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Old 11-01-2009, 10:57 AM   #1
Jhovany
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Default Dynojet vs Mustang Dyno

I was looking over my past dyno sheets and I came across these two dyno charts and I thought it was pretty interesting! I just thought I would share just for the heck of it. A couple of circumstances, these two particular runs were done at two TOTALLY different location (heck even different states and elevations), car had the same mods at the time of both dyno runs! Whats interesting is that on the Mustang Dyno run the solid lines are on race gas(100oct) and on the dynojet run it was strictly pump gas(91oct)........ENJOY!!!!







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Old 11-01-2009, 01:50 PM   #2
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pretty much just shows that the "Dynojets read 15-20% high" slogan is correct.
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Old 11-01-2009, 02:40 PM   #3
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Wait so a Dynojet reads higher than a Mustang? You would think someone would have noticed this before. Good to know.
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Old 11-01-2009, 02:50 PM   #4
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lots of people know that the dynojet is one of the highest reading dyno...

highest reading: 1 dynojet
2 mustang
lowest reading: 3 dyno dynamics
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Old 11-01-2009, 04:10 PM   #5
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Thought I'd chime in as I was quite the dyno hopper on the stock turbo.

Everyone, especially newbs need to know that mustangs, dynodynamics, and dynojets can be tampered with.

Anyway, all in the same week with the same tune vf43 w/c16:

A mustang Dyno with its original installed settings from the company:

304 whp
331 With a 1.1 correction

On a dynojet:

363 0 correction
371 SAE
381 STD

Airboy: 336whp


Dyno dynamics

310 whp on Dyno dynamics 1.0.

A dyno dynamics has a CF thats defined by the user. 1.2 is usually used as it displays a dynojet (most common of dyno's) relative number.

Not by opinion, but by simple math (sea level) the dynojet with SAE correction reads the most realistic. And here is why:

An AWD drivetrain usually suffers a 20% drivetrain loss +/- 1%.

At sea level, an sti on a dynojet SAE usually reads between 235-240 peak whp.

300*.2 = 60. 300-60 = 240.


This is why I do not understand why airboy or mustang or DD1.0CF Crtisize 1.2 dynodynamics or dynojet numbers.




Day in and day out on PPB people knock high numbers. In all reality, who cares about the actual numbers, I only care about track numbers and by how the car feels. BUT, by way of easy math, mustang dyno's with no correction as well as dynodynamics 1.0 read retarded with their 195-215whp stock sti's.
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Old 11-01-2009, 05:17 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by STi Mikey View Post
Day in and day out on PPB people knock high numbers. BUT, by way of easy math, mustang dyno's with no correction as well as dynodynamics 1.0 read retarded with their 195-215whp stock sti's.
i dont knock high numbers or low numbers, i just try to educate the newbs.

To someone who doesnt know about dynos it appears to them that the shops/tuners with Dynojets can build better setups and tune better than shops with other dynos.

And it just doesnt make sense when you say this out loud..."bro, i know the dyno says 400 whp but you should just take that number and multiply it by 20% and tell people your car makes 480 whp"

Quote:
Originally Posted by STi Mikey View Post
300*.2 = 60. 300-60 = 240.

BUT, by way of easy math, mustang dyno's with no correction as well as dynodynamics 1.0 read retarded with their 195-215whp stock sti's.
what gasoline does subaru use to make that 300 crank hp claim?

where is their engine dyno? whats the atmospheric pressure there?

By using that math and claiming that 200 whp is low you're assuming that Subaru used 93 octane and that the motor in your car would do 300 hp on an engine dyno
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Old 11-01-2009, 06:54 PM   #7
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I'm pretty sure the Dynojet that the OP ran on was in NM at altitude. Since they applied the SAE correction factor, that inflated the numbers by roughly 20%, so that significantly skews the comparison. So while a DJ does usually read higher than a Mustang, it is not by the margin suggested here.

The problem with comparing dynos is that most can have end user adjustments applied. A Mustang can read the same as a DJ or it could read higher or lower. I've seen examples of here and elsewhere on both sides. The same goes for Dyno Dynamics. I know of several Mustang dynos that are calibrated by their owners to read like a Dynojet because the DJ is sort of a defacto industry standard.

It's an old saw, but a dyno is a tool. That is it. Compare before and after results on the same dyno. No one goes around comparing how different brands of compression testers read, yet there is variance from brand to brand and unit to unit.
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Old 11-01-2009, 09:54 PM   #8
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Ughhh... dyno numbers. They frustrate me.

There are sooooo many people that can be swayed by high reading dyno numbers. When people ask me I almost dont want to say. Subaru says rates the STi at 300hp. But my stock turbo STi with catless TBE, fuel pump, intake, etc makes 285 whp on 91 octane on Eds road dyno software (comparable to mustang and airboy).

What should I tell people??? If I tell them its 285whp they think my car is weak. If I tell them its 370 (crank hp) they will think I'm lying. Do I not give a number and tell them that its 60whp over stock?

meh, whatever. I usually just give take them for a ride and then they recognize
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Old 11-01-2009, 10:18 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phatron View Post
what gasoline does subaru use to make that 300 crank hp claim?

where is their engine dyno? whats the atmospheric pressure there?

By using that math and claiming that 200 whp is low you're assuming that Subaru used 93 octane and that the motor in your car would do 300 hp on an engine dyno
There are SAE standards now for measuring and reporting horse power by the OEMs. It changed a few years back from each OEM doing their own thing to them all following the same procedures and standards in the US. In theory, 305 hp from Subaru is the same as 305 hp by GM, though the shape of the curves may be different.

Interesting to note how much quicker the Mustang loads and hence, spools the turbo.
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Old 11-02-2009, 09:11 AM   #10
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As a tuning aid, there are some good dynos out there and that's what's important...getting cars tuned properly.

Unfortunately the chassis dynos take actual units of measure (Horsepower (HP) and Torque in lbs per foot or newtons per meter etc.) and make a joke of them by "interpreting" units of measure that are not meant to be interpreted or altered. They might as well just have power and torque listed as the axes with no units of measure. That way when numbers from one place to the next are different it wouldn't mean that AT LEAST one of the dynos was plain wrong. LOL This is without getting into people altering their dyno so it reads higher or lower on purpose.

I've used Dynojet, Dynomite (Land/Sea), Dyno Dynamics, Mustang and Dynapak chassis dynos and the disparity in readings between them all is enormous. If 1 foot was 20% longer one place vs. another just imagine the issues that would cause.

When guys need dyno charts for classing for road racing they come here so their numbers are lower than guys who dyno elsewhere on higher reading dynos. This allows them to run in a class with cars that make less power. The irony of this is that with variances of over 20% from dyno to dyno you can have cars in a harder class that make significantly LESS power than cars in an easier class.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bugeyesubie View Post
lots of people know that the dynojet is one of the highest reading dyno...

highest reading: 1 dynojet
2 mustang
lowest reading: 3 dyno dynamics
In my experience that's not the case. My Mustang dyno reads lower than my Dyno Dynamics did, but I can't say that a Mustang dyno will always read lower than a Dyno Dynamics because they're all different. Someone posted a Mustang dyno that read higher than a Dynojet because it had been monkeyed with. I've see the same with Dyno Dynamics. I've also been on a Dynojet that had been messed with and read a lot higher than other Dynojets (10+%).

Last edited by Innovative Tuning; 11-02-2009 at 09:17 AM.
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Old 11-02-2009, 09:30 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by STi Mikey View Post
Thought I'd chime in as I was quite the dyno hopper on the stock turbo.

Everyone, especially newbs need to know that mustangs, dynodynamics, and dynojets can be tampered with.

Anyway, all in the same week with the same tune vf43 w/c16:

A mustang Dyno with its original installed settings from the company:

304 whp
331 With a 1.1 correction

On a dynojet:

363 0 correction
371 SAE
381 STD

Airboy: 336whp


Dyno dynamics

310 whp on Dyno dynamics 1.0.

A dyno dynamics has a CF thats defined by the user. 1.2 is usually used as it displays a dynojet (most common of dyno's) relative number.

Not by opinion, but by simple math (sea level) the dynojet with SAE correction reads the most realistic. And here is why:

An AWD drivetrain usually suffers a 20% drivetrain loss +/- 1%.

At sea level, an sti on a dynojet SAE usually reads between 235-240 peak whp.

300*.2 = 60. 300-60 = 240.


This is why I do not understand why airboy or mustang or DD1.0CF Crtisize 1.2 dynodynamics or dynojet numbers.




Day in and day out on PPB people knock high numbers. In all reality, who cares about the actual numbers, I only care about track numbers and by how the car feels. BUT, by way of easy math, mustang dyno's with no correction as well as dynodynamics 1.0 read retarded with their 195-215whp stock sti's.
Your numbers illustrate the difference from one dyno to the next well so thanks for sharing.

However, I disagree with your statement that AWD cars suffer about 20% power loss. It's not a fixed percentage. The driveline loss on a manual tranny car doesn't change from 60 WHP when making 300 crank HP to 200 WHP when making 1000 crank HP. It also doesn't stay the same regardless of speed. As wheel speed increases, losses increase due to increased heat and friction. The same goes for the dyno which is why many dynos allow coastdown testing to determine the parasitic loss of power at each speed.
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Old 11-02-2009, 10:28 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Innovative Tuning View Post
However, I disagree with your statement that AWD cars suffer about 20% power loss. It's not a fixed percentage. The driveline loss on a manual tranny car doesn't change from 60 WHP when making 300 crank HP to 200 WHP when making 1000 crank HP.

WOW very interesting statement, I understand what you are saying!
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Old 11-02-2009, 11:52 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robertrinaustin View Post
There are SAE standards now for measuring and reporting horse power by the OEMs. It changed a few years back from each OEM doing their own thing to them all following the same procedures and standards in the US. In theory, 305 hp from Subaru is the same as 305 hp by GM, though the shape of the curves may be different.
I understand that.....but to be able to start with 300 hp to do the "drivetrain loss" calculations you have to know how the 300 was achieved.

which octane gas? what iat? what atmospheric pressure is this certified sae dyno at?

87, 89, 91, 93, 95?

if the 300 rating is done on 93 octane, then you're on 91 octane using 300 - power on 91 = drvietrain loss, then its inherently wrong because 300 would no longer be your crank hp.

if the SAE test was done at 30* F, 14.7 atm, on 93 octane and your on a dyno at 95*, 14.2 atm, on 91 octane then how relative/meaningful is the 300 crank hp baseline? useless.

Last edited by Phatron; 11-02-2009 at 12:01 PM.
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Old 11-02-2009, 09:36 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Innovative Tuning View Post
Your numbers illustrate the difference from one dyno to the next well so thanks for sharing.

However, I disagree with your statement that AWD cars suffer about 20% power loss. It's not a fixed percentage. The driveline loss on a manual tranny car doesn't change from 60 WHP when making 300 crank HP to 200 WHP when making 1000 crank HP. It also doesn't stay the same regardless of speed. As wheel speed increases, losses increase due to increased heat and friction. The same goes for the dyno which is why many dynos allow coastdown testing to determine the parasitic loss of power at each speed.
Dyno dynamics @ 1.15 CF
Stock 2007 STi: 227WHP on 5th gear
Another 2007 STi: 390WHP on 5th gear
On a same day, cant we assume they had the same % power loss? or more torque = more loss? if so, is there a graph somewhere
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