Speed Density - OS 16bit Rom - Discuss Here - Page 9

JSarv · 12-13-2009, 09:23 PM

What I was going to have someone log is a compensation to the fueling process. It looks like a failsafe map, but it also is used againsted injector latency, almost like a latency compensation.

-jerod

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TDagen · 12-13-2009, 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSarv

What I was going to have someone log is a compensation to the fueling process. It looks like a failsafe map, but it also is used againsted injector latency, almost like a latency compensation.

-jerod

Strange and interesting ... Subaru360 on rr forums donated himself/car for the cause tommorow

...

JSarv · 12-13-2009, 09:57 PM

Honestly - I'm not sure what it is.

To be perfectly honest - I think I found injector phasing to lol. This Table is involved in Final IPW, and the value is subtracted by 128 and multiplied by two - compared to a value and then allows the process of each injector to fire per the ecu's recommendations.

But I think it also determines injector phasing as well, as it calls a specific address for each injector in two places.

-Jerod

elevenpoint7five · 12-15-2009, 12:06 AM

Dwell times are available now: http://www.romraider.com/forum/topic5577.html

Andy

SVT_WRX · 12-15-2009, 01:52 PM

THANK YOU JSARV AND EVERYONE ELSE WHO CHIPPED IN! EXCITING STUFF!

ride5000 · 12-15-2009, 03:30 PM

on a side note, i am now very curious as to what the utec's dwell is.

i do not BELIEVE that it is variable as the oem ecu is.

i know that the majority of utec firmware development was done in AU.

it is certainly possible that the AU spec cars had longer dwell from the get-go.

like i said earlier in the thread, back some 5-6 years ago when utec users were reporting coil pack failures left and right, txs claimed up and down that dwell was "same as stock." the question then becomes, what's stock? as we can see dwell depends on both ECU rom AND rpm.

finally, knowing the utec's dwell duration would give us an ipso facto "safe" starting point. maybe "safe" is the wrong word, but speaking personally i've been running on a utec since fall '03 and i've never had a coil pack problem.

unfortunately my tek 454's trigger circuit has been flaky for years. i think i need a new tunnel diode.

if it's not one thing it's another...

elevenpoint7five · 12-15-2009, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ride5000

on a side note, i am now very curious as to what the utec's dwell is.

i do not BELIEVE that it is variable as the oem ecu is.

i know that the majority of utec firmware development was done in AU.

it is certainly possible that the AU spec cars had longer dwell from the get-go.

like i said earlier in the thread, back some 5-6 years ago when utec users were reporting coil pack failures left and right, txs claimed up and down that dwell was "same as stock." the question then becomes, what's stock? as we can see dwell depends on both ECU rom AND rpm.

finally, knowing the utec's dwell duration would give us an ipso facto "safe" starting point. maybe "safe" is the wrong word, but speaking personally i've been running on a utec since fall '03 and i've never had a coil pack problem.

unfortunately my tek 454's trigger circuit has been flaky for years. i think i need a new tunnel diode.

if it's not one thing it's another...

Are there any AU spec ROMs available? I could locate the dwell table quite easily and release it in the definitions if someone wanted me to...

The current defs, http://www.romraider.com/forum/topic5603.html I believe have all ADM, JDM, USDM, and EDM ROMs that were available to me on scoobypedia.

I must say, the last line of your post confused the hell out of me!

Andy

ride5000 · 12-15-2009, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ride5000

on a side note, i am now very curious as to what the utec's dwell is.

i do not BELIEVE that it is variable as the oem ecu is.

seems i was wrong about that...

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...40#post5938140

still there's the question of whether the AU cars are categorically different coil-wise from the US cars.

elevenpoint7five · 12-15-2009, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ride5000

seems i was wrong about that...

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...40#post5938140

still there's the question of whether the AU cars are categorically different coil-wise from the US cars.

Do you have a ROM from an AU spec car, or know where to get one? It would take 5 minutes to figure it out if someone has one.

Andy

ride5000 · 12-15-2009, 04:18 PM

andy, many can be found here:

http://www.scoobypedia.co.uk/index.p...patibilityList

ken

elevenpoint7five · 12-15-2009, 04:29 PM

Every ROM on that link is defined in the def files that I posted a link to earlier. I was not putting together the fact that AU = ADM

Maybe this will help

I'm not sure why the font wouldn't change in mspaint. Paint skills > me I guess.

Andy

elevenpoint7five · 12-15-2009, 04:30 PM

Wow that's really small. They are the same though for those of you that don't have magnifying glasses built into your eyes.

Andy

ride5000 · 12-15-2009, 04:39 PM

ok, good to know.

it was just a question hanging around in the back of my mind for a couple of years that was recently revived by your work.

elevenpoint7five · 12-15-2009, 04:41 PM

Glad I could help

Are the UTEC settings actually the same as stock then?

Andy

Phatron · 12-15-2009, 04:57 PM

so......should i load this up or what?

new parameters to play with.....hmm.

are the dwell tables now unlocked in the regular old MAF roms?

elevenpoint7five · 12-15-2009, 05:00 PM

Yes, http://www.romraider.com/forum/topic5603.html has the def files for every ROM that was available to me.

If you don't understand dwell I recommend you learn about it before playing with it or at least make very small changes. You can fry coil packs pretty quickly with the wrong settings as well as create a lot of excessive heat. Changing the dwell times will also change your AFR which, in turn, will require the rest of the tune to be changed.

Andy

Phatron · 12-15-2009, 05:26 PM

i dont like to read. i just change stuff and see what happens

ride5000 · 12-15-2009, 05:30 PM

incidentally i would be very suspicious of attributing afr changes to tweaking dwell.

next you're going to be saying that timing changes afr too.

SVT_WRX · 12-15-2009, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elevenpoint7five

Every ROM on that link is defined in the def files that I posted a link to earlier. I was not putting together the fact that AU = ADM

Maybe this will help

I'm not sure why the font wouldn't change in mspaint. Paint skills > me I guess.

Andy

Wow. The SD 02' map has quite a bit more dwell than the USDM 02' MAF based map. Nice!

Oh, wait, I have black coil packs.....hmmmmm.....I'm guessing lower dwell a smidge????

Phatron · 12-15-2009, 05:54 PM

I was wondering that too. Does unburnt fuel + air = the same AFR as burnt fuel + air?

probably be a little different.....even having the wideband at the tailpipe registers a little different AFR than in the downpipe.

if anyone else (like me) never heard of dwell before this thread then this is a good read

http://www.tonyfoale.com/Articles/Ignition/Ignition.htm

bcheck555 · 12-15-2009, 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phatron

I was wondering that too. Does unburnt fuel + air = the same AFR as burnt fuel + air?

probably be a little different.....even having the wideband at the tailpipe registers a little different AFR than in the downpipe.

if anyone else (like me) never heard of dwell before this thread then this is a good read

http://www.tonyfoale.com/Articles/Ignition/Ignition.htm

Indeed, so has anyone measured time to max current for either coil pack?

JSarv · 12-15-2009, 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ride5000

incidentally i would be very suspicious of attributing afr changes to tweaking dwell.

next you're going to be saying that timing changes afr too.

Actually a wideband will react to a better combustion by registering a leaner value. Not substantially but yes it can and WILL change.

from wiki:

"The sensor does not actually measure oxygen concentration, but rather the amount of oxygen needed to completely oxidize any remaining combustibles in the exhaust gas. Rich mixture causes an oxygen demand. This demand causes a voltage to build up, due to transportation of oxygen ions through the sensor layer. Lean mixture causes low voltage, since there is an oxygen excess."

A more complete combustion will leave less combustible particles in the exhaust stream. Again, this will not be substantial.

-Jerod

elevenpoint7five · 12-15-2009, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bcheck555

Indeed, so has anyone measured time to max current for either coil pack?

It is incredibly fast. I didn't record the value when I was measuring everything, but with the oscope set to 5ms boxes everything showed up as square waves. We had to "zoom" in to less than 1ms boxes in order to get any sort of slope on the wave.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSarv

A more complete combustion will leave less combustible particles in the exhaust stream. Again, this will not be substantial.

-Jerod

And the reason I bring this up is because of the massive change in dwell between the black and grey packs. So those of you changing the settings to match your packs might notice a change in AFR that should be paid attention to.

Andy

JSarv · 12-15-2009, 10:33 PM

aren't you supposed to be getting wasted??!

elevenpoint7five · 12-15-2009, 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSarv

aren't you supposed to be getting wasted??!

Haha I wish! I have school in the morning and we are at her moms house visiting.

Andy

12-15-2009, 01:52 PM	#205
SVT_WRX Scooby Specialist Member#: 164830 Join Date: Nov 2007 Chapter/Region: SCIC Location: San Diego Vehicle: 2002 WRX G61 III OVE 58e	Thanks!!!!!!!!!!!!! THANK YOU JSARV AND EVERYONE ELSE WHO CHIPPED IN! EXCITING STUFF!

12-15-2009, 05:54 PM	#220
Phatron Scooby Guru Member#: 36033 Join Date: Apr 2003 Chapter/Region: SCIC Location: Tuning Lab Vehicle: CEO PhatBottiTuning 2006 STi GTX3582 + Meth	I was wondering that too. Does unburnt fuel + air = the same AFR as burnt fuel + air? probably be a little different.....even having the wideband at the tailpipe registers a little different AFR than in the downpipe. if anyone else (like me) never heard of dwell before this thread then this is a good read http://www.tonyfoale.com/Articles/Ignition/Ignition.htm Last edited by Phatron; 12-15-2009 at 05:59 PM.

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12-13-2009, 09:23 PM	#201
JSarv Scooby Specialist Member#: 163445 Join Date: Nov 2007 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: Effingham IL (Central IL) Vehicle: l33t ******* 12.07@115.9mph-EJ205	What I was going to have someone log is a compensation to the fueling process. It looks like a failsafe map, but it also is used againsted injector latency, almost like a latency compensation. -jerod * Registered users of the site do not see these ads.

12-13-2009, 09:57 PM	#203
JSarv Scooby Specialist Member#: 163445 Join Date: Nov 2007 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: Effingham IL (Central IL) Vehicle: l33t ******* 12.07@115.9mph-EJ205	Honestly - I'm not sure what it is. To be perfectly honest - I think I found injector phasing to lol. This Table is involved in Final IPW, and the value is subtracted by 128 and multiplied by two - compared to a value and then allows the process of each injector to fire per the ecu's recommendations. But I think it also determines injector phasing as well, as it calls a specific address for each injector in two places. -Jerod

12-15-2009, 12:06 AM	#204
elevenpoint7five Scooby Specialist Member#: 187798 Join Date: Aug 2008 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: Elk Grove Village IL Vehicle: 04 2 liters of AWESOME!	Dwell times are available now: http://www.romraider.com/forum/topic5577.html Andy

12-15-2009, 03:30 PM	#206
ride5000 Scooby Guru Member#: 32792 Join Date: Feb 2003 Chapter/Region: NESIC Location: lincoln, ri Vehicle: 2003 GGA MBP 12.9 / 105+	on a side note, i am now very curious as to what the utec's dwell is. i do not BELIEVE that it is variable as the oem ecu is. i know that the majority of utec firmware development was done in AU. it is certainly possible that the AU spec cars had longer dwell from the get-go. like i said earlier in the thread, back some 5-6 years ago when utec users were reporting coil pack failures left and right, txs claimed up and down that dwell was "same as stock." the question then becomes, what's stock? as we can see dwell depends on both ECU rom AND rpm. finally, knowing the utec's dwell duration would give us an ipso facto "safe" starting point. maybe "safe" is the wrong word, but speaking personally i've been running on a utec since fall '03 and i've never had a coil pack problem. unfortunately my tek 454's trigger circuit has been flaky for years. i think i need a new tunnel diode. if it's not one thing it's another...

12-15-2009, 04:18 PM	#210
ride5000 Scooby Guru Member#: 32792 Join Date: Feb 2003 Chapter/Region: NESIC Location: lincoln, ri Vehicle: 2003 GGA MBP 12.9 / 105+	andy, many can be found here: http://www.scoobypedia.co.uk/index.p...patibilityList ken

12-15-2009, 04:29 PM	#211
elevenpoint7five Scooby Specialist Member#: 187798 Join Date: Aug 2008 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: Elk Grove Village IL Vehicle: 04 2 liters of AWESOME!	Every ROM on that link is defined in the def files that I posted a link to earlier. I was not putting together the fact that AU = ADM Maybe this will help I'm not sure why the font wouldn't change in mspaint. Paint skills > me I guess. Andy

12-15-2009, 04:30 PM	#212
elevenpoint7five Scooby Specialist Member#: 187798 Join Date: Aug 2008 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: Elk Grove Village IL Vehicle: 04 2 liters of AWESOME!	Wow that's really small. They are the same though for those of you that don't have magnifying glasses built into your eyes. Andy

12-15-2009, 04:39 PM	#213
ride5000 Scooby Guru Member#: 32792 Join Date: Feb 2003 Chapter/Region: NESIC Location: lincoln, ri Vehicle: 2003 GGA MBP 12.9 / 105+	ok, good to know. it was just a question hanging around in the back of my mind for a couple of years that was recently revived by your work.

12-15-2009, 04:41 PM	#214
elevenpoint7five Scooby Specialist Member#: 187798 Join Date: Aug 2008 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: Elk Grove Village IL Vehicle: 04 2 liters of AWESOME!	Glad I could help Are the UTEC settings actually the same as stock then? Andy

12-15-2009, 04:57 PM	#215
Phatron Scooby Guru Member#: 36033 Join Date: Apr 2003 Chapter/Region: SCIC Location: Tuning Lab Vehicle: CEO PhatBottiTuning 2006 STi GTX3582 + Meth	so......should i load this up or what? new parameters to play with.....hmm. are the dwell tables now unlocked in the regular old MAF roms?

12-15-2009, 05:00 PM	#216
elevenpoint7five Scooby Specialist Member#: 187798 Join Date: Aug 2008 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: Elk Grove Village IL Vehicle: 04 2 liters of AWESOME!	Yes, http://www.romraider.com/forum/topic5603.html has the def files for every ROM that was available to me. If you don't understand dwell I recommend you learn about it before playing with it or at least make very small changes. You can fry coil packs pretty quickly with the wrong settings as well as create a lot of excessive heat. Changing the dwell times will also change your AFR which, in turn, will require the rest of the tune to be changed. Andy

12-15-2009, 05:26 PM	#217
Phatron Scooby Guru Member#: 36033 Join Date: Apr 2003 Chapter/Region: SCIC Location: Tuning Lab Vehicle: CEO PhatBottiTuning 2006 STi GTX3582 + Meth	i dont like to read. i just change stuff and see what happens

12-15-2009, 05:30 PM	#218
ride5000 Scooby Guru Member#: 32792 Join Date: Feb 2003 Chapter/Region: NESIC Location: lincoln, ri Vehicle: 2003 GGA MBP 12.9 / 105+	incidentally i would be very suspicious of attributing afr changes to tweaking dwell. next you're going to be saying that timing changes afr too.

12-15-2009, 10:33 PM	#224
JSarv Scooby Specialist Member#: 163445 Join Date: Nov 2007 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: Effingham IL (Central IL) Vehicle: l33t ******* 12.07@115.9mph-EJ205	aren't you supposed to be getting wasted??!