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Old 05-14-2002, 11:54 AM   #1
CirrusWRX
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Question Why does every dealer "have" to receive "outstanding" reviews?!

I'm sorry - I'm just peeved at the moment. My dealer just called, about a month after purchasing my WRX, and like everybody else I've ever heard from, he said,

him-> "I just want to congratulate you on your purchase!"

me-> "GREAT! Thanks, I love it!!!"

him-> "...and I also wanted to let you know that you will be receiving a survey in the mail, and if for any reason you don't give us the highest marks in all fields, please give me a call first so we can work it out."

me-> "Well, the car wasn't aligned properly when I drove it off the lot and I had to take it back twice for you to align it."

him-> "...but, it's okay now, right?! hehehe"

me-> "Well, yes it is, but that doesn't include the 2 days I didn't have my car and having to arrange for people to drive me to/from work, my house, school, etc... So I don't see why you should get perfect marks. I was very satisfied with the sales person but the car went off the lot mis-aligned. It took it to your service center two times because they didn't fix it the first time. I specifically asked for an alignment the first time, and all they did was adjust the toe-angle because they said that was the only problem.

The car then pulled worse in the opposite direction. Had to take it back, and DEMANDED a full alignement. Once that was complete, the car has been fine. So in essence, I wasn't completely satisfied, and you didn't correct it the first time, and you also tried to charge me for window etching (before I said I wouldn't pay it) which I wasn't too thrilled about either. So I don't know what you could say or do that indicates to me why you should get perfect marks, since it, well, wasn't perfect.

He went on and on about how he was very sorry, but "these things do happen" and I couldn't prove it was mis-aligned when I drove it off the lot (no ***** -- really?!?!? You mean you have to DRIVE it first before you can tell if it's mis-aligned?!??!!)

Anyway, all in all, I was pissed because I know these reviews make them "look better" but how important can it be if "everybody" has to give them perfect marks?! What does this say about these dealerships? "Every purchase/service a customer has had from this place has been perfect. They couldn't have asked for anything more." Uh... no. That's the point of a SURVEY -- to get a feel about how you are doing your job. NOBODY IS PERFECT, and while I'm sure some customers are 100% satisfied, I was 90% satisfied, so I don't see why I have to indicate otherwise?!

Whew - that was a long one. But I feel better now.
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Old 05-14-2002, 11:57 AM   #2
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Just rate them the way you want. The main reason why they want an outstanding rating is that most dealerships get allocations based on their ratings. If they get outstanding ratings, then they could possibly get more "high demand" cars allocated to them and thus increase their profit potential.

Calvin
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Old 05-14-2002, 12:00 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally posted by cnk
Just rate them the way you want. The main reason why they want an outstanding rating is that most dealerships get allocations based on their ratings. If they get outstanding ratings, then they could possibly get more "high demand" cars allocated to them and thus increase their profit potential.

Calvin
not what I heard. My dealer also needed a perfect score. he said it was all or nothing for them. They get penalized for less than 100% supposedly.

eh,
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Old 05-14-2002, 12:04 PM   #4
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Now is your chance to bang them, if you want to. Call them up and ask themwhat they will do (i.e. free short shifter, lifetime oil change, etc) to make up for it and earn that "perfect score".
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Old 05-14-2002, 12:09 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by TypeC


not what I heard. My dealer also needed a perfect score. he said it was all or nothing for them. They get penalized for less than 100% supposedly.

eh,

So my response to that is, "too bad." I mean, I don't want to put them out of business, and I highly doubt that my one measily little unperfect rating is going to even show up as a blip on the radar, but if it's truely a problem, then they can go take it up with SOA if that's what it's about.

This is like the "A-inflation" in schools today. If you don't get an 'A' then the teacher sucks. They're unfair, and they're out to get you. It has nothing to do with the fact that you're a dumbass. If you don't get an 'A' then there is something wrong. I dunno, in my book, A=Outstanding. B=Better than the rest. C=Average. I say these guys were cerainly above average, but they weren't Outstanding. If they were, then they would've sold me the car for $500 above invoice hassle free, and wouldn't have tried to pull any games. That didn't happen, so this is what I "rate" them.

Like I said above, nobody is going to notice that I didn't fill out my form with "all perfect" responses, but it's just one of those things that irks me!
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Old 05-14-2002, 12:14 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by jamz
Now is your chance to bang them, if you want to. Call them up and ask themwhat they will do (i.e. free short shifter, lifetime oil change, etc) to make up for it and earn that "perfect score".
Agreed, but I guess the issue here lies within these seemingly bogus survey's. I mean, what's the point. Sure it'd be cool to get some "satisfaction" outta them, but what does that do for the survey overall? I can see it now:

1. Were you less than 100% satisfied during this experience?


2. If you checked "yes" to #1, did the dealer attempt to sway your opinion with kickbacks to make up for an initial lack of 100% satisfaction?


3. If you checked "yes" to #2, were you satisfied with the kickbacks/arangement that took place after the dealer heard you weren't going to give him a 100% rating such that NOW your satisfaction has now increased to the standard 100% completely satisfied score?
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Old 05-16-2002, 12:48 PM   #7
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Default The real deal

As a former Subaru car salesman, let me explain the way these surveys work.

First, the survey is graded based on 3 specific questions. Those questions refer to your overall purchase/service experience at the dealership. The questions ask about your intent to come back to the same dealer, your overall satisfaction, and comparision to other dealers. Although these questions are about the dealership as a whole, it is the salesman's survey. So if the salesman gave you 100% satisfaction, and the finance manager was not so honest about the terms of your contract and ruins your whole puchase experience, the bad marks on the survey are only going to hurt the salesman. Or if you feel that you just purchased a less than quality product, and you take it out on the survey, the salesman will suffer the repercussions.

How are the survey's graded? Well, there are 7 possible answers to choose from on the three specific questions. All three questions must have perfect scores for the complete survey to pass. If 2 out of 3 of the questions are perfect, and one is near perfect, that survey counts as a failing grade of 0. The survey either passes with a score of 100 or fails with a score of 0. So you can praise the salesman all you want in the comment section of the survey, but if you can't answer perfect on those questions, then the salesman is screwed!

Why are good surveys needed? Without enough good surveys, the salesman will lose awards, bonuses, incentives, etc... And if he gets enough bad surveys, he will get pay deductions and eventually lose his job.

So just take is easy on the survey and if you wanna be honest, your more than welcome to call Subaru customer service or contact upper management in the dealership.
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Old 05-16-2002, 02:12 PM   #8
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I hear ya, and I figured it works that way, but please tell me that this isn't an utterly ridiculous situation.

You must agree that a survey that falls on a 100% or 0% score is actually HELPFUL? Gimme a break! Just look at a standard margin of error, and this almost renders the survey as a complete waste of time!

And if somebody says, "but 100% or nothing is the way we deserve satisfaction" then they have no chance in the business world. Yes 100% satisfaction is a good thing, but I can't believe that is somebody is 90% satisfied, they're going to curse you rotten for the rest of your life. I had a minor problem, and it had nothing to do with the salesman, but in the same respect, if I were to be 100% satisfied, I wouldn't have had to hammer him down on price. This is practically an unrealistic expectation -- just part of the "car buying" ritual, but I had to do it and I don't enjoy acting like an ass to get my price, but I did, and we were both happy.

I guess what I'm saying is, why don't they just overhaul this retarded survey system and put a real one in place that may actually HELP determine the quality of a salesman!

Who would I write to at Subaru to voice this opinion?
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Old 05-26-2002, 02:52 PM   #9
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As another Subaru sales person, I'll back up the "all or nothing" survey quandry. If we get less than perfect surveys, it costs us a percentage of our bonuses for selling a certain number of cars. As most of you out there don't buy a car for much more than invoice please keep in mind we're not getting any commissions so we rely on bonuses to make our living. No one gets affected by these stupid surveys but us, the people who do the legwork, not set the price, not approve your offers, not build or service your cars. Go easy on us and take out any frustrations by calling the 800 numbers for big Subaru, they're the only ones who can make changes, you know.
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Old 05-29-2002, 03:29 PM   #10
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No I will not lie on the survey. If you want 100% good ratings, treat me 100% right. If Subaru wants to penalize you because your customers answered honestly, call the 800 number and complain to them. Not my problem.
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Old 05-29-2002, 05:41 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by mb2k
No I will not lie on the survey. If you want 100% good ratings, treat me 100% right. If Subaru wants to penalize you because your customers answered honestly, call the 800 number and complain to them. Not my problem.
hehee - I'm kinda in agreement here.

let me play devils advocate:

[devils advocate]
I'm a stupid consumer. If I have a survey in front of me, and I didn't get 100% service, you better believe that I'm not going to write down 100%. Why on earth should I give you 100% when I wasn't 100% satisfied? Do you think I give a rats ass how this "system works?" Not really. I fill in the questionnaire at "Pizzaria Uno" all the time -- do you think I do it every time things went 100%? No - I only fill it out when the server was a complete schmuck and spilled a drink on me! Do you think Uno's headquarters reads this and says, "Hmmmm server number 20538 spilled a drink -- let's not pay them this month..."

Subaru's questionnaire and survey system is completely bogus. It doesn't make sense, and being the stupid and lazy consumer that I am, I couldn't care less how it works!
[/devils advocate]

Now, not that I truely feel like that (or hopefully not that stupid or lazy...) but you see my (our) point?
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Old 06-04-2002, 11:19 PM   #12
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I'm a service advisor for Honda. We also get the surverys, and believe it or not they are taken VERY seriously. They can cost me up to 1/5 of my pay per month. If we don't get excellents we are in trouble - all excellents. Yes, the manufacturers pay attention to them, and yes we are adversely affected by a bad survey. It's hard to deliver "excellent service" to someone who just wants an oil change, get them in, get them out. What more could you want? Well, people like mb2k hear about the survey and want discounts and **** like that. NO! I'm not going to kiss your ass and give you service at a reduced rate because you're as ******* that can and will hold something like that over my head. You get what you came for at a fair price in a timely manner and you get the hell out, that's all you can ask - if you get anything more - you should be so grateful. Cirrus - did you not test drive the car? If not why did you buy a car that you can't test drive - your situation is exactly what a test drive would prevent, and why would you take out your problems with SERVICE on a survey for the SALESMAN? It's a rant because I was more than happy to help my salesman out on it, and I expect the same from every customer I have - if I make a mistake I will make it up to you, and I am always willing to go the extra mile.
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Old 06-06-2002, 11:16 AM   #13
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i believe that the survey represents the sale overall.
how the sales experience was.


not that you had to bring it back for a product issue.(thats what service surveys are for.)

you will get another survey for the service. let them know then!!
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Old 06-06-2002, 12:05 PM   #14
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Pumpn_fe - I think I must still not be making my point clear!

I am stupid "Joe ImADick Consumer" and I DON'T CARE ABOUT YOUR PAYCHECK! I'm pissed off because the g/f won't give me any, and you look better than me, and you did my oil change. I DON'T LIKE YOU. Your survey is a GREAT way to take out my agression. Ever hear of "outliers" and "standard deviations??"

**disclaimer** I DO care about your salary, and I think it SUCKS that somebody like the above can influence it.

This is why I'm saying OVERHAUL THIS LOUSY SURVEY SYSTEM! Ask any stastician - every survey has a MARGIN OF ERROR, and these big car mfg's must've skipped that class or something. How can anybody argue that these survey's offer a valid insight into how these places are operating?!

I assume you work with top notch mechanics. But let's say (for sake of arguement) You're a complete tool, you're very unfriendly, vulgar, I don't like your hair, and I think you smell. I will give you 100% on "competence" but on "friendliness" I give you 80%, and list the reasons. What does that tell corporate? That you have top notch mechanics, but you need to work on customer relations.

What if I go to a place with monkeys, but the friendliest people on earth?? They get 50% on tech competency, and 100% on customer relations.

Look at this?!? Now we can FORM A TREND and make sound business decisions on how to operate a better business based on this rather-valuable, and semi-accurate information.

But with the current way of doing things, we use bogus surveys, and we see a magical (and unrealistic) straight-line trend at 100%. Why is this?? Because your income depends on it! Talk about outside influences affecting the outcome!

All I'm saying is that I can't believe you people put up with this!! If I worked for Honda and Subaru and they pulled this *****, I'D FLIP! Within a paragraph, you can prove that (in their current form) these surveys are COMPLETELY invalid and prove absolutely nothing.

I'm sure you run a tight shop, but you can't honestly stand there and tell me that you guys can't stand room for improvement SOME where. Every business that operates can improve something, and these surveys will be NO indication. Maybe your free coffee sucks - FIND OUT WITH A SURVEY! Otherwise, some customer may be nearly 100% satisfied, but had the worst cup of coffee in his life when he was waiting for an oil change. Do you think your pay should suffer because of this?? No! (at least, I hope not!) You should find out from Honda that the guy liked everything about the service, but you need to start buying better coffee.

ya dig? So from what you're saying, the survey's are really NOT taken seriously. Sure, they're used as a scare tactic by corporate to dangle over your head and compensation, but they serve no meaningful purpose to help improve the way the business operates. (Which is one of the main reasons to do statistical research in the first place!)
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Old 06-06-2002, 09:16 PM   #15
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Pay plans vary from dealership to dealership, while ours does base some of our pay off of our scores, a lot of dealerships do NOT. Believe it or not the survey has a section for amenities ie: coffee, tv's and the like, that section does not affect my score. The only part I care about is what directly affects me. Was your service advisor helpful, knowledgeable, blah blah blah. However, some people get upset when we dont have a part in stock and take it out on the whole survey including my part which is bull****. I was nice and helpful, its not my fault we didn't have part in stock dont take it out on me and its not the salesman's fault your car's alignment was off - dont take it out on him.
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Old 06-07-2002, 01:25 PM   #16
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Totally agreed, but every survey has outliers and a GOOD survey will be able to handle those!

(I sat through friggin 18 weeks of my life in boring stat classes, and this is just basic stuff which is why I would hope big important people in big important companies would be able to do it successfully!!)
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Old 07-03-2002, 08:34 PM   #17
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"What more could you want? Well, people like mb2k hear about the survey and want discounts and **** like that. NO! I'm not going to kiss your ass and give you service at a reduced rate because you're as ******* that can and will hold something like that over my head. You get what you came for at a fair price in a timely manner and you get the hell out, that's all you can ask - if you get anything more - you should be so grateful. "


haha well i guess u will feel like the ******* when u don't get paid

and what do u mean by taken very seriously...wouldn't that be kissing ass, but at a professional level.. not your ... u got what u want so kiss my ass attitude
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Old 07-11-2002, 02:46 PM   #18
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Smile

I am also a service advisor. I agree with your point about the surveys being 100% or 0, but that is the way it is. We do our best as service advisors to make you 100% satisfied. Now I know there are times when things are not fixed right or it takes longer than we estimate. But we do our best to make it right. The systems we use are not perfect, just as I,m sure in your line of work thing are not perfect. But we do the best we can to help. So remeber when your filling out the survey to read each question and answer it truthfully. These surveys are taken very serously and will get back to us. The questions ask spacific points, and the there is a comment section on the survey, for you to say your likes or dislikes with the vehicle, service department, or subaru itself. I hope this has explained a little more about what goes on.
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Old 07-11-2002, 09:07 PM   #19
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sorry guys had to add a comment on this topic, i am a service manager at a large ford dealership in the fort lauderdale area.and after reading comments from both sides of the fence here all i can say is that both sides are right in this case. yes the survey system sucks, i mean come on lets face it how many times have you gone to purchase anything in any store and be 100% satisfied. its a next to impossible task to ask of the dealership. no parts, not fixed right, late in completion, for the manufacturer to ask the people to be at the dealership level to be perfect is quite ironic isnt it?. i mean if they were as perfect as they expected us to be well you wouldnt be in here in the first place!!!. but thats the rules no matter how ****ty they are thats how we a scored. but maybe the next time you as a customer are in the dealership, and things didnt go 100% perfect take a minute to see how the service advisor reacted to the problems. did he sincerely try to help you?, did he offer to make the service visit as accomading as possibe you can tell if a person is being sincere or just trying to brush you off, if he was truly trying to help you, well when the survey comes and they ask you about being totally satisfiedgive him the !00% score. but let him know that after u send it in(he will se it when it is returned to him by the manufacturer. and then say hey buddy you see i help you out with the survey can you try to pull some strings to get my car in and out faster or whatever. trust me this will go a long way at the service dept with him and management.and u will have a more than pleasent experience and relationship with that dealer. honestly everyone at the dealer would love to get your car fixed to your satisfaction. its much easier to face a happy customer than a pissed off one. sorry for rambling just my 2cents worth.
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Old 07-12-2002, 01:45 PM   #20
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Time to chime in.

My car has been in for service several times.

-To replace the glove compartment that somehow broke before I took delivery

-Fix the subwoofer rattle - I made a gasket that ended up doing the trick.

-Replacing entire clutch assembly due to serious vibration caused by broken clip (noticed this during the first 100 miles, apparently before my dealership took delivery, the dealer where first rec'd did something to the clutch cylinder thingy.

-Replaced drivers window motor- dang thing just died.

-replace cruise control switch-well, actually not yet done, they ordered the wrong part, but this was also broken since took delivery

This is all in addition to the standard service.

Now, the only thing that I could possibly fault the service department with was the wrong cruise switch being ordered.

The rest of the issues I had with my car were either caused before I took delivery (assuming while at first dealer) or just bunk parts. I by no means take this out on the salesman, or the service department.

BUT...when they replace something as expected it is tough to exceed any of my expectations as a customer. If they say they will fix part A and they do, that is what I expect, I have no problems with that, but that in itself does not warrant a 100% in my book, other than being satisfied with the job they did, well, actually, that one answer would be 100% satisfied, but when they start comparing to other dealers it makes it tough, all the dealers that I have been to for my various cars were all very good, so when you say that they are on the same level as the other shops that in my mind means really good, if the upper folks at the company don't agree, tell them to get off their duffs and go check out other dealers, almost all are top-notch these days.

I will recommend the dealer to others, as I already have several times.

Just in general I have a big problem with how companies rate the surveys. My company did a huge one that we all ripped apart and told them how bad it sucked, yet they still base all their decisions off of it, thus getting even worse ratings next time around. The dealership can't really exceed expecations unless they actually picked me up and gave me a coffee and a breakfast sandwich when I go the the dealership. The problem with that would be the next time I go in for service, it would be expected, thus getting just a good or average rating, which in my mind is a-ok. If they didnt give that 120% service everytime, by doing more for me than possible, the survey results will change.

I would love for the folks that either write the surveys, or put so much stock into the results, have their compensation be based soley on the results of other employees that are judged by it.

/get off soapbox


ps. I like my dealership, the folks that work their, and sell the cars and fix the cars, I will continue to go there, and in the mean time, give them good reviews on the surveys, but I think surveys unless worded very well, suck.
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Old 07-15-2002, 12:16 PM   #21
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I agree the system sucks. I was once fired from a honda dealership because my scores were lower than they liked.
I do my best to help the customer but the dealerships base every thing on those scores. So remeber when your filling out those surveys to think of the people it affects. If your mad at Subaru, giving the dealer a bad survey won't hurt anyone but the deI guess what i'm trying to say is if you have a problem with the dealer voice it to them and let them try to help. If you have a problem with Subaru don't hurt the dealer who is trying to help you.
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Old 07-16-2002, 02:45 AM   #22
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Default Um... check this out...

... one of my first i-club threads:

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...hreadid=205746

I will not be recommending this dealer to anyone except my enemies.

BTW, I just got a call similar to the one you got today on my answering machine. I just giggled a little and looked through my mail, and there it was, THE SURVEY...

I will be well beyond the 3rd standard deviation... SORRY!
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Old 07-27-2002, 05:16 AM   #23
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The thing that sucks about that system is the saleman has to beg the customer for his pay. I mean, that's heartless to make a salesman go through.

On the other hand, all the salesman are like "If you don't give me 100%, you're taking money away from me." Which is crap. The money from a 100% is a "bonus" not a given.

Assuming the person filling out the form knows it affects only the salesman (the most dignified/sensible/non-sleazeballish of which would actually fail more often) there's nothing wrong with a non-100.

"You're taking money from me!"

BULL!!!!

"I'm not giving you a bonus."

Ideally, the saleman should not be allowed to directly ask the customer to give any score. There should be a score card of which one of them is the salesman. (the others could be quality of product, service, parts, etc).

Basically the higher that salesman averages, the more bonuses he gets. But it shouldn't be set up such that you have to get 100% everytime just to earn an honest day's labor. A-inflation indeed. It's like the olympics , why do they all compete and fall within the range of 9.1-10.0?!? I mean, what the heck's the other 9 numbers for? That's why they're always 9.997 9.989 etc... because they cut it so close.

How about 70% being average/ good enough again?!?! (whoops, that slipped out)
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Old 08-16-2002, 07:26 PM   #24
imprezton
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Default What about the star salesmen?

I think there are some who still aren't getting what Cirrus is trying to say.

In statistics, we eliminate the "outlying observations" from the center of the bellshape curve, both the unusually positive and unusually negative. Once a reliable section of the curve is pulled out, you will find that there are salesman that are outstanding, say, the top 10%, salesmen that are deplorable, the bottom 10% and those salesmen in between who run the spectrum between unacceptable and very good.

If I'm forced to give an average salesman 100% to save his bonus, what's the incentive for the one who always goes the extra mile for his customers?

Not a knock on salesmen, rather a crtique of a useless survey system.
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Old 08-16-2002, 10:59 PM   #25
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i am definitely going to tell ym salesman give me something and you will, the day of the purchase a dent some how formed after the cleaning crew cleaned it. he said you did it and shooed me off the lot
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