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Old 10-08-2009, 09:38 PM   #1
RichM
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Default VW GTD might be coming to the USA


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Prior to the U.S. launch of the Volkwagen Golf MK VI, a few months back rumors emerged that the Americans were going to get a crack at the GTD version of the hatchback. For those unfamiliar with the GTD, it's essentially the much loved GTI but with a 170 hp version of the 2.0-liter TDI diesel. Unfortunately, when we got the details on the Golf lineup last week, the GTD wasn't included. While in Germany this week to drive the new Golf lineup, we spoke with VW of America product planner Andres Valbuena about the GTD's fortunes, and the news is promising.

According to Valbuena, while the GTD didn't make the cut for launch, it is still under consideration. In fact the GTD could arrive within the next 18 months. Originally, it was speculated that the GTD would likely carry the existing 140 horsepower diesel along with all of the other good bits. Valbuena tells us that if they do offer the GTD in the U.S., VW will do it right and bring the high output 170 hp engine.

One car that's definitely coming is the Jetta TDI Cup model. This is essentially a street legal version of the race car but without the race bits like the roll cage. It will get the same front fascia available from the VW performance parts catalog, along with the bigger brakes, suspension upgrades and interior bits from the GLI sedan. Unfortunately, the TDI cup replica keeps the standard 140 hp engine instead of the 170 hp unit in the race cars. The cup car will probably have its public debut at LA Auto Show in December prior to going on sale in January.
http://www.autoblog.com/2009/10/08/v...eplica-coming/
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Old 10-08-2009, 10:29 PM   #2
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so it's the GTi, but worse. Thanks VW...
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Old 10-08-2009, 10:44 PM   #3
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so it's the GTi, but worse. Thanks VW...
Yeah, I'd take the GTI over this any day. If I were going to settle for the diesel, I'd get a Jetta Sportwagen and get extra space/practicality if I'm already taking the fun engine out. Hell, I'd probably get the 2.0T in the Sportwagen instead of the TDI because the 2.0T is such a fun engine.
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Old 10-08-2009, 11:44 PM   #4
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no it won't
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Old 10-09-2009, 12:05 AM   #5
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Yeah, I'd take the GTI over this any day. If I were going to settle for the diesel, I'd get a Jetta Sportwagen and get extra space/practicality if I'm already taking the fun engine out. Hell, I'd probably get the 2.0T in the Sportwagen instead of the TDI because the 2.0T is such a fun engine.
............
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Old 10-09-2009, 08:10 AM   #6
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The stupid is strong in this thread...
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Old 10-09-2009, 09:20 AM   #7
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^ I agree. The TDI motor rocks.
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Old 10-09-2009, 10:42 AM   #8
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Old 10-09-2009, 11:00 AM   #9
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Here's how I see it. I seriously doubt they'll bring it unless they intend to EPA test the 170HP engine for other purposes... for the Passat and Tiguan or A4 perhaps. If that's the case then bring it on.

The new golf already comes with the sport suspension (Is that the same as the GTI?) and is priced high enough ($26,000 if you option it up!). GTD would truly be a niche product due to the pricing and would compete with the A3 TDI. That A3 is reportedly selling well and supposedly they've sold six months of inventory. However, selling out the paltry dealer allocation we'll get in the US by no means ensures a business success for Audi because they're sending so few to begin with, which leads me to...

As it is, we're going to have an extreme shortage of the 140HP Golf TDIs for a long time. Global demand has trumped the relatively minor US launch and here we are waiting.. and waiting.. and waiting.. The dealers are ready (to sell, never to service!), the customers have been ready for years. VW's production line is not.
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Old 10-09-2009, 05:51 PM   #10
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As it is, we're going to have an extreme shortage of the 140HP Golf TDIs for a long time. Global demand has trumped the relatively minor US launch and here we are waiting.. and waiting.. and waiting.. The dealers are ready (to sell, never to service!), the customers have been ready for years. VW's production line is not.
Supply is largely dependent on gas prices and thereby demand, or so I've been told by various VW dealers when I researched buying one. The last dealer lot I visited in Chicago had four or five of them so they're not impossible to find.

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Hell, I'd probably get the 2.0T in the Sportwagen instead of the TDI because the 2.0T is such a fun engine.
Word. And the 2.0T still gets ~33 mpg HWY. I think I'd sacrifice the few MPGs for the performance - not that the TDI is a dog though.
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Old 10-09-2009, 07:47 PM   #11
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33vs50 mpg on the highway...yea I think I'd sacrifice the speed of my GTI for that as a dd...especially figuring what it'll be capable with a tune...probably just as fast as a stock GTI, cross my fingers for it to be a little faster.
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Old 10-09-2009, 11:24 PM   #12
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DivineStrike, "mpg" is a fallacy. When you look at things as "gal/100mi", the GTI is 3.03gal/100mi versus the TDI of 2.00gal/100mi. At 10,000 mi/year & $3/gal fuel, you'll save $309/year.

By the time you've tuned your diesel, you've eaten up the "fuel savings". Top Gear is right. Diesel makes sense in cars that aren't supposed to be fun to drive.
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Old 10-10-2009, 07:48 AM   #13
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It's not necessarily about how much money you save but how long it'll take to fill up and with the fact that diesel right now is finally just about even with regular fuel (i've driven going on more than 20k this year. estimating about avg of 2.35 per gallon(premium) and an average of 26 mpg (est) I'd have spent $1,807 in fuel costs vs avg 37 mpg (maybe more) with the same driving and 2.45 per gal...I'd spend $1,324) per year that's almost 500 in savings per year. so about $40 per month and you'd make up the cost of the tune in a little over a year. Assuming TDI tunes are the same 600 as the GTI tunes are

and on a tirp to maryland from here, depending on the size of the tank and getting 40+mpg I might not even need to fill up.
Sure I can get great economy with the GTI, I've gotten 34mpg to one tank but that was with a lot of traffic cruising 65-75mph and 90deg temps (that was on a trip to pasadena, md after i stopped in VA to get gas, after pasadena went rt 50 to ocean city.) without traffic it'd drop a couple.

Last edited by DivineStrike; 10-10-2009 at 08:34 AM.
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Old 10-10-2009, 10:17 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by DivineStrike View Post
It's not necessarily about how much money you save but how long it'll take to fill up and with the fact that diesel right now is finally just about even with regular fuel (i've driven going on more than 20k this year. estimating about avg of 2.35 per gallon(premium) and an average of 26 mpg (est) I'd have spent $1,807 in fuel costs vs avg 37 mpg (maybe more) with the same driving and 2.45 per gal...I'd spend $1,324) per year that's almost 500 in savings per year. so about $40 per month and you'd make up the cost of the tune in a little over a year. Assuming TDI tunes are the same 600 as the GTI tunes are

and on a tirp to maryland from here, depending on the size of the tank and getting 40+mpg I might not even need to fill up.
Sure I can get great economy with the GTI, I've gotten 34mpg to one tank but that was with a lot of traffic cruising 65-75mph and 90deg temps (that was on a trip to pasadena, md after i stopped in VA to get gas, after pasadena went rt 50 to ocean city.) without traffic it'd drop a couple.
Diesel will be more expensive than gasoline again when winter gets into full swing. FWIW, it's already twenty cents more expensive than 87 is here.

My Civic gets 43 mpg but I'd give it up in a heartbeat for something like the 2.0T that's much more fun to drive and still gets good MPGs. The fun factor is worth the few dollars/year I'd be saving with the gas(diesel) sipper.
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Old 10-10-2009, 10:23 AM   #15
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For DD w/ sum fun: TDI/gtd version of golf

For Fun: Bike (which I will have within a month), Old Tacoma, and a nice rwd sport car.

I'd still take the TDI to the track too lol

GTI takes premium btw so diesel's about the same price sometimes cheaper

Best mileage i ever got in my Focus was 33 and that was with premium.
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Old 10-12-2009, 12:07 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by quentinberg007 View Post
DivineStrike, "mpg" is a fallacy. When you look at things as "gal/100mi", the GTI is 3.03gal/100mi versus the TDI of 2.00gal/100mi. At 10,000 mi/year & $3/gal fuel, you'll save $309/year.
I agree that diesels don't make sense for someone driving 10,000 miles/year. My office recently moved, and I'm looking at ~25k miles/year. I'd consider a diesel for that purpose. For me, it's not *all* about the economics, either, I would definitely feel better burning less fuel with an obscenely long commute.
As for the fun factor, I had an Alfa Romeo Coupe with a diesel that I thought was very fun on the twisty roads of Tuscany. The brakes were more than adequate, and it cornered just fine at 7/10's.
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Old 10-12-2009, 12:36 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by DivineStrike View Post
It's not necessarily about how much money you save but how long it'll take to fill up
What?



Quote:
Originally Posted by DivineStrike View Post
and with the fact that diesel right now is finally just about even with regular fuel (i've driven going on more than 20k this year. estimating about avg of 2.35 per gallon(premium) and an average of 26 mpg (est) I'd have spent $1,807 in fuel costs vs avg 37 mpg (maybe more) with the same driving and 2.45 per gal...I'd spend $1,324) per year that's almost 500 in savings per year. so about $40 per month and you'd make up the cost of the tune in a little over a year. Assuming TDI tunes are the same 600 as the GTI tunes are
You're assuming that you're still going to get 37mpg after you tune the diesel to dump more fuel into the engine to the tune of two seconds off the 0-60 time (assuming you intend to make up the performance deficit).
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Old 10-12-2009, 12:42 PM   #18
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What?


not too sure what you're not getting there...you go further on a tank of gas when you get better mileage...500mi a tank vs 330 a tank. it's more convenient


You're assuming that you're still going to get 37mpg after you tune the diesel to dump more fuel into the engine to the tune of two seconds off the 0-60 time (assuming you intend to make up the performance deficit).

yea not too sure how the tune will effect it but I know with my GTI I get better mpg with in the 93 octane mode than I do in Stock mode.
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Old 10-12-2009, 12:52 PM   #19
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Have any of you even driven a car equipped with a modern turbo diesel engine? These aren't the old dogs they once were. Those cars are a blast to drive, and even when thrashed around in a spirited fashion, fuel consumption will still be considerably lower than what a comparable Otto motor could do.
I can see the the idea behind a sporty Diesel. And I want one!
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Old 10-12-2009, 01:10 PM   #20
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Diesel will be more expensive than gasoline again when winter gets into full swing. FWIW, it's already twenty cents more expensive than 87 is here.


Well, the higher price of diesel is politically motivated. The fuel itself is much cheaper to refine than gasoline, but the taxes placed on diesel negate that advantage.
Unfortunately the future of US transportation is largely influenced by the corn/ethanol lobby(imbeciles) and the hybrid "fad", so I don't foresee taxes on diesel easing up, which is a shame. Europeans have been driving 40-60 mpg cars for years without using any of that hybrid stuff...

Last edited by Meatfoam; 10-12-2009 at 02:23 PM.
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Old 10-12-2009, 06:01 PM   #21
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Have any of you even driven a car equipped with a modern turbo diesel engine? These aren't the old dogs they once were. Those cars are a blast to drive, and even when thrashed around in a spirited fashion, fuel consumption will still be considerably lower than what a comparable Otto motor could do.
I can see the the idea behind a sporty Diesel. And I want one!
I've driven the new Jetta TDI. It's got some grunt, but you won't be confusing it with a sports car, that's for sure. I thought my gf's '08 Jetta 2.5 was more fun to drive.
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Old 10-12-2009, 06:28 PM   #22
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Well, I am not neccessarily talking about the engines available in the US. Those are solely built and tuned for the purpose of fuel economy, except maybe the 335d. There's some fast diesels from Germany, which are set up to be sporty. The tuning aftermarket for diesels is HUGE over there.
If you're in Europe, rent a Diesel and see for yourself...

Last edited by Meatfoam; 10-12-2009 at 06:38 PM.
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Old 10-12-2009, 07:07 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Meatfoam View Post
[/font]

Well, the higher price of diesel is politically motivated. The fuel itself is much cheaper to refine than gasoline, but the taxes placed on diesel negate that advantage.
Unfortunately the future of US transportation is largely influenced by the corn/ethanol lobby(imbeciles) and the hybrid "fad", so I don't foresee taxes on diesel easing up, which is a shame. Europeans have been driving 40-60 mpg cars for years without using any of that hybrid stuff...
The diesel pricing is also a regional thing. #2 has been 20-25 cents cheaper than 87 octane in socal for most of 2009. Compare it to the premium that the GTI requires and an even better savings.
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Old 10-12-2009, 10:11 PM   #24
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yea not too sure how the tune will effect it but I know with my GTI I get better mpg with in the 93 octane mode than I do in Stock mode.
That's because the timing is advanced to take advantage of better fuel. You can't adjust the timing in a diesel. Tuning a diesel consists of turning up the boost and dumping in more fuel.
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