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Old 12-19-2009, 07:21 PM   #276
Ralliart4
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interesting work guys this really is awesome... can i please have a link to the map so i can try to take a look.

You can use the stock throttle stopper to move the plate open to that 1-5% as mentioned most GP.n subaru cable drive cars can do it. It is the method used by PossumLink and Pectel.

For real please send me a link im interested.
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Old 12-19-2009, 07:45 PM   #277
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Look under tuning discussion over @ romraider.
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Old 12-19-2009, 08:11 PM   #278
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SOOBYNOOBY View Post
Thanks again Jerod oh and the intake is for sale 25 bucks hahaha
Speaking of Stock tunes and ****ty intakes

anytime
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Old 12-20-2009, 05:46 AM   #279
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Originally Posted by scottyhall View Post
Look under tuning discussion over @ romraider.
I looked over at romraider and the only thing i saw was the 'Group-n rom -extra definitions' thread.

Please im asking for some help on where the actual file is so i can take a look at it.
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Old 12-20-2009, 07:16 AM   #280
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Lemme find them... I will have to look on my laptop. (on iPhone now). PM me your email address....
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Old 12-20-2009, 08:50 AM   #281
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You have PM sir
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Old 12-20-2009, 09:15 PM   #282
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralliart4 View Post
interesting work guys this really is awesome... can i please have a link to the map so i can try to take a look.

You can use the stock throttle stopper to move the plate open to that 1-5% as mentioned most GP.n subaru cable drive cars can do it. It is the method used by PossumLink and Pectel.

For real please send me a link im interested.
Here: http://www.romraider.com/forum/topic5327-195.html

There are a few other maps posted in this thread.
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Old 12-21-2009, 08:23 AM   #283
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Ok guys so the idea is to load these deffs onto my existing flash and then play the values to see what best fits ones current setup?

Sounds like a great idea to me if i can manage to get that anti-lag to work on an alternate switch that would be the ideal setting....
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Old 12-21-2009, 06:04 PM   #284
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Why does everyone want anti-lag so bad?

I hope everyone is fully aware of the results of using anti-lag as well as the fact that this isn't even true anti-lag, as it lacks the hardware involved in making it truly 100% functional.

? Hope yall have deep pockets.

-Jerod
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Old 12-21-2009, 06:55 PM   #285
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If your going from a roll Brake boost works good instead of antilag...Brakes are easier to replace than valves ect...lol... I wonder what kind of stuff mick see's from his anti lag? From his teardowns it doesn't look like its killed anything on his setup yet... Keep in mind mick tears it down often, so much different than most people who want it to last 100,000 miles....
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Old 12-21-2009, 08:19 PM   #286
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JSarv View Post
Why does everyone want anti-lag so bad?


-Jerod

I don't really care why. If they want it, give it to them. Not doing so would be against the whole purpose behind the open source movement. It's not my belief that we should protect people from themselves. If it turns out to be a mistake and it isn't used properly, then they'll learn the lesson. Just like tuning their cars. If they screw it up, THEY screwed it up. You didn't make them tune their car, you didn't make them run anti-lag, you just made it available to the masses so that those who really need it, can use it.

I like it for racing applications, but would never put it on a street car unless I wanted to get a lot of attention.
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Old 12-21-2009, 08:20 PM   #287
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oh btw, we just hit 580whp (562whp SAE Corrected) on an employee's car with this SD ROM. Car runs great.
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Old 12-21-2009, 08:25 PM   #288
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This antilag is not going to tear up parts IMO. It's not violent at all. It does however work. It makes more boost with LC and the boost stays up on shifts. When you set it up to enable at say 5000 and disable at 3000 it's unobtrusive daily driving with a street car, it never comes on. It would be interesting to see how it reacts with the throttle plate adjusted open more, I haven't tried that yet.
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Old 12-21-2009, 09:49 PM   #289
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I don't really care why. If they want it, give it to them. Not doing so would be against the whole purpose behind the open source movement. It's not my belief that we should protect people from themselves. If it turns out to be a mistake and it isn't used properly, then they'll learn the lesson. Just like tuning their cars. If they screw it up, THEY screwed it up. You didn't make them tune their car, you didn't make them run anti-lag, you just made it available to the masses so that those who really need it, can use it.

I like it for racing applications, but would never put it on a street car unless I wanted to get a lot of attention.
I agree only to the extent that MOST DO NOT realize exactly how anti-lag works and WHY its bad. Sure its great for race applications used only on very rare occasion.

The problem lies within the "forum effect" - Have you ever noticed how many guys rip up and down on the ej205? Its junk? Really?
So you are going to have the guys that start stupid threads about how the SD anti-lag grenaded their engines/turbo's/headers are junk because they wont take anti-lag ect.

The point I'm getting at, is guys will start to run this and one by one turbo's will start to fail, valves will be burnt. Exhaust gaskets will be blown out. Melted pistons from pre-ignition <-- Also tune related. Busted ring lands <-- Also tune related.

Even though its not my problem if other destroy their ****, I would like to make a very solid point that anti-lag is not something to play with on a daily driven car. Plain AND simple. Especially if you don't enjoy replacing expensive parts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxwell Power View Post
oh btw, we just hit 580whp (562whp SAE Corrected) on an employee's car with this SD ROM. Car runs great.
I take it you got the MAP sensor lined out?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 69subaru360 View Post
This antilag is not going to tear up parts IMO. It's not violent at all. It does however work. It makes more boost with LC and the boost stays up on shifts. When you set it up to enable at say 5000 and disable at 3000 it's unobtrusive daily driving with a street car, it never comes on. It would be interesting to see how it reacts with the throttle plate adjusted open more, I haven't tried that yet.
You NEED to have a complete understanding of anit-lag and WHY you are building boost. Boost is not just a result of moved air, it is a result of resistance of air. Simply bumping ISCV duty to 100% can actually create boost, as it allows the engine enough air to produce enough exhaust to create enough airflow that it becomes restricted by not only the throttle plate, but the slow moving valves.

Anti-lag's main purpose is to move the combustion into the exhaust stream, now correct me if I'm wrong, but we strive to create the most indestructable pistons/rods/rings/head gaskets/wrist pins/head bolts to keep from damaging internal components from the combustion process, do we not?

So now your telling me your exhaust valve is capable of withstanding a major combustion event (possibly while its open) several times? Your aftermarket header that is crack prone to begin with is going to withstand the pressures of combustion? Exhaust gaskets as well? How about that expensive turbo, its not designed for 2000*F + egt's...

Our anti-lag SEEMS like it is soft, but look through your AL timing, -20... Given I've seen Honda's run as much as -40* of timing, -20 is still pretty bad considering that by the time its lit off the exhaust valve is starting to open. So now you have a flame front exiting the cylinder crossing over an exhaust valve. EGT's do not compare to in cylinder combustion temperatures that are now no longer in the cylinder.

Sure you make boost, thats the whole point of anti-lag, but if you think that our anti-lag is not "harmful" or "bad enough" to cause damage, you will become a starting statistic.

I ran it as a test, however I had my timing set to 10* advanced so I did not get any anti-lag effect. You won't find me running it on my engine for any reason what so ever. No reason.

If you want to turn heads, make enough power to do a 2nd gear rolling burnout without any aid (no brake boosting, no AL, nothing - plain and simple boost) That will turn heads when you step your AWD Subaru to the side at 30mph in a roll..

I'm sorry I'm just very against anyone that does not rebuild their engine on a consistent basis running it. I'm also against those who do not have a complete thorough understanding of whats happening and why, and the ultimate end result reguardless of how "effect/hard/bad" the anti-lag is.


My .02, it may/may not matter to anyone but myself - but everyone is entitled to an opinion. I have a brother with a Civic and the ability to run 2step and anti-lag on his boosted F20B, he of all people refuses to run it (blew my mind honestly).

He could probably explain exactly to the T a scientifically/mechanically correct explanation of what is happening and why.

If you run it on the street to turn heads or be cool, your running it for all the wrong reasons.

/rant

And none of my statements are directed at any single person (may seem that way but they are not). I'm going to put the kid to bed and find all the crap I can find about post tdc ignition and post links so you can see the damages that can/will be caused.
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Old 12-21-2009, 10:05 PM   #290
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Old 12-21-2009, 11:53 PM   #291
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JSarv View Post
Why does everyone want anti-lag so bad?

I hope everyone is fully aware of the results of using anti-lag as well as the fact that this isn't even true anti-lag, as it lacks the hardware involved in making it truly 100% functional.

? Hope yall have deep pockets.

-Jerod
I have run antilag on two cars that i have owned previously.. one was a Ralliart N ecu and the other was a motec M800 unit. I want to see how this ecu based antilag works for autox use. Yep its expensive and with the long flow paths of a subaru can lead to lots more problems than turbo and manifold wear because its literally wraps around the engine so i am well aware. I just took a look at a N12 and a N14 rally car and was really impressed at the idea of stock ECU based electronic anti-lag. I was actually looking to buy a 44S to support my wanting to have these features for my competitive races not for street use.

Keep in mind not every setup uses the aux air or external throttle open method. Link/Possum Bourn and Pectel use the incremental open method with the throttle body stopper bolt to keep it open to 1-5% as described. It can be done.

Remember WRC cars have an engine service life of 500-800 competitive miles before rebuild is REQUIRED not suggested. After years of cracked, blown and cycle fatigued mate surfaces trust me i know things can go very bad with this kind of tool.

Last edited by Ralliart4; 12-22-2009 at 12:01 AM.
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Old 12-21-2009, 11:57 PM   #292
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralliart4 View Post
I have run antilag on two cars that i have owned previously.. one was a Ralliart N ecu and the other was a motec M800 unit. I want to see how this ecu based antilag works for autox use. Yep its expensive and with the long flow paths of a subaru can lead to lots more problems than turbo and manifold wear because its literally wraps around the engine so i am well aware. I just took a look at a N12 and a N14 rally car and was really impressed at the idea.

Keep in mind not every setup uses the aux air or external throttle open method. Link/Possum Bourn and Pectel use the incremental open method with the throttle body stopper bolt to keep it open to 1-5% as described. It can be done.
Its a fairly simple anti-lag - Fuel Dump/Retard Ignition (up to -45* I believe)/Fuel Cut/95% ISCV/start over.

That is the just of it. Basically plain jane anti-lag - but with a closed throttle on our cars.

The problem with having a 1-5% TOA minimum is you will be lucky to get your car to idle below 1500-2000 rpms, unless I'm missing something and the ISCV takes car of this issue, which COULD be very true.

Basically the ISCV would drop duty enough to reach your current target idle, but increase to 95% when GPN mode is active...

-Jerod
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Old 12-22-2009, 12:01 AM   #293
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Something else I am a little confused with, target boost/WGDC is set awfully low in this region. I'm curious as to whether there is a GPN comp map for either of these....

^^ Something to look for
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Old 12-22-2009, 12:02 AM   #294
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Originally Posted by Ralliart4 View Post
Ok guys so the idea is to load these deffs onto my existing flash and then play the values to see what best fits ones current setup?

Sounds like a great idea to me if i can manage to get that anti-lag to work on an alternate switch that would be the ideal setting....
Again JSarv is this what i do to gain access to the Gp.n features?
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Old 12-22-2009, 12:04 AM   #295
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Originally Posted by JSarv View Post
Its a fairly simple anti-lag - Fuel Dump/Retard Ignition (up to -45* I believe)/Fuel Cut/95% ISCV/start over.

That is the just of it. Basically plain jane anti-lag - but with a closed throttle on our cars.

The problem with having a 1-5% TOA minimum is you will be lucky to get your car to idle below 1500-2000 rpms, unless I'm missing something and the ISCV takes car of this issue, which COULD be very true.

Basically the ISCV would drop duty enough to reach your current target idle, but increase to 95% when GPN mode is active...

-Jerod
Damn thats dead man simple... distructive simple ... do you guys have any EGT readings during 'non cyclic' idle?
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Old 12-22-2009, 12:04 AM   #296
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Well if you have the rom and the definitions all the features currently defined are listed.


Mode Byte Must be set to 136 (there are others but that is what I believe is the GPN standard setting)

Your thresholds must also be set to be met.

Everything that is "Group N Mode" is part of the anti-lag. There is base "idle" timing or AL timing for GPN mode. There is fueling for GPN mode.

-Jerod
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Old 12-22-2009, 12:09 AM   #297
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Damn thats dead man simple... distructive simple ... do you guys have any EGT readings during 'non cyclic' idle?
lol Timing can be completely controlled, but fueling is based off of the GPN OL fueling map. So I believe during GPN mode it is locked into Open Loop - forcing the use of that map...

The only time I ran it, I set my timing to around 10* advanced, so technically my car never really "anti-lagged" it just ran like ****. I was only testing for a few things and didn't want it to do its thing, so advancing the timing to a positive number kept things on the "safer" side of things for me.

-jerod
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Old 12-22-2009, 12:09 AM   #298
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Originally Posted by JSarv View Post
Well if you have the rom and the definitions all the features currently defined are listed.


Mode Byte Must be set to 136 (there are others but that is what I believe is the GPN standard setting)

Your thresholds must also be set to be met.

Everything that is "Group N Mode" is part of the anti-lag. There is base "idle" timing or AL timing for GPN mode. There is fueling for GPN mode.

-Jerod
Jerod all i see is the 04 sti hex file and then the xml file for the definitions... which one do i need or do i load both files.

I was under the impression i needed the xml and then adjust but im understanding that i need to load the hex file on my ecu and apply the xml definitions to make it work.

For some reason i can get the hex infomation to come up on my romraider or ecuflash either.
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Old 12-22-2009, 12:17 AM   #299
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Ok..

go here:
http://www.romraider.com/forum/topic360.html

All the way to the bottom - download either metric or standard (whatever you want to use)

Save that to somewhere you know where it is.

Open up romraider and go to ECU Definitions Manager. Click on it and remove anything you see there. Go to Add and find that file you JUST saved.

Once you have that file you downloaded in the ecu definitions manager click apply and save.

Then open your STI Original Rom located here:
http://www.romraider.com/forum/topic5327-15.html
^^ Rom is halfway down - BUT YOU MUST be logged in to see it. Its under my name.

Once you download that open it in Romraider. There you have it.

If you want ecu flash version of it go here:
http://www.romraider.com/forum/topic3808.html

And download either metric or standard (again your preference) and remember where you save that!

Open ecu flash - Go to File - Options - Metadata Directory - FIND where you saved that last file and it should look like this when saved:
C:/ecuflash/subaru

MAYBE not exactly like that but you will save the "subaru" file there.

then you can open that rom in ecuflash.

That help?

-Jerod
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Old 12-22-2009, 12:20 AM   #300
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Ok much more clear now thank you.

I will let you know how it works if i ever get it to work lol.
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