.
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Old 10-07-2009, 04:54 PM   #13
jey
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You can also just get a rubber hose and cram it in there:

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Old 10-07-2009, 05:19 PM   #14
alpentalic
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^^^ You get any compressor surge running with out a BOV like that?
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Old 10-13-2009, 03:33 PM   #15
jey
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Probably. But I never drove it like that. This is an old picture from when the whole thing was put together and it turns out I had a bad BOV, so we put the plate in there for the time being so we could at least start the motor to see if it ran.
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