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Old 05-09-2002, 11:06 PM   #1
supermarkus
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Thumbs up My thoughts on STi engine mounts.

Ok, so I now have the my engine mounts that I got from WRXOnly installed and road tested. Big props to Cascade Autosport out in North Bend for doing the install and letting me crawl all over their shop. I must apologize to Peter and the crew for nearly bringing their work to a complete halt while I pestered them with all sorts of ridiculous questions for nearly 3 hours straight. Peter and Todd answered ALL of my questions to the best of their ability and experience without putting on the "salesman hat". And if you guys like to talk rally, head on out there, gawk at awesome cars and listen. Peter is more than willing to tell you everything he can about the cars he works on. And soon he will have a real EVO to prep as the shop car!!! I'm guessing mid June or so is when it'll be in, check with them to be sure. I can't stress how much fun I had doing the "car geek" thing out there. These guys rank right up there with Smart Service for advice and straight shooting. All you guys in WA need to head on down there and say hello, right now dammit!
Now on to the review.

I dont notice any extra noise from my STi engine mounts but there is a little extra vibration at startup and if I rev to about 2k rpm, there is a brief burst of vibration. It only lasts until the 2100 range, not very alarming but noticable. The engine moves MAYBE 1/16th of an inch when I rev hard now. The engine definitely feels more connected to the rest of the car. At lower speeds, when I let off the throttle, the car doesn't bottom out the engine mounts and give you the "whump" (for lack of a better term). It just slows down without throwing you and your passengers forward. For example, in first gear, I used to be able to make my passenger just about hit his head on the dash when I lifted off throttle. Now the car slows down more gracefully. Does this make sense?

What I think is going on is engine braking is now smoother. With softer mounts I think the mounts would bottom out as the engine moved around and the rebound loaded the engine suddenly under engine braking which threw passengers all over creation. I think the harder mounts allow engine braking to be more immediate yet gradual. So the energy that would have been stored in soft bushings and suddenly bounced back at the engine all at once is quickly transmitted to the engine while it is up to speed and rpms are still high. I'm I even close?

Anyway, the mounts make the car feel really solid, and when coupled with the tranny mount, sloppy shifting is a thing of the past. Ok so that may be hyberbole there, but shifting is about as good as it gets on this subie 5mt. I love how then engine just doesn't move when reved up! Hope this helps. If there are any questions, pipe up. I'd love to hear from other people with them installed.
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Old 05-10-2002, 01:58 AM   #2
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I have had a set of the STi engine and tranny mounts sitting around for a year, which leads me to - how much did Cascade charge to install them, if you don't mind my asking?
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Old 05-10-2002, 02:03 AM   #3
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2 hours @ $65/ hour. Certainly not cheap but I don't ever want to spend an afternoon on my back under the car trying to put these things in. I crawled under the car and planned my attack, then when i got to the driver side and all the cross member/bs in the way, I knew I had enough money to get them professionally installed.
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Old 05-10-2002, 01:00 PM   #4
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Default Re: My thoughts on STi engine mounts.

Quote:
Originally posted by supermarkus

more connected to the rest of the car. At lower speeds, when I let off the throttle, the car doesn't bottom out the engine mounts and give you the "whump" (for lack of a better term). It just slows down without throwing you and your passengers forward. For example, in first gear, I used to be able to make my passenger just about hit his head on the dash when I lifted off throttle. Now the car slows down more gracefully. Does this make sense?
I don't see this effect!?

Last edited by bemani; 05-30-2002 at 12:47 PM.
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Old 05-11-2002, 06:13 PM   #5
shrieden
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Seems fair enough, I might just expend the money and get them done professionally
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Old 05-12-2002, 05:24 AM   #6
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One other thing I've been thinking about is what effect running a hardend tranny mount without the associated engine mounts had on my drive components. I went two months on those floppy stock engine mounts while I had the Group N tranny mount on, I'm thinking I could have done some damage to the tranny mount. I created a hard point that didn't allow the whole drivetrain to move as a unit when I had just the tranny mount in. Does anyone think this should be of any concern? I'm asking because my tranny tunnel was wet around the half shafts and slightly leaking from one of the detents. I'm going to take her in next week if Carter has an opening.
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Old 05-22-2002, 04:18 PM   #7
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I was going to post sooner but I wanted to spent at least a week on the mounts before I felt like I knew enough to post. I've got both the STi engine and tranny mounts.

Initially the increased vibration was very noticible but not objectionable. The engine was so much more responsive and it felt like the power was all going to the wheels rather than rattling the engine/tranny around. When you get above 4K that intake growl is even meaner than befor and the mounts seem to add a deeper base to the engine note. On/Off throttle response is much better. The engine loses revs much slower than before when you let off the gas for a second. I've been in a couple bad traffic situations with the mounts and no complaints. Traffic was actually a bit easier. This is how the car should be stock.

After 3 days the vibration went down. It was almost at stock levels. All the advantages were still there. Great stuff. Great price from WRX_ONLY. Great install by Motor Madness in SoCal.
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Old 05-29-2002, 10:04 PM   #8
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It looks like I'll have to order some up as well. Does it help on normal starting from a stop?
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Old 06-04-2002, 10:14 AM   #9
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Hey, can someone else update this diminution of vibration that Zahnster is reporting? I know that sometimes, we get used to vibrations, which is why I'm wondering if it actually diminished, or if you just got used to it.

Kevin
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Old 06-04-2002, 03:01 PM   #10
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The STi mounts are simply higher durometer vulcanized rubber as compared to the stock mounts. Under initial stress, a piece of previously quiescent crosslinked rubber will respond with a given strain. This will serve to break a small percentage of the crosslinking bonds. As long as the stress and the resultant strain do not continuously increase, once the initial settling-in is done, the rubber will be purely elastic. How do I know? Background in polymer science and several years designing reinforced natural and synthetic elastomer-based adhesives.

Given the amount of break-in expected, I'd not have guessed it would have been detectible.

Wilkey
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Old 06-04-2002, 05:56 PM   #11
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Quote:
Given the amount of break-in expected, I'd not have guessed it would have been detectible.
Are you saying I shouldn't have been able to notice what I did notice? I'm confused.

The only place where I feel there has been any increase in vibration was the accelerator pedal. I've driven another WRX that had more vibration than I feel now, when he was stock!

I don't think I can say it enough that to me there was no downside to this mod. I'm pretty sure it's not just me getting used to it. It really was noticable smoother after a couple days.
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Old 06-04-2002, 06:02 PM   #12
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I thought more about what Ginseng said and here is my thoughts:

In those first 3 days I was so intoxicated by the new sound I experienced above 4K that I reved the engine out quite a few times. This may have caused the initial break-in to include alot of vibration that led to a softer resulting rubber in the mounts. If I had babied it for a few days the initial break-in might have led to harder mounts.
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Old 06-04-2002, 09:08 PM   #13
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Well,

Believe it or not, the science of vulcanizing rubber is a complex one that goes back over 50 years. Without knowing exactly what route STi took, it's almost impossible to guess specifics. Only generalizations apply. With the right antioxidant, crosslinker and accelerator package, a piece of rubber could be made to rival or exceed the properties of engineering polyurethane elastomers (such as the bushings from Powerflex).

For all I know, these mounts could be good for years. As for the breaking-in effect, all rubber relaxes as it's worked. From untangling molecular entanglements to the breaking of bonds, there will be some effect. The intermediate and end results are also greatly affected by the grade of rubber used. For example, SIR10 or Standard Indonesian Rubber grade 10 is so dirty that the bales actually appear black. I've picked pieces of wood out of this rubber. Contrast this with Smoked Sheet or Pale Crepe, both higher grade, cleaner, stronger base rubbers. All natural from the rubber tree.

In any case, I have no doubt the STi mounts are superior in every functional way. But just to be sure, I'll let you know once I get my set on

Wilkey
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Old 06-05-2002, 12:42 AM   #14
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WOW!!!! You know a lot about rubbers!
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Old 06-05-2002, 10:19 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by -=Ph/\t WRX=-
WOW!!!! You know a lot about rubbers!
Thats our Wilkey!


Bill
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Old 06-06-2002, 09:34 PM   #16
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Oh man, speaking of rubber, the latex rubber vs. urethane argument doesn't stop with suspension bushings. There's a company that makes a condom out of urethane instead of latex. The third kind of condom (marketed as natural membrane) being made of the lining of a sheep's intestine. Ugh, who'd wanna put that on their what to stick it where? The supposed benefits of the urethane are 1) better heat transfer, so it feels warm instead of clammy and 2) correct frictional characteristics in terms of stick-slip static versus dynamic coefficients of friction, so it feels more like skin on skin. Urethane is also much tougher than condom-grade latex rubber. Unfortunately, the first attempts at this idea didn't do too well because the urethane was not as elastic, snug. Thus it tended to flop about and come loose. Yikes!

Don't ask me how I know this. I read it somewhere is all I'll admit to.

Quote:
Originally posted by -=Ph/\t WRX=-
WOW!!!! You know a lot about rubbers!
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Old 06-07-2002, 10:33 PM   #17
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i break at least one out of three of those urethane rubbers.
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Old 07-16-2002, 12:50 AM   #18
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I just finished installing my engine mounts.. everything that they say about under an hour installation, i have no idea how you guys did it. maybe took me 1.5 - 2 hrs to do, all because of the passenger rear bolt. i got it with my open end wrench and some WD40, but i cut my hands up pretty good. I installed the tranny mount a few days prior to the engine one to get a better evaluation for each thing I put in my car.

Haven't really noticed much with the engine mount except that when I start the car, the engine barely moves side to side anymore. My brother was in the car with me when i went for the drive and he said when i shifted from 2nd to 3rd, it was smoother - meaning that he didn't get shot forward when i dropped the clutch. still evaluating, but if i didn't have anything else to do yesterday i would have gone to a shop to have these installed.

BTW does anyone know the torque settings for everything? i torqued the bolts going into the engine at 40 ft lbs - except for the rear bolts on both mounts i sort of guesstimated, and the washer to the subframe at 50. that should be good, right?
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Old 07-18-2002, 02:50 PM   #19
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The engine mounts were a bitch to get to. I had my car on Rhino Ramps because I was afraid to use jacks so this might've affected the accessibility of the the nuts. In any case, while removing the exhaust headers, I accidentally removed 3 of the studs that hold the headers to the block because the nuts were stuck to them. I stripped the nut holding the engine mount to the crossmember because I couldn't get a good grip with the 14mm ratchet. I tried a 14mm box end wrench but couldn't get enough leverage to move the nut. In the end, I ended up removing the 5lb weight near the oil pan. At this time, one of the exhaust headers has only 2 studs attaching it to the engine block instead of 3. I'm checking with ARP to see if they make studs and nuts for our engines. Wish I had taken it to my dealer.
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Old 07-21-2002, 02:17 AM   #20
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I just installed the sti mounts on a friends car, and a lightweight flywheel & clutch. You should use jack stands and not ramps because it takes the weight off the suspension & gives you more room to work under the sway bar. Definately use some type of penetrating lube on the header nuts and it's a snap.
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Old 07-21-2002, 02:49 AM   #21
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Thanks Tim. I'll try using some jackstands next time. I was just worried that all the tugging and pulling I'd be doing underneath the car might not be safe with jackstands. BTW, where did you place the jackstands? Near the the stock jacking points?
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Old 07-21-2002, 02:19 PM   #22
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I'm getting ready to install both the STI engine and tranny mounts on my BD GT. Does anyone have any pictures/instructions on the how-to of this process? Appreciate any assist.

Thanks,
Dale
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Old 07-21-2002, 03:39 PM   #23
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ya put the jack stands where the jack would go.
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Old 07-21-2002, 11:40 PM   #24
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Tim,
I know where the OEM jack goes I'm worried about bending the jack points since the jackstands have flat supports as opposed to the slotted OEM jack.
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Old 07-22-2002, 07:37 AM   #25
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SUBIETONIC

go to www.scoobymods.com and do a search for sti engine mounts...You'll find great instuctions and some really helpful pictures.

-Terry
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