Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Thursday August 28, 2014
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Home Registration is free! Visit the NASIOC Store NASIOC Rules Search Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Calendar Archive NASIOC Upgrade Garage Logout
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC General > Newbies & FAQs

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-05-2009, 11:11 PM   #1
juvenescence
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 210241
Join Date: May 2009
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: NYC
Default what do I need to hit 250whp?

Yeah, I'm probably going to get bashed for this, but oh well. I still would like for some informative posts though.


1. HP at the WHEELS (whp) or hp at the CRANK (chp)?

WHP

2. What type of dyno are you going to be shooting for this number on?
Dynojet?

3. If possible, tell us what shop it is. Someone may know how high or low that particular dyno reads.
Either Innovative or Precision, they seem to be the closest ones that are recommended.

4. Where do you live? If not a well known city, what is the elevation?
NYC

5. What kind of gas will you be using? (octane level)
93

6. Are you opposed to a FMIC?
I'd prefer not to install an FMIC at this point.

Currently, the mods that my car has at this point are:
-AEM short ram
-Gutted stock uppipe
-Megan downpipe
-SRS 3" catback.

What might be the next upgrade(s) I should go for in order to achieve that number?
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
juvenescence is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2009, 11:13 PM   #2
Jett_WRX
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 136483
Join Date: Jan 2007
Chapter/Region: W. Canada
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Vehicle:
2007 WRX VF-39'd
05' 600RR 08' Ducati 1098

Default

vf39?
Jett_WRX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2009, 11:15 PM   #3
Defiant Autospeed
Vendor
 
Member#: 155450
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Austin/Beverly 2 of us now!
Vehicle:
2007 FXT
WRB

Default

On a 4EAT you will need a little more than a 5MT so...

TD05-16G 7cm
565cc injectors
pump
STI tmic
up pipe
turboback
tune for @16PSI. No need to run more than that for this power level.


There is a VERY high likelyhood someone is going to come in talking about their stage 2 car making over 250whp. Ignore them, as they are likely not taking into account (or even bothering to read) that you have an automatic, or they have a 2.5L motor, or they simply are speaking out of their hind 1/4s Your 2.0L motor wont hit 250 or anywhere near it on the stock turbo without meth injection, a big intercooler and a LOT of boost.

Skip a VFxx series turbo as they are sluggish to spool compared to the mitsu based units, with an automatic you want every bit of response that you can get out of the car. I would also suggest having your exh manifold and whatever turbo you get ported/polished. Normally I would suggest a better designed aftermarket up pipe, but for this power level goal, there is no need for it. Save your money there.
Defiant Autospeed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2009, 11:16 PM   #4
rexman2002
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 140244
Join Date: Feb 2007
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Chicago
Vehicle:
02 bugeye
"stare ale jare"

Default

vf23/30/34/39
rexman2002 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2009, 11:19 PM   #5
Defiant Autospeed
Vendor
 
Member#: 155450
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Austin/Beverly 2 of us now!
Vehicle:
2007 FXT
WRB

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rexman2002 View Post
vf23/30/34/39

The VF23 is a vastly different performing turbo than the 30/34/39/43/48 which are all very close to identical.
Defiant Autospeed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2009, 11:26 PM   #6
rexman2002
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 140244
Join Date: Feb 2007
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Chicago
Vehicle:
02 bugeye
"stare ale jare"

Default

yes, but wouldn't he be able to still hit his goal of ~250whp with the vf23 on a dyno jet. Dynojests are generally higher reading dynos. My car dyno'd at 230whp-240 on one (tdo4 @16psi), mt car though.
rexman2002 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2009, 11:26 PM   #7
bugeye4life
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 146328
Join Date: Apr 2007
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: allentown PA
Vehicle:
07 sti
username is now invalid

Default

i don't know much about 4 eat but don't you think it could be done on stock turbo?
bugeye4life is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2009, 11:28 PM   #8
Defiant Autospeed
Vendor
 
Member#: 155450
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Austin/Beverly 2 of us now!
Vehicle:
2007 FXT
WRB

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rexman2002 View Post
yes, but wouldn't he be able to still hit his goal of ~250whp with the vf23 on a dyno jet. Dynojests are generally higher reading dynos. My car dyno'd at 235whp-240 on one (tdo4 @16psi), mt car though.

Oh easily. The VF23 makes more power than the 30/34/39/43/etc.

I was just pointing out the difference. Some people would read that and think they were all the same.



I recommended the 16G over it as they are much faster responding turbos, and he has the mushiness of the auto tranny already killing him.
Defiant Autospeed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2009, 11:29 PM   #9
Jubert69
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 167739
Join Date: Dec 2007
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: CT
Vehicle:
04 WRX
ej207 spec C 18g

Default

On a dynojet, I think a 39 would be sufficient. But I never dyno'd my car when it was a 4EAT so Defiant Autospeed would know best since he has one.
Jubert69 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2009, 11:30 PM   #10
constantino7491
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 187358
Join Date: Aug 2008
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Palm Beach/Miami, FL
Vehicle:
08 BMW 328

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bugeye4life View Post
i don't know much about 4 eat but don't you think it could be done on stock turbo?
not w/o meth and a lot of other mods that wouldn't be what i think you're looking for (notice i say I THINK YOU'RE LOOKING FOR because that's the impression your post left on me, i might be wrong though)
constantino7491 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2009, 11:31 PM   #11
Jubert69
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 167739
Join Date: Dec 2007
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: CT
Vehicle:
04 WRX
ej207 spec C 18g

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bugeye4life View Post
i don't know much about 4 eat but don't you think it could be done on stock turbo?
From my experience of swapping my 4EAT to 5MT, the power change is drastic. It's a totally different car.
Jubert69 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2009, 11:34 PM   #12
Defiant Autospeed
Vendor
 
Member#: 155450
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Austin/Beverly 2 of us now!
Vehicle:
2007 FXT
WRB

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jubert69 View Post
On a dynojet, I think a 39 would be sufficient. But I never dyno'd my car when it was a 4EAT so Defiant Autospeed would know best since he has one.

30 would definitely be sufficient.

Its not about that. Its about how sluggish the IHI turbos are compared to the Mitsu based 16G. They both make about the same peak power. The 16G is just a lot snappier. On a 4EAT, he is going to need that.
Defiant Autospeed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2009, 11:34 PM   #13
Gigabelova
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 81409
Join Date: Feb 2005
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia
Vehicle:
2004 Impreza WRX STi
Platinum Silver Metallic

Default

I would say at least a big 16g to get the 250 whp goal on a low reading load bearing dyno.
Gigabelova is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2009, 11:35 PM   #14
Defiant Autospeed
Vendor
 
Member#: 155450
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Austin/Beverly 2 of us now!
Vehicle:
2007 FXT
WRB

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jubert69 View Post
From my experience of swapping my 4EAT to 5MT, the power change is drastic. It's a totally different car.
Unless you do a TQ converter


Stage 2 WRX 5MT VS Stage 2 WRX 4eat = riiiiiiiiight

Stage 2 WRX 5MT VS Stage 1 WRX 4EAT with a TQ converter=

Combine a TQ converter and valve body upgrade and the 4EAT will demolish the 5MT mod for mod. Not even a contest.

And for the record, I dont have a 4EAT. I just know a bunch about making them go

Right now I have a 3MT. Here is how I shift 1-3-5 I have no 2, and cant get it into 4th But there is a JDM V7 6MT on its way as soon as I phone the CC payment in
Defiant Autospeed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2009, 11:47 PM   #15
magicstop
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 206853
Join Date: Mar 2009
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Vehicle:
2004 WRX Wagon
TXS Stage 4

Default

With a vf34, 565cc injectors, walbro pump, txs tmic, txs up pipe, cobb tbe, txs shorty air intake, and a utec, I'm putting down right around 300 whp on a mustang dyno. So, I'd think with vf3x and supporting mods, 25o whp on a dynojet would be easy. Even for a 4eat. No?
magicstop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2009, 11:51 PM   #16
Jubert69
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 167739
Join Date: Dec 2007
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: CT
Vehicle:
04 WRX
ej207 spec C 18g

Default

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?p=8311201
VF39, Dyno Dynamics, 91 Octane

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1235979
I'd take a look at this thread. Lots of mods done, but I'm really confused on why it's reading so low.

EDIT: TC messes with dyno numbers
Jubert69 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2009, 11:58 PM   #17
Mobius118
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 159098
Join Date: Sep 2007
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Gurnee, IL / Madison, WI
Vehicle:
2005 LGT Ltd 5AT OBP
2003 WRX Stg4 PSM- RIP

Default

I would suggest a TC, as that is the only mod I don't have, and am still sluggish like all hell running low 15s/high 14s in the qtr mile. You just can't launch a 4EAT with a VF turbo unless you get a TC. It sure pulls, but very sluggish and I would second the suggestion for the 16G (also heard good things about the HTA68, but never seen what one can do). I will tell you this, that when I got stage 2 with an STI TMIC and swapped my turbo inlet to the silicone one, the car was crazy fast off the line. I was running around a 13.8 in the qtr.
Mobius118 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2009, 12:40 AM   #18
Defiant Autospeed
Vendor
 
Member#: 155450
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Austin/Beverly 2 of us now!
Vehicle:
2007 FXT
WRB

Default

I have seen a bone stock 02 wagon with nothing more than a tq converter pull 13.8 s (ok so technically that means it wasnt bone stock, but you get my point)

What does that tell you about what a TQ converter can do?
Defiant Autospeed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2009, 12:59 AM   #19
xsnapshot
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 170973
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Lincoln, NE
Vehicle:
2004 WRX 4EAT
PSM

Default

Defiant- In your experience how much drive train loss does an aftermarket TC recoup...if any?

I'm running a stage 2 4EAT/EWG/3-port/E85 on 21 psi tapering to 14.5 at redline. I've never been dynoed, but am thinking about the TC for fun's sake. I'd like to think im about equal with a standard off the shelf stage 2 02-05 wrx in power right now.
xsnapshot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2009, 01:25 AM   #20
4eatFp68
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 216913
Join Date: Jul 2009
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Renton, WA
Vehicle:
2002 WRX AUTO
WRB

Default

I've got a 4eat and Im making 255whp and 248tq. My car is open source tuned around 16-17psi. My mod's include:
Hta68 turbo, 650cc injectors, 255 fuel pump, turboxs tmic, turboxs catted stealth exhaust, individia uppipe and 3-port GMS and Hayden 403 tranny cooler.

Looking into doing the tq converter and valve body, next spring.
4eatFp68 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2009, 02:31 AM   #21
iluvdrt
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 46248
Join Date: Oct 2003
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: DRTY Autosports Denver, Co
Vehicle:
2012 outback 2.5
sky blue

Default

I am wondering if the TC and VB would be that noticable on an NA subie?
iluvdrt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2009, 08:36 AM   #22
tallterrorr
*** Banned ***
 
Member#: 225323
Join Date: Sep 2009
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Vehicle:
2000 CIVIC
Neon/Lime Green w/stripes

Default

250 whp is easy to achieve... with a CIVIC!!!!1
tallterrorr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2009, 08:39 AM   #23
penrod
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 218495
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: FLA West Coast
Vehicle:
2008 WRX Wagon 4EAT
Black

Default

I'm finding it difficult to find much info on modding a 4EAT (2008 WRX/ 2009 2.5i). Where can I get more info on the TC upgrade?

cost?
how it works?
what difference it makes on an otherwise stock car?

I did a search, but it seems like every single post has the words 'torque converter' in them.

Thank you for your help.
penrod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2009, 08:49 AM   #24
SS/GNX
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 216014
Join Date: Jul 2009
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Chicago's South Suburbs
Vehicle:
2005 WRX STi
CGM

Default

I may not know ***** about Subies but I do know that a torque converter in an automatic turbo car can make a HUGE difference.

Some turbos require more stall to get them to spool up properly. Again, not knowing what the hell stall is in a 4EAT, I couldn't begin to tell you what stall you would need, nor do I know what diameter the stock converter is and the availability of smaller diameter converters.

In my GN setup, I bought a 3200 stall 9.5" converter and ran that with the stock GN turbo! Tires would IGNITE off the line, it was actually too much stall for that little turbo. Then bought a ball bearing 61mm turbo and everything was PERFECT. = )
SS/GNX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2009, 08:53 AM   #25
scubywagon
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 65967
Join Date: Jul 2004
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Florida
Vehicle:
2004 WRX WGN 2.5
Java Black Pearl

Default

with proper engine management, vf39 or 16g(i also agree 16g is the better choice) upgraded fuel pump and supporting injectors you should be able to get there. My one question about the torque convertor upgrade would be the cost effectiveness of doing that vs. doing a 5spd swap. Not sure on that as I have a manual so I've never even thought about looking into the cost of the torque convertor or vavle body upgrade.....my 04 wagon with vf39,turbo back, intake, sti pinks,fuel pump, front mount and utec put down 290hp/280tq when it still had the 2 liter in it.
scubywagon is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Dyno Numbers and you- What do you need to hit XXX hp? Defiant Autospeed Newbies & FAQs 562 08-17-2014 03:58 PM
Iím flying to Orlando. What do I need to do in the airport and what to bring home? KingGalantVr4 Off-Topic 37 01-14-2010 11:49 PM
What do you need to do to have constant voltage to fuel pump? csugden Electrical & Lighting 2 10-31-2009 10:39 AM
What do I need to hit 350-375 HP? pipchick Newbies & FAQs 49 08-15-2009 04:04 PM
I want to do my own 30,000 mile service, what do I need to do? Drav Service & Maintenance 12 06-20-2005 06:43 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:04 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2014 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2014, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.