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Old 10-19-2009, 01:50 AM   #1
jimountain
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Default Favorite Shocks?

04 sti on stock kyb struts and prodrive springs- have dms racing camber plates - hate the body roll and lift and dive. I'm working on upgrading bushings 1'st, then sway bars, alignment, and good rubber.

in terms of coilovers, never experienced them as a driver or passenger, but I think I want them? I bought an sti because I wanted a race car!

RCE- TII,
KW-V3
Tic-SSt
Cusco Zero 2r
Tein Mono-Flex


I'm putting in a W.L. 27mm adj. (looking for 24 adj. rear and Kartboy endlinks)


I'm a newbie, just trying to do my research- Really dissappointed in Sti, comparing it to a race kart. Previously, only other "speed" experience was going downhill on a windy road in my stock 93 toyota p/u(245k mi), which as of right now, would beat that sti on that downhill windy road!
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Last edited by jimountain; 10-19-2009 at 11:18 PM. Reason: tire inquiry not relevant/wordy
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Old 10-19-2009, 03:37 AM   #2
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An STi is not a "race" car. The WRX is about 40-50k from being an amazing automobile, and the STi is about 30-40k from the same. All cars have their weaknesses and no car is excellent in all areas.

In just glancing at your list I see problematic issues in your future. If you put some serious effort into reading up on suspension theory and got enough performance oriented seat time to actually absorb it, you would know what I mean. A lack of roll does not necessarily equate to good handling, this is just a common misconception.

Have you ever setup a vehicle with multi adjustable suspension ? If you don't know when or why you need to firm up the rebound, or soften the compression (or vice-versa) then you will have a lot of issues. Get some books, and some seat time. You will see.

FWIW: I will be buying the RCE Tarmac II's at the end of next season when I do my drivetrain swap, so I am not anti-coilover.

Hope you find something you are happy with.

Last edited by UFOpilot; 10-19-2009 at 03:38 AM. Reason: Addendum
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Old 10-19-2009, 07:41 AM   #3
jimountain
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I'm a poor starving artist- I'm defninitely not going to put 40k into my sti, okay I should have known better than to say "race" car, because when I say race car I think F1. I just want it to handle better. To agree with what you said, my toyota may feel like its going to roll over at initial turn in with 14" tires, and stock everything (except kyb shocks) and the only guy I know of that can drive as fast as me down "the grade" is in an evo. That's why I really don't want to sell my truck with 245k mi. it may be old- but I know its capabilities/limits.
thanks for the response
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Old 10-19-2009, 07:47 AM   #4
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What kind of racing are you doing?

There are different types of suspension options for the different types of racing.

--kC
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Old 10-19-2009, 10:28 AM   #5
jimountain
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Default just daily driving

I'm not really racing, unless I'm at the track.
Haven't made it to the track yet.
Just picked up the sti am replacing control arm (hopefully this week), considering different bushing options; and since I think I have the infamous strut clunk; in thinking about the possibility of having to pay to rebuild or replace components (don't know if I can just regrease them like I've read on some threads) it would be really nice to have the adjustability of a coilover, for daily driving, and whenever I have the possibility (funds) to make it to the track.
I haven't done bushings yet- don't really know how much of a difference that will actually make and whether it is even worth doing/not doing with struts.
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Old 10-19-2009, 10:58 AM   #6
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So you're asking in motorsports for everyone to list their favorite suspension for a daily driver, yet you don't have the $$ to 'track'.

Keep your stock suspension and use that money to go to a track. You will quickly see that it's not the suspension, but the driver, that makes all the difference... as UFO said.

Not only that, my favorite suspension is less than streetable. Asking this question in motorsports and not the suspension forum means you want a motorsports geared answer, in which you don't participate.

Does not compute.

--kC
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Old 10-19-2009, 01:53 PM   #7
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Custom Konis made by Pro-Parts are my favorite.
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Old 10-19-2009, 01:59 PM   #8
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I love me some friction shocks.



They will TRANSFORM an STi.
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Old 10-19-2009, 02:43 PM   #9
jimountain
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Default favorite suspension

KC- I wanted a motorsports answer, that's why I asked!
I not some stupid weekend warrior sissy driver- I'm a racer at heart
my 1st qualifying in my race kart I went from 12th (starting) to 3'rd.
did horrible in the actual race, because by then the track had changed, and I didn't know what changes to make to dial in the setup ; as a beginner!
I wouldn't bother wasting the money to go to a track right now, but with a couple thousand dollars (in used parts) I could make significant improvements and have a "fun enough" setup that would obviously! not be competitive at the top of the field.

As far as sticking to the road- I think this sti is horrible, and I'm trying to figure out how much better I can make it on a budget- or if there is no point in trying!?

in motorsports the top racers trade places all the time- largely determined by setup! I agree, the guys who are really fast are born that way and are fast in anything.
What is your favorite setup? I'm trying to find out the difference between street and track setup- I've never been in a race/track/autocross ready sti- I'm just trying to research and find out more
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Old 10-19-2009, 03:07 PM   #10
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Pay no mind to KC

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimountain View Post
What shocks do you guys recommend (if missing a good option, lmk)
Consider H&R Coilovers being that you have an 04 STi. Affordable (picked mine up new for $970), Bilstein strut components, Inverted strut design, Lifetime warranty, Available through Perrin and Tirerack. Note they don't include upper mounts and damping adjusters, and they have "soft" springs F8kg/mm R 5kg/mm. I swapped the rears out for 6kg/mm without a revalve. Car is used for DD street, HPDE/TT, and autox with great success.

More info on my setup at www.hamfistracing.com

Last edited by S1MPSONS; 10-19-2009 at 03:17 PM.
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Old 10-19-2009, 04:03 PM   #11
jimountain
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Default bump

thank you bump
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Old 10-19-2009, 10:38 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S1MPSONS View Post
Pay no mind to KC



Consider H&R Coilovers being that you have an 04 STi. Affordable (picked mine up new for $970), Bilstein strut components, Inverted strut design, Lifetime warranty, Available through Perrin and Tirerack. Note they don't include upper mounts and damping adjusters, and they have "soft" springs F8kg/mm R 5kg/mm. I swapped the rears out for 6kg/mm without a revalve. Car is used for DD street, HPDE/TT, and autox with great success.

More info on my setup at www.hamfistracing.com
Wow, Bilstein shock components took the top 3 spots in STU this year -go figure. I guess DG at farnorthracing knew what he was talking about!

I agree, Bilstein makes one of the very few coil-overs I would recommend for daily use.
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Old 10-20-2009, 02:15 PM   #13
jimountain
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Default bump

I've been trying to find an affordable Bilstein setup

thanks, I'm going to check that out.
right now.
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Old 10-20-2009, 04:50 PM   #14
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Hello and welcome to subies!

By far the best set of dampers(shocks) i've ridden in are the AST 4100 coilovers I got from Vorshlag.com. I have used them very successfully at autocross this year and when using the springs suggested i thought they rode smoother but handled WAY better than stock and are a dream to daily drive. The adjustability is great and the service from vorshlag is first class, by far one of the best managed and employed companies i've dealt with in a while.

My personal experience includes stock dampers, koni yellows and Advance design coilovers(which are for sale, but man are they stiff) and the AST's take the cake in every way.

Pm me if you have more ?'s
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Old 10-21-2009, 12:37 PM   #15
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my favorite so far are koni inserts with ground control sleeves. amazing on the street, even more so in autox. they're on par with my friend's kw v3s.

koni inserts with rce yellow, rce black, or swift r-spec springs would be amazing too.

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1811060
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Old 10-22-2009, 07:02 PM   #16
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I'm not sure how you expect a full-sized car to ever give an experience like a kart.

But...

you can do work to approach what a kart represents. The problem is money.

A big step is to tighten up the car. If you want it to feel like a kart, it needs to be rock solid like one. All the mush bushings and mounts go. Replace everything with solid bearing type connections and where you can't a hard rubber or poly bushing/mount. By all I do mean all, every squishy piece on the vehicle: the suspension links and tophats, engine, tranny, rear diff, steering rack, and shifter. Add stiffening on the chassis where it's most beneficial. All of this will give you a much more direct link between you and the car and the car and the road. It's nice when you can actually feel what the tires are doing.

Beyond that, you want to make the car responsive. This means you stiffen up the suspension. Firmer springs and dampers will allow the car to react and transition quicker and give less roll. The less roll and movement, the faster the chassis can set up and just go. If you want some freedom in setup, consider something like Tokico D-Spec struts + Ground Control coilover kit. Build the package you want that will achieve the desired goals.

Start lightening up the car. Reduce weight where you can. Less mass and less inertial resistance, the more spry and lively the car will behave.

For rough costs:
-bushings/mounts (all) ~ $1000
-strut/spring combo ~ $1000
-lightening ~ $0 ( )
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Old 10-27-2009, 09:31 PM   #17
jimountain
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Default thanks for the advice

I just purchased some new/used:
cowl braces
f & R strut braces (they were cheap, so why not?)
inner control arm bushing
rear control arm bushing (in the knuckle)
steering rack bushings
rear diff. lock bolts
trans. bushings (not the tranny mounts, but the other ones)
27mm. front sway bar with links (I have a 24 front right now)
trans. bushings (not the tranny mounts but the other ones)
roll center adj. kit

already have:
engine and tranny mounts,
shifter bushings
trailing arms and lateral links with spherical bearings
planning also:
24mm. rear swaybar and links-- hopefully this will be a neutral setup

not interested in autox I don't think, would like to take it to the track though, thanks for the advice __ i realize it being like a kart is impossible. I have heard their is nothing that accelerates/handles closer to an indy car than a race kart --biggest smile I have ever had-and sore the next day
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Old 10-29-2009, 04:49 PM   #18
iLuveKetchup
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Since your not trying to stay in a particular SCCA class. I'd suggest to do the hub swap (5x114) now before buying more mods for the 5x100 hub.
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Old 10-29-2009, 05:41 PM   #19
penderperson
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iLuveKetchup View Post
Since your not trying to stay in a particular SCCA class. I'd suggest to do the hub swap (5x114) now before buying more mods for the 5x100 hub.
Any particular reason why?
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Old 10-29-2009, 05:43 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by penderperson View Post
Any particular reason why?
5x100 hubs/bearings are weaker, leading to pad knockback. Having your brake pedal sink to the floor is scary/dangerous.
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Old 10-29-2009, 05:56 PM   #21
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I doubt the hubs are any weaker, as far as bearings, plenty of folks have complaints about bearings on 5x114 setups.

Even some racecars have pad knockback, necessitating a pump or two of the brakes, so for someone looking to improve handling from stock I don't think that would be my first upgrade.

I will agree that pad knockback is bad, but its more likely a maintenance or finishing touch to add after you have a fairly capable track thing, best solution (and cheaper than hub swap)appears to actually be a nissan wheel bearing and cryo treatment, but i've lost the thread.
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Old 10-29-2009, 06:05 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by penderperson View Post
Even some racecars have pad knockback, necessitating a pump or two of the brakes, so for someone looking to improve handling from stock I don't think that would be my first upgrade.
It would make sense to have it as the first upgrade b/c if you leave it to the last step.. you're left w/ parts that are compatible for 5x100 only. penderperson, you wouldn't get pad knock back as bad as an 04 STi (5x100 w/ Brembo brakes). BTW, I have the Nissan bearings & they are not a fix. They just delay the inevitable.

So for example... Im happy w/ how my car handles. However, Im getting pad knock back after every offset or slalom. I have Tarmac IIs w/ track wheels (and winter wheels/tires). The only real fix is to switch over to 5x114 hubs. At this point, I really dont want to buy another set of wheels for track & winter. Not to mention, Id have to buy new struts. Plus, I'd be out of STU class.

Again, I'd do the swap before anything else (since the OP is not adhering to any classing rules).

Last edited by iLuveKetchup; 10-29-2009 at 06:12 PM.
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Old 10-29-2009, 06:46 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimountain View Post
KC- I wanted a motorsports answer, that's why I asked!
I not some stupid weekend warrior sissy driver- I'm a racer at heart
my 1st qualifying in my race kart I went from 12th (starting) to 3'rd.
did horrible in the actual race, because by then the track had changed, and I didn't know what changes to make to dial in the setup ; as a beginner!
I wouldn't bother wasting the money to go to a track right now, but with a couple thousand dollars (in used parts) I could make significant improvements and have a "fun enough" setup that would obviously! not be competitive at the top of the field.

As far as sticking to the road- I think this sti is horrible, and I'm trying to figure out how much better I can make it on a budget- or if there is no point in trying!?

in motorsports the top racers trade places all the time- largely determined by setup! I agree, the guys who are really fast are born that way and are fast in anything.
What is your favorite setup? I'm trying to find out the difference between street and track setup- I've never been in a race/track/autocross ready sti- I'm just trying to research and find out more
This makes no sense.

And listen to KC, he has some good stuff to say and knows a thing or 2 about set ups


I had a set of RCE t2's with 500/600 rates on my 04. It was firm for DD, but was awesome on the track and pretty good for auto x
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Old 10-30-2009, 04:36 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KC View Post
So you're asking in motorsports for everyone to list their favorite suspension for a daily driver, yet you don't have the $$ to 'track'.

Keep your stock suspension and use that money to go to a track. You will quickly see that it's not the suspension, but the driver, that makes all the difference... as UFO said.

Not only that, my favorite suspension is less than streetable. Asking this question in motorsports and not the suspension forum means you want a motorsports geared answer, in which you don't participate.

Does not compute.

--kC
sorry we're not michael schumacher he also asked in the autocross forum...most autocrossers i know take their daily drivers to the said events. and those who don't...well they're probably not taking a wrx to the event

yes i understand you can't replace more seat time and skill by throwing money at your car, but you cannot argue that even the most novice drivers will not benefit from upgraded struts...
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Old 10-30-2009, 07:42 AM   #25
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prometheum...

whats your favorite...

Cookie?
Sandwich?
Road?
Video Game?
Tool?

See what I'm getting at? His initial post had no mention of *why* he wanted it. So I enquired before I even said anything (highly unusual for me to do I admit).

He answered with "It's not for track", and then became defensive because yes, 1) I put him on the defensive because 2) this is the auto-x forum in motorsports. Not the daily driving forum. (And then edited his initial post about 10 hours later after 12 posts have been made).

Quote:
yes i understand you can't replace more seat time and skill by throwing money at your car, but you cannot argue that even the most novice drivers will not benefit from upgraded struts...
I can and will argue that point. The wrong equipment (selecting from 20 different 'what's best' answers) means the OP has to throw a dart and pick one, with ZERO experience on an auto-x. Some that can/will be listed could make the OP actually slower, with no understanding of how their car works or even never having been on an auto-x course. A novice will find more time their 1st few times out just by learning how to drive the course. The equipment has no bearing on it.

If you're not autoxing the car, "what's best" questions in the autox forum have no relevance to daily driving. It mucks up the search for those that *do* want to find autox specific setups for their car. Auto-x forum = auto-x specific answers.

Asking a generic question will yield generic and varied answers. It's as dumb of a question one can ask in a forum (autox) that is geared towards solutions for a specific sport.

Auto-xers that drive their cars to and from the events probably (more than likely) have comprimised their daily driving *comfort* to increase their handling at an auto-x... (those that have the ambition to be at the top of their class anyways).

Quote:
he also asked in the autocross forum...most autocrossers i know take their daily drivers to the said events. and those who don't...well they're probably not taking a wrx to the event
Key words: you know. I didn't daily drive my WRX when I had it set up for STX. I towed it everywhere. 1) ensured that if something broke I could get home 2) too stiff to daily drive but handled awesome on the course. I know many WRXs that aren't daily driven either. Doesn't mean that it applies to everyone with a broad brush.

Sure, I won both SCCA ProSolo and Solo-II national titles for the STX class in a WRX in 2003, but I don't know everything about setup. I help novices by giving them the rock-bottom truth that their *tuner* friends don't. You don't get faster until you have the seat time. Then you 1) know what you want to do and more importantly 2) know *if* you want to do it weighing the pros/cons. Throwing darts at 100 answers is no way to learn anything but how to get lucky (unless you're really good at darts... then that just goes all to hell, doesn't it?).

C/N: Asking 'what's best' in a motorsport specific forum (autox) with no intent to auto-x clutters up those wanting to know/search for specific auto-x answers. At that, 'what's best' questions will yeild no consensus as to what 'really is' best due to the variety of setups. What's best for *sporty daily driving* is different than what's best for *autox*. What's best for sporty daily driving can be answered easily with a search and throwing a dart at *those* results.

--kC

Last edited by KC; 10-30-2009 at 07:51 AM.
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