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Old 05-10-2002, 10:17 AM   #1
8Complex

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Default Upgraded valve springs & retainers?

Anyone know any other source then Cobb for sets of springs and/or retainers? I've been thinking about sending out springs to see if I can find a spring place to make sets for us, but am unsure what type of rates will be needed to work with our config's. I've got a stock set sitting here ready to go, too.

It's been proven that valve float starts occouring on these heads in NA form at around 7000-ish RPM. Personally... I have higher aspirations then NA and a 7k redline. I know the pressure on the backside of the valves with an turbo setup will cause them to float that much easier, so it's just a solution that I think a lot more RS-T's should be thinking about.

I would love to know that my valves won't be floating until after 9k on 2bar of boost... wouldn't you?

BTW, I am talking SOHC 2.5RS heads.
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Old 05-10-2002, 10:56 AM   #2
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a 9k redline would rock, but we'd need to push a hair more boost, right now, at 6psi, we're riding the bottom of the 74% efficiency line on a T3 60 trim turbo. Maybe 10psi would give a good enough pressure ratio to get some more efficiency out of the compressor. :shrugs:
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Old 05-10-2002, 11:00 AM   #3
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Heh, if you catch me running 9-10krpm redline, then you know I won't be using the teensy T3 cause the bottom end will be built as well.
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Old 05-10-2002, 11:45 AM   #4
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Hey Nick,

I don't know where to look for valve springs, I haven't gotten that far yet. However, if you locate something that you don't need to send out your heads somewhere to fit them (no machining necesary), you could probably ask for 16 more, because I want to play too.

Just for arguements sake, if you wanted to rev the piss out of something, anybody how much more Ti springs cost anyway??? Are they even cost effective compared to the RPM increase of Ti valves?

I have a healthy curiosity, and I have been reading materials books and want to kow the actual vs. theoretical results....

cheeRS,

Greg
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Old 05-10-2002, 11:53 AM   #5
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Nick, are you not satisifed with the COBB valve springs? And IIRC, they ARE titanium, but I could be wrong.

Why are you wanting to try and find a different source for valve springs?

Graham
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Old 05-10-2002, 12:30 PM   #6
8Complex

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I don't think they make Ti springs... I don't think it's a good material for them. Ti valves have the purpose of lower weight, thus they can be changed in direction more easily due to less kinetic energy. Nice idea, damn expensive, though. I believe that Ti's elasticity is very low compared to more common spring materials. Wish I knew what the common spring material was... spring steel has twice the elasiticity of Ti as listed on www.matweb.com (material lookup site).

IIRC, I think there is room for another 1/4" in diameter for springs on the spring seat areas, though we'll need new seats (the shim seat piece) that is a larger diameter. Don't think we'll need to send out for custom machining for almost anything I look at/have made.

Graham - Due to a situation between Cobb and a friend of mine, I will be avoiding giving them any business of mine for quite some time. I'm not at liberty to talk about the situation as it is not my own, however when someone gets screwed around that much, I refuse to respect them any further in some ways. This by no means is intended to insult the intellect in which they spec, test, and produce components, just the particular character of the individuals involved.

If this gets back to Cobb, they will know exactly what I am talking about. It's unfortunate and all considering it makes getting some components a bit tougher, however there are just some situations where principles have to come before desire.

Last edited by 8Complex; 05-10-2002 at 12:39 PM.
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Old 05-10-2002, 12:54 PM   #7
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Titanium has a very high fatigue strengh, and is more elastic than the usual steel springs (looking at suspention springs here). THe spring will be lighter and due to the "springyness" of the Ti (alloy?) used in the spring, the coil for a higher rate spring is used for matching the rate of a steel spring, lowering the amout of material being used making it even lighter.

If we think of the valve spring like a suspention arm (nothing to do with above) and assume that halve of it is being accelerated at a time (one end is effectivly connected ot the valve stem, where as the other is effectivly connected to the spring seat). This could remove more mass needing to be accelerated. Though it is clearly less than the mass of a Ti valve compared to the std. steel piece.

THey make Ti springs for all sorts of things (suspention springs are the rage right now), but I haven't looked for valve springs yet, but I can't imagine that someone hasn't done it yet.

I will look and see if I can find any pages with any "real" info on Ti valve springs.

cheeRS,

Greg

edit: Hmmmmm.... conflicting elasticity, have to look for that little bit too. I was led to believe that this is why the higher rate windings were used for the same spring coefficient of the standard part, and why it was more effective at removing weight than just the lighter material.

edit edit: Talking to a guy about cycle suspentions.

Last edited by Section 8; 05-10-2002 at 01:01 PM.
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Old 05-12-2002, 12:42 PM   #8
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Bump.
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Old 05-12-2002, 06:50 PM   #9
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Mmmm, automatic with a 8grand redline...heh heh heh. *bump*
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Old 05-12-2002, 08:52 PM   #10
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I think crower makes upgraded springs. I'll have to check and see where my boss got his.
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Old 05-12-2002, 09:28 PM   #11
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Well look at that... yes they do. Hmmmmm...

And a cookie for Ben - http://www.sweetroll.com/cookie.jpg

Last edited by 8Complex; 05-12-2002 at 09:44 PM.
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Old 05-12-2002, 09:37 PM   #12
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So do I get a cookie? I prefer Peanut butter PuhPuhPuleeeeeze
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Old 05-12-2002, 10:29 PM   #13
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haha, you don't want peanut butter from nick
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Old 05-13-2002, 05:08 PM   #14
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Arrow Nick, We can get the keepers, retainers, and everything you need for your heads!

Just give Byron a call at 562-856-2613, or you can reach me at 562-824-7070, or e-mail at BSpecUSA@aol.com

Let us know what you need and we'll get you some prices and eta's for all. By the way, it was a pleasure meeting you at ROTW last week!

Vickey, www.B-SpecUSA.com
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Old 05-13-2002, 05:43 PM   #15
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Default Re: Nick, We can get the keepers, retainers, and everything you need for your heads!

I found PDF's of Crower's catalog on their site, so I'll be comparing them to the stock springs and see if I can find anything near what we have currently. Hopefully so because off-the-shelf sounds much better to me then custom-specced pieces.

Quote:
Originally posted by B-SpecUSA
By the way, it was a pleasure meeting you at ROTW last week!
Heh, wish I could say the same, but I haven't left Illinois for the past 3-4 weeks.
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Old 05-13-2002, 07:31 PM   #16
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Mmmmmm Succulent Peanut Butter cookie Arrghhhhhgarghhhhhh
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Old 05-13-2002, 08:55 PM   #17
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Well, I talked to Crower and Honda sets are $427 and they have no application they know of for the Subarus yet. That means tooling costs + who knows what else. Gack... every day I want to sell this car more and more. :-/
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Old 05-13-2002, 09:07 PM   #18
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Dont lose hope young subaru Jedi. The boost is strong in you're scooby.
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Old 05-14-2002, 11:32 AM   #19
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Does anyone have experience with the SOHC Legacy turbo heads? I don't wonder if those springs/retainers/seats will work on the SOHC RS heads. They are both off of an EJ-series motor, after all...
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Old 05-14-2002, 08:31 PM   #20
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The SOHC Legacy turbo heads had hydraulic lifters, hence no exchangability. Thanks to Dale Teague of Teague's Auto for that info.

I am looking into another possibility... what I have discovered tonite is very interesting, though.

Last edited by 8Complex; 05-14-2002 at 08:40 PM.
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Old 05-15-2002, 02:10 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by 8Complex
Gack... every day I want to sell this car more and more. :-/
I think you might have to realize that

a) stock runs best
b) don't run so much boost
c) Buy from Cobb if you really want this parts
d) your going to have to spend way too much money
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Old 05-15-2002, 10:06 AM   #22
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Actually, I have to check one thing, but I think I may be able to upgrade the valve springs to higher-rated ones for about $100. And if all else fails... I have a seperate plan that'll cost about $35-50.

BTW, stock may run best, but it's all about the speed at times. If I wanted fast & stock, I woulda bought a Camaro.
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Old 05-15-2002, 01:03 PM   #23
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Have a Nice Day? Hmmm.......

8: Sorry for mixing you up with someone else. At the Rim, I was talking with Alex and Nick(?) -- thought it was you. In any event, we do have a source for the parts you are asking about. If you want, e-mail us directly with your list, and we'll get back to you with prices and availability. Vickey, BSpecUSA@aol.com
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Old 05-15-2002, 09:04 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by 8Complex
BTW, stock may run best, but it's all about the speed at times. If I wanted fast & stock, I woulda bought a Camaro.
I believe it is called Crapmaro not camaro. Nick did you figure out the returnline for the oilpan? Bump for free
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Old 05-16-2002, 03:04 AM   #25
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Default Re: Nick, We can get the keepers, retainers, and everything you need for your heads!

Quote:
Originally posted by B-SpecUSA
Just give Byron a call at 562-856-2613, or you can reach me at 562-824-7070, or e-mail at BSpecUSA@aol.com

Let us know what you need and we'll get you some prices and eta's for all.
Vickey,
and why, would anyone in their proper state of mind buy from your establishment?

anyways, back on topic, are the ej20 turbo retainers and springs the same as the ej25 sohc in size and shape?
If so, couldnt we use those in the ej25 heads?
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