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Old 12-10-2009, 12:11 PM   #176
Ensi
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Dom over at Maxwell Power just finished my tune lastnight on this rom, it feels very very smooth, no dips, surges. Put down 401whp 358trq on my built 2.5 with GT3076r 63 hotside. Just need to get the CEL thing figured out, any updates Andy?
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Old 12-10-2009, 12:17 PM   #177
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ensi View Post
Dom over at Maxwell Power just finished my tune lastnight on this rom, it feels very very smooth, no dips, surges. Put down 401whp 358trq on my built 2.5 with GT3076r 63 hotside. Just need to get the CEL thing figured out, any updates Andy?
Bill is working on something, I'll let you guys know when he's done.
Andy
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Old 12-10-2009, 12:35 PM   #178
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Has anyone tried this rom on ECU's other than 02-03's? Does anyone have a download link for the rom?
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Old 12-10-2009, 04:29 PM   #179
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Has anyone tried this rom on ECU's other than 02-03's? Does anyone have a download link for the rom?
From what I understand, which isn't that much, this rom only works on 02 & 03's cause they use a 16bit ECU.
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Old 12-10-2009, 04:50 PM   #180
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ensi View Post
From what I understand, which isn't that much, this rom only works on 02 & 03's cause they use a 16bit ECU.
Right and wrong.
This rom only works on 16bit ecu's, which are 02-04 USDM WRX ecu's and 01-05ish JDM ecu's.

However, 2004/2005 USDM ecu's used a different flash method, meaning this rom is simply NOT compatible with 04/05 ecu's. I'm not certain about future progress, but 02/03 ecu's can be used in 04/05 WRX's for a fairly cheap price. Not only that if you decide you don't like it, you can always revert back to your 04/05 ecu and sell the 02/03.

-Jerod
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Old 12-10-2009, 05:00 PM   #181
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jerod, is it possible to do a MAF tab data collection while running speed density?

i think it would be interesting to see that.

or are MAFv and MAFg/s parameters not even viewable with this rom loaded?
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Old 12-10-2009, 05:05 PM   #182
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Originally Posted by Phatron View Post
jerod, is it possible to do a MAF tab data collection while running speed density?

i think it would be interesting to see that.

or are MAFv and MAFg/s parameters not even viewable with this rom loaded?
You can log them. They just don't do anything.
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Old 12-10-2009, 05:58 PM   #183
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Yes explain in deraik when I get home

^^ Leaving because that is a direct result of my Blackberry Skillzz.

Ok basically the ecu references the MAF sensor (voltage) converts it to g/s VIA MAF scaling table. This is read and used I believe simply for a CEL.

The way to tune with the maf is:
Find some old logs (CL scaling logs, WOT logs) scale your Speed Density table using my confusing/simple little spread sheet that converts % into load or vice versa.

Once you get this fingered out and a "start up" Speed Density Load Comp table scaled. Go out for a quick drive, log Maf g/s - and current load.

Your maf table MUST be scaled to your previous settings on your maf based tune. Stop and open your log, convert G/S that you scaled to "load" < You will have to do the math, the ecu does not figure load at all based on the maf (anymore)

Once you find your current load vs. your "maf load" figure a % of error. Once you figured the % of error find the PSIA vs RPM @ that point and go to your Speed Density load comp. table and multiply it by that error.

IE: SD is 10% low - 14.7psiA x 3000 RPMS - Go to your Speed Density Comp table and multiply that CELL by 1.10. That should give you identical load to what the maf calls for (or a "closely" known good load.)

To figure load:
Manifold Absolute Pressure (PSIA - Direct if logged)*SD Multiplier - SD offset. This will give you your base load at ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL RPMS for THAT pressure. Rpm's DO NOT effect load at all. NONE.

Then you figure in IAT Comp (VERY important in Speed Density. Simply multiply given load by IAT comp.

Then you have final load for PSIA + (or -) IAT Comp.

I know this isn't what you are asking but I'm typing it again.

My maf v. has only changed VIA Ambient temps. Your not magically going to flow more air. Power comes within the combustion process, making more power on SD rom would simply be due to a few "risky" settings within the rom.

I'm going to have Dwell tested/confirmed tom. afternoon - If our table matches current Dwell tested. ALL 16bit roms will have a definition update with the ability to adjust Dwell.

Andy confirmed that all 16bit roms use the exact table (different values per year (black coil packs vs. grey coil packs) so everyone should technically have the ability to adjust dwell on 16bit roms in the near near future.

-Jerod

Last edited by JSarv; 12-10-2009 at 07:38 PM.
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Old 12-11-2009, 08:27 PM   #184
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FWIW - 4.52v tonight on the MAF.

added dwell up to what I consider a safe maximum and gained a decent amount of power after 5000 rpms..

-Jerod
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Old 12-11-2009, 08:40 PM   #185
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Good job man.. A real pioneer!

C
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Old 12-11-2009, 08:42 PM   #186
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JSarv View Post
FWIW - 4.52v tonight on the MAF.
With what size housing? In cold weather, it's about 20 here now, I see 4.89v on a CAI that is the same diameter as stock. I have just about maxed that out. I've been using SD for the last week or so. I had used it for a while when definitions were first released, but got sick of the cel.
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Old 12-11-2009, 08:54 PM   #187
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83mm ID I maxed out stock housing earlier this summer.

teaser



-Jerod
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Old 12-11-2009, 10:26 PM   #188
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Sweet, dwell tables.
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Old 12-11-2009, 10:42 PM   #189
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Nice what is the picture I cant see? Any info on the dwell? Did it work ?
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Old 12-11-2009, 10:44 PM   #190
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dwell tables
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Old 12-11-2009, 10:55 PM   #191
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Now I can see the pics nice...
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Old 12-13-2009, 01:34 PM   #192
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good work andy/jerod on uncovering the dwell tables.

there will be a point with dwell that additional on time does not appreciably increase the magnetic flux in the coil pack core, because it is maxed out. going beyond that point has no benefit and a good deal of detriment. it is a function of ampre-turns and core material and as a result would be consistent for any similar coil pack.

basically measuring the current flow through the primary coil would reveal if the core is saturating or not. once the core saturates the current flow would increase drastically since there would no longer be any energy going into the magnetic field of the coil core. current would only be limited by the DCR of the primary loop.

are the gray coil packs plug and play vs. the black? which models do they come on? are all the dwell settings for those ecus higher than black pack ecus? if i had a gray one to compare (primary and leakage inductance, dcr, weight, turns ratio) to my oem black packs it might uncover some secrets to longevity/performance.

ken
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Old 12-13-2009, 02:04 PM   #193
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ride5000;2[QUOTE
9089674]good work andy/jerod on uncovering the dwell tables.

there will be a point with dwell that additional on time does not appreciably increase the magnetic flux in the coil pack core, because it is maxed out. going beyond that point has no benefit and a good deal of detriment. it is a function of ampre-turns and core material and as a result would be consistent for any similar coil pack.
basically measuring the current flow through the primary coil would reveal if the core is saturating or not. once the core saturates the current flow would increase drastically since there would no longer be any energy going into the magnetic field of the coil core. current would only be limited by the DCR of the primary loop.

are the gray coil packs plug and play vs. the black? which models do they come on? are all the dwell settings for those ecus higher than black pack ecus? if i had a gray one to compare (primary and leakage inductance, dcr, weight, turns ratio) to my oem black packs it might uncover some secrets to longevity/performance.

ken[/quote]

Wow so many questions Ken! Thanks for chiming in - I actually understand EXACTLY what you are saying - we learned this (Union Electrician) in class a week ago.

I do have a word in to a LARGE contractor that rebuilds electric motors and has enough test equipment to literally tell us @ which point the coils are no longer accepting charge.

To those who don't quite understand - Basically per voltage after the coil is charged to its "maximum" capacity - it will no longer "accept" charge but will basically create heat within the coil pack itself - wasted energy. Not only is this bad, but heat will speed coil pack failure up drastically.

Grey Packs are plug and play BUT it is all dependant on the head - If you are using a 2.0 Head you must use a 2.0 Boot - 2.5 head 2.5 boot.

The boots simply come off and plug onto the other coil pack. So 2.5's can run black packs and 2.0's can run grey packs.

Black packs came on early 00-02 (I think, haven't confirmed) JDM STI models. 02-03 and early 04 USDM Models.

Grey packs came on Late 02+ JDM Models and 04/05 USDM models.

Dwell times for "black Pack" equipted roms are quite a bit lower than Grey pack roms.

Comparing an 02 USDM rom to the SD rom - there is almost 1ms of dwell time from down low till redline.

So out of the factory Grey pack cars came with "more dwell time" than Black pack cars. If that makes sense.

I'd donate to the cause, but I don't have any spare packs. I'm SURE there has to be a grey pack floating around somewhere that someone would donate.

I have grey packs on my car and I have tested with adding a bit of dwell time (around .2ms @ 4000 rpms and .4ms from there to redline) and I did pick up power above 5500 rpms. Down low it was a negligable increase, however above 5500 my boost normally started to taper from whatever peak was to 23 @ redline. I held nearly 26psi at redline and picked up some power (obviously)

I took 3 pulls on "SD Stock Times" on the same road - down - back - down .

Changed dwell (NOTHING ELSE) and did the same. On average I picked up around 15-20whp around 5800 and was up around 23whp @ redline.

This is averaged between 3/3 pulls. No settings were changed and the only variable would have been a 1-2mph in wind sheer and the loss of whatever fuel it took to do these 6 pulls.

I don't think even 5 gallons of fuel or 5mph wind would equate to an average of 23whp @ redline.

I'm not claiming this will be for everyone, I run E85, and it is a HUGE possibility that i may have had slight ignition break up or "under ignition" at higher rpms FOR E85. Not to mention it was 8*F outside during this, meaning E85 is even less flameable. So IF spark quality was increased just enough to make the burn process better, it would explain the increase in power.

Also NO absolutely NO afterfiring since raising dwell.

@ 7000 rpms my dwell @ 14v is around 2.62ms
Dwell @ 14v
500 rpms = 5ms
1000 rpms = 4.5ms
2000 rpms = 3.6ms
and slowly tapering to 2.62ms

I do believe that this CAN and WILL be beneficial to making power in the future on fuels that require a stronger spark capability. Even with aftermarket coil packs.
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Old 12-13-2009, 02:09 PM   #194
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Also a few things to note for those of you interested.

We are working on a CEL fix today - CEL SHOULD be disabled today!

ForcePass Readiness was found by Andy for those of you that need it.

LC was released BUT we are still looking into the possibility that it MAY disabled FBKC.

Minimum Idles for a/c startup electical load as well.

Also working on the annoying high rev when turning your steering wheel at idle.

Things are progressing good I believe.

Dwell should be released within the next couple of days.

-jerod
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Old 12-13-2009, 02:22 PM   #195
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CEL fix!

Good work! Force pass is helpful as well.
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Old 12-13-2009, 08:32 PM   #196
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No CEL fix.
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Old 12-13-2009, 08:47 PM   #197
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^Still good work bro! The dwell tables for RR is HUGE... At least for some users... You two are moving so fast! This stuff is not easy!!! Incredibly difficult work being done!
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Old 12-13-2009, 09:10 PM   #198
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Sweet! Dwell tables! I can't wait. Great Job guys!!!
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Old 12-13-2009, 09:15 PM   #199
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Quote:
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^Still good work bro! The dwell tables for RR is HUGE... At least for some users... You two are moving so fast! This stuff is not easy!!! Incredibly difficult work being done!
What sucks is, there are no codes present, just a light!?

Who knows.
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Old 12-13-2009, 09:21 PM   #200
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We are starting to figure out so much about the rom that the light isn't scaring me so much anymore anyways....Anyway Im sure the cel "fix" will come with time!
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