Solo hybrid drivers may lose carpool lane privileges

[AVANTI R5]

The days may be numbered for hybrid car owners who have enjoyed traveling solo in California's carpool lanes.

The stickers granting that privilege to 85,000 hybrid owners are set to expire Jan. 1, 2011. There are proposals in Sacramento to extend the deadline, but they would exclude most of the vehicles that originally qualified for the program, such as the Toyota Prius, the Honda Civic hybrid and the original Honda Insight.

"We're bummed," said Cathy Margolin, president of the 250-member Orange County Prius Club. "I drive from Newport Beach to Torrance to teach four times a week, and it saves me an hour every day on the 405."

For hybrid owners, losing their stickers would be more than an inconvenience. The carpool lane exemption added $1,000 to $2,000 to the value of a used hybrid. Some used-car dealers say they are already seeing that premium shrink as the deadline gets closer.

"We've definitely seen those Priuses and Civic hybrids move back toward normal pricing," said Carey Caldwell, a local purchasing manager for CarMax, which operates a national chain of used-car dealerships.

The goal of the 2004 law that created the sticker program was to encourage the purchase of advanced-technology vehicles that delivered better fuel economy and produced lower emissions.

Gasoline-electric hybrids with combined city-highway mileage of 45 miles per gallon or better were eligible for a yellow sticker. The number of yellow stickers was capped at 85,000, and the last one was given out in February 2007.

White stickers granting the same carpool-lane exemption were authorized for electric cars and vehicles powered by alternative fuels such as natural gas. There was no limit placed on these stickers, and so far about 9,500 have been given out.

All the stickers were originally set to expire in 2008, but the Legislature extended that deadline to 2011.

Now, lawmakers want to up the ante. A bill by Assemblyman Ted Lieu (D-Torrance) that the Assembly passed this year would extend the carpool lane exemption to 2016 but limit it to drivers of vehicles powered by electricity, natural gas or some other alternative fuel.

A competing Senate bill included hybrids but only those that achieve city-highway fuel economy of 65 mpg or better -- well beyond the official ratings of the current crop of hybrids.

"What we're saying is that the hybrid isn't good enough anymore," said Adam Keigwin, chief of staff for Sen. Leland Yee (D-San Francisco), sponsor of the Senate bill.

He said the Senate also wants to examine the whole issue of carpool lane exemptions before deciding to grant another reprieve to sticker holders.

Many of the state's carpool lanes have become so clogged that California risks losing federal highway funding. Forcing thousands of driver-only hybrids back into the regular freeway lanes is seen as one way to reduce the congestion.

Even some hybrid owners acknowledge that the original intent of the law has clearly been achieved.

"I live in Santa Monica and you can't swing a dead cat here without hitting a Prius, so the bill served its purpose," said Will Kepper, who has a sticker on his 2001 Prius.

The issue isn't likely to be settled until the Legislature reconvenes next year.

Makers of alternative-fuel vehicles fret that failing to extend the deadline for the white stickers could remove an important incentive for potential buyers.

Fleet operators are important customers for the natural-gas-powered Honda GX, and the carpool lane stickers are a big part of the appeal, said Todd Mittleman, a spokesman for the Japanese automaker.

"Our customers are finding them indispensable in Southern California traffic," he said.

Sharon Delugach of Los Angeles, a 2003 Prius owner and chief of staff for an L.A. school board member, knows the feeling.

"I had no idea they were going to expire," she said of her stickers. "I thought I was set for life."

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-f...,7786304.story

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[Not-EWRX]

Why don't they just charge a fee?

[AVANTI R5]

This week's sign of the Carpocalypse? Close-to-the-door hybrid-only parking spaces. Our only question is how much carbon Greenhouse emissions are spewed out the tailpipes of the tow trucks coming to tow away violators?

http://jalopnik.com/5369392/hotel-fi...-hybrids-keyed

[Badler]

It will never end.

[Masterauto]

Selfish little sanctimonious basters should have a full load like the rest of us.

[SCRAPPYDO]

Guys guys, settle down...

Don't you see, its proof that we unindoctrinated masses, are in fact winning. These people who bought a Prius needed to be begged and bribed to buy one.

"Buy car X and you get a free carpool lane pass". Without that bribery, dealers are worrying that people will not want a Hybrid as much anymore. The artificial demand for these cars is about to wain.

I find this funny. What it proves is for a certain portion of the people who bought the hybrids did not care about being green, they wanted that car pool lane. The holier than thou did not give a poop about CO2. True colors no doubt.

[delongedoug]

Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO

Guys guys, settle down...

Don't you see, its proof that we unindoctrinated masses, are in fact winning. These people who bought a Prius needed to be begged and bribed to buy one.

"Buy car X and you get a free carpool lane pass". Without that bribery, dealers are worrying that people will not want a Hybrid as much anymore. The artificial demand for these cars is about to wain.

I find this funny. What it proves is for a certain portion of the people who bought the hybrids did not care about being green, they wanted that car pool lane. The holier than thou did not give a poop about CO2. True colors no doubt.

People want them so badly! Just listen to the heroes on this board preach about how many people would buy one for their next car!

[White out]

So that's what all those yellow stickers are for. I always thought it was a smug thing.

Nick

[SCRAPPYDO]

Its like a merit badge for smug people.

[JC]

Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO

I find this funny. What it proves is for a certain portion of the people who bought the hybrids did not care about being green, they wanted that car pool lane. The holier than thou did not give a poop about CO2. True colors no doubt.

The only people I meet with a holier than thou attitude about hybrids are people like you who think they are stupid. Everyone I've met who actually owns one (and I live in LA so that's a lot of people) thinks of it like a Camry that gets better gas mileage and sometimes can get them in the car pool lane. I think this attitude you "see" is really just you projecting your own biases.

[vapore0n]

I agree with the proposal though.
The hybrid word has been thrown around too much.

Add a electric engine to assist the gas powered engine
add a heavy battery
increase mpg by 1
increase cost of car by 5-10k
call it a hybrid
cash in on all the hybrid benefits like hov lanes and special parking spaces, etc

Time to redefine the word, or use of it.

[Yotsuya]

Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO

Its like a merit badge for smug people.

So what's a Hummer represent?

I've seen that little yellow sticker on a grease burning Golf as well.

[JC]

Originally Posted by vapore0n

I agree with the proposal though.
The hybrid word has been thrown around too much.

Add a electric engine to assist the gas powered engine
add a heavy battery
increase mpg by 1
increase cost of car by 5-10k
call it a hybrid
cash in on all the hybrid benefits like hov lanes and special parking spaces, etc

Time to redefine the word, or use of it.

I know reading is never a strong suit on this forum.

Gasoline-electric hybrids with combined city-highway mileage of 45 miles per gallon or better were eligible for a yellow sticker.

[SCRAPPYDO]

Originally Posted by Yotsuya

So what's a Hummer represent?

I've seen that little yellow sticker on a grease burning Golf as well.

Same thing. I may not like prius, but I support anybodies right to buy one, no matter how misguided. It's their money.

[SCRAPPYDO]

Originally Posted by JC

The only people I meet with a holier than thou attitude about hybrids are people like you who think they are stupid. Everyone I've met who actually owns one (and I live in LA so that's a lot of people) thinks of it like a Camry that gets better gas mileage and sometimes can get them in the car pool lane. I think this attitude you "see" is really just you projecting your own biases.

Well then I have to say that I will disagree with 50% of what you wrote. I do have my biases that jade my opinion to some extent, we all do. But I have met some holier than thou 'sanctimonious bastards' as it was previously eloquently put as well. People beat you over the head with save the earth propaganda and ask me why I do not drive a hybrid. And I am in TEXAS for Petes sake.

I have also met some people who bought it for its gas mileage only as well.
Its a mixed bag.

I am by no means untainted in my incredible dislike against the poster child for the 'green' religion. I do look for ways to see the lunacy in it and point it out each chance I can. I have made no secret of this and people should always keep in mind my biases and prejudices when they read anything I post. We are all individuals here. WE may not agree with one another, but I respect all of you. I have my thoughts on every subject, most of my opinions are based on history and fact, but some are based on emotions and illogical rhetoric jades with personal biases. I am a flawed person..

[aren040]

Originally Posted by JC

I know reading is never a strong suit on this forum.

Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO

Well then I have to say that I will disagree with 50% of what you wrote. I do have my biases that jade my opinion to some extent, we all do. But I have met some holier than thou 'sanctimonious bastards' as it was previously eloquently put as well. People beat you over the head with save the earth propaganda and ask me why I do not drive a hybrid. And I am in TEXAS for Petes sake.

I have also met some people who bought it for its gas mileage only as well.
Its a mixed bag.

I am by no means untainted in my incredible dislike against the poster child for the 'green' religion. I do look for ways to see the lunacy in it and point it out each chance I can. I have made no secret of this and people should always keep in mind my biases and prejudices when they read anything I post. We are all individuals here. WE may not agree with one another, but I respect all of you. I have my thoughts on every subject, most of my opinions are based on history and fact, but some are based on emotions and illogical rhetoric jades with personal biases. I am a flawed person..

Very well stated. I know people and have met people from both sides of the isle. Some people just preach because that is what they do. If it wasn't the save the earth campaign then it would be something else. Then there are others that enjoy the gas savings and could care less about the green movement. "To each their own", as long as people remember the the comment works both ways.

[rallymaniac]

it's about damn time they restrics hybrids in the carpool lanes unless there is at least 2 people. I totally did not understand the logical connection between hybrid and congestion relief It takes as much space as any other car so why should it be allowed in the HOV lanes with only one person in it???

[JC]

Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO

Well then I have to say that I will disagree with 50% of what you wrote. I do have my biases that jade my opinion to some extent, we all do. But I have met some holier than thou 'sanctimonious bastards' as it was previously eloquently put as well. People beat you over the head with save the earth propaganda and ask me why I do not drive a hybrid. And I am in TEXAS for Petes sake.

I have also met some people who bought it for its gas mileage only as well.
Its a mixed bag.

I am by no means untainted in my incredible dislike against the poster child for the 'green' religion. I do look for ways to see the lunacy in it and point it out each chance I can. I have made no secret of this and people should always keep in mind my biases and prejudices when they read anything I post. We are all individuals here. WE may not agree with one another, but I respect all of you. I have my thoughts on every subject, most of my opinions are based on history and fact, but some are based on emotions and illogical rhetoric jades with personal biases. I am a flawed person..

That because you live in Texas. The green people in Cali walk, bike, or drive a grease car. Prius' are too consumer for them. Regardless I don't see why you would hold any of that against the car. Electric cars and hybrids are the future, get used to. You might as well stop ranting about it and focus on getting those kids off your lawn instead.

[aren040]

Originally Posted by rallymaniac

it's about damn time they restrics hybrids in the carpool lanes unless there is at least 2 people. I totally did not understand the logical connection between hybrid and congestion relief It takes as much space as any other car so why should it be allowed in the HOV lanes with only one person in it???

I think the logic behind that car emissions more than anything. The more passengers in a car the less emissions per passenger. I thought that is why bikes could do it too. Unless I am completely wrong, in which case, someone please set me straight.

[rallymaniac]

Originally Posted by aren040

I think the logic behind that car emissions more than anything. The more passengers in a car the less emissions per passenger. I thought that is why bikes could do it too. Unless I am completely wrong, in which case, someone please set me straight.

this would not make sense as well, because for example a simple civic would not be allowed in HOV lanes while more polluting Escape or Tahoe will.

[JC]

Originally Posted by aren040

I think the logic behind that car emissions more than anything. The more passengers in a car the less emissions per passenger. I thought that is why bikes could do it too. Unless I am completely wrong, in which case, someone please set me straight.

Originally Posted by rallymaniac

this would not make sense as well, because for example a simple civic would not be allowed in HOV lanes while more polluting Escape or Tahoe will.

Carpool lanes are to reduce congestion. However since people in CA are stupid they weren't being fully utilized since not many people carpool anyway. Letting hybrids into carpool lanes gave incentives to buy lower pollution cars and also reduced overall congestion by utilizing the carpool lanes more effectively. It was a win-win. However now the carpool lanes are being crowded with hybrids (who always seem to drive slow) since they sold so well.

[under5]

good.

[aren040]

Then why let motorcycles into carpool lanes? It still does not make sense. From what I googled, it stated that it was a safety issue because it was safer to let motorcycles keep moving rather than having them be in stop and go traffic, but that doesn't make any sense either.

[SCRAPPYDO]

It use to when bikes were air cooled. It is sort of an out of date law.

[JC]

Originally Posted by aren040

Then why let motorcycles into carpool lanes? It still does not make sense. From what I googled, it stated that it was a safety issue because it was safer to let motorcycles keep moving rather than having them be in stop and go traffic, but that doesn't make any sense either.

Why wouldn't you? Lane splitting is legal in CA and it's safer to do from the carpool lane. There is no downside?