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Old 11-02-2009, 01:58 PM   #1
Imprezed04
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Impreza WRX STi Intake Collapsing

Alright, so I tried to tune my car this weekend for about 20-22psi, which I'm capable of running without needing meth or larger injectors on my turbo. However, the problem I'm running into is I have a Gimmick 3" Intake Tube and because the turbo is pulling soo much air at that boost level, I create a negative pressure inside the intake tube, thus, causing it to collapse on itself and choke off the air to the car. Does anyone have any way to keep this from happening?

So far, what I've got planned is, I went to Lowes and purchased a 3"x24" galvanized pipe that connects to itself. What I'm planning on doing is cutting it to the right length, trimming the edges off of it that connect to eachother and basically sleeving my intake tube with it. Then securing it in place with 3-4 Hose Clamps around the tube, and drilling the metal out where the ports are in the hose so that pcv valves and what not get the air they need etc to read properly.. Anyone think this is a bad idea? or have a better way to fix this problem? Feel free to hit me up.
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Old 11-02-2009, 02:01 PM   #2
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i dunno. I ran 22 psi all the time and never ran into that problem. of course i had an AMR intake with the GMS turbo inlet hose, so perhaps having a full floppy hose system would cause that problem.
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Old 11-02-2009, 02:24 PM   #3
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This is why I stay away from silicone piping.
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Old 11-02-2009, 02:49 PM   #4
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unfortunately it was in the car when I got it, so I'll work on adding that pipe inside it to help with reinforcing it..
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Old 11-02-2009, 03:10 PM   #5
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Switch to a perrin. I have had no problem with the perrin collapsing at 19.8 psi with the 20g.
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Old 11-02-2009, 03:13 PM   #6
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Check air filter, make sure it's clean... I've heard/seen this but primarily becaus of unusually dirty airfilter.
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Old 11-02-2009, 03:16 PM   #7
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This reminds me that I need to clean my air filter. It hasn't been cleaned since before I deployed.
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Old 11-02-2009, 03:28 PM   #8
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What intake are u running Rob? Marlons was collapsing because he was running his stock airbox at 20+ psi. I sold him my perrin and hes back in the game.
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Old 11-02-2009, 03:40 PM   #9
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I have written about this issue many times. The pipe is just to flimsey. On my car at 19psi+ it would suck shut so tight that the boost would actually drop to 5psi and the car would fall flat on its face.

Even with the early Perrins they would collapse. Perrin now adds wire to the mold to keep the pipe open...I have emulated this by taking bailing type wire and tightly wrapping the section that collapses, I used some spacing between the turns to allow the tape to bond, then to hold the wire in place I use rubberized tape also know as vulcanising tape. The rubber tape becomes one with itself to produce a layer around the bailing wire(Vulcan get it,Trekkie fans?). This mod makes the pipe almost solid.

So far so good with older style perrin and 24psi almost 400g/s air flow.
FYI throw your Gimmick hose away if you have a larger then stock turbo.
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Old 11-02-2009, 04:16 PM   #10
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stuff it with marshmallows.

Should be fine.
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Old 11-02-2009, 04:17 PM   #11
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no don't throw the gms turbo inlet pipe away on anything larger then stock turbos, i'm running a vf 39 at almost 22psi and have yet ever had it collapse on me, but i'm also not running the stock air box either and that is going to make a big difference, i've got a k&n typhoon intake on mine with no problems what so ever, so to just say it don't work is inaccurate, have people had issues like collapsing yes, is it fixable with larger then stock turbo's...ummm hell yes its fixable. if you have an intal and your filter is caked on with dirt then clean it, if you have the stock air box then replace it, its easier to put in a air intake then it is to constantly r&r the turbo inlet pipe. just my .02
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Old 11-02-2009, 05:45 PM   #12
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None of the cases I have seen were stock air boxes or blocked filters. I have an oversized K&N type filter and prior to that had the Perrin foam filter. In my opinion its not actually an issue with the filter but rather the flow speed and density of the air. In other words the pipe is the actual restriction not the filter. The gimmick pipe is actually slightly smaller as well where it collapses. This would explain why in the winter the pipe is more likely to collapse completly to where we notice it.

Tribal I would be willing to bet a used gimmick inlet tube that yours is collapsing enough for you to maybe not notice, but if we looked at your air flow we would see the air flow drop. I'm sure its a restriction, if you want post up a log showing your g/s, and rpm during a 3rd gear WOT pull I could calculate the flow against what that turbo should be pulling and also plot the air flow curve.

BTW -- Imprezed04's pipe is not collapsing all the way in fact he would not have known until we looked at the logs. No matter what this car will not pull more that 220g/s through the intake even at 20+PSI with the bigger turbo. Slower car was the only other indication. The only other possibles are TMIC or exhaust restriction.

Think about this... If the pipe doesn't collapse all summer yet only in cold, or if you have a less that clean ar filter that causes it; then your just on the edge from the start. There is no overhead here, the pipe is still being the restriction or very close to being the restriction.

One last bit to think about...The Suby engineers went with a hard pipe on the inlet for a good reason. Every inlet pipe maker now(except Gimmick) is adding wire to the pipe, more thickness, or going full solid pipe to solve this issue.

Take it or leave it, I have enough proof for myself to never advise anyone to use this hose.
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Old 11-02-2009, 06:00 PM   #13
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fair enough turbosetch, u have very valid points, as for my logs the pull to red line my g/s never dip or stay stagnant at one spot, i'll run upwards to 275-285 g/s, i'll do some logs tonight to see what its been doing since its gotten colder out, but i will say this, mine will pull hard all the way through 5th gear and not feel like its letting up at all...ask the owner of a silver with black stripes challenger how i know this...

but again from my experience with it so far i haven't had an issue, but will log it tonight
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Old 11-02-2009, 07:18 PM   #14
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Default Re: Intake Collapsing

Well that doesn't sound to bad plus just noticed your still on a stock size turbo. Even the vf39 isn't a major air mover. I never said it won't work with stock turbos. Let see what you log in the cold. Should be close to max voltage with vf39 and 22psi.

Look for a large drop in voltage ramp up with rpm.
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Old 11-02-2009, 07:58 PM   #15
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Marrshmallowwwsssss.
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Old 11-02-2009, 08:02 PM   #16
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Impreza WRX STi

Quote:
Originally Posted by coqui2004miguel View Post
What intake are u running Rob? Marlons was collapsing because he was running his stock airbox at 20+ psi. I sold him my perrin and hes back in the game.
Its the Gimmick 3" silicone intake hose (much like the one on Robs's (now marlons) old car) Due to the fact that Tank was working on both cars they both were setup very similar.
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Old 11-02-2009, 08:03 PM   #17
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none of the vf series turbos are what you call a major air mover, specially compared to a rotated setup, but it'll work fine on other turbos like 16g and 18g, and if it was collapsing on those the easiest and cheapest fix is a couple of well placed hose clamps
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Old 11-02-2009, 08:04 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MGAMAN View Post
Marrshmallowwwsssss.


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Old 11-02-2009, 08:05 PM   #19
TurboSetch
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@Tribal

Ur a wrx right? Your MAF limit is around 295g/s ... Your ECU limit is 300g/s. So unless you have done the bigger MAF tube with the load hack on the ECU your pretty much maxed out.

I went back and looked at my logs and I can see the pipe would start to collapse for me around 240g/s then full suck shut at 310g/s. Comparing those logs to ones taken right after I can see a nice difference prior to the full collapse. More g/s at lower rpm which means better VE (volumetric efficency). BTW --- This is with a 52lb turbo (gt3076r)..

Boost PSI is not the true indicator here...For instance a vf-39 flows about 460CFM at 18 PSI. If you do the math 280g/s * 60 = 16800 grams per min then take 16800 / 36.53 = 460 CFM .... Keep in mind there are a dozen other things you have to calulate like VE at various RPM's etc. But based on this it looks like your in the ball park.
I think a gt3076r is 650cfm at 14.5psi...Not sure.
We could figure some more out here but the question is what PSI and RPM are you at when you see the max reading? I expect that turbo to fall in PSI as you approach redline.

Check this out for good info if your curious.

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1265801
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Old 11-02-2009, 08:20 PM   #20
Imprezed04
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So, would you think that me adding galvanized pipe to the inside and drilling out the holes for the ports would be an acceptable fix for this? I understand you guys are discussing what happens etc., but Between Setch and myself this is what we got going on.. I hit 18+ psi, on the VF-34, and my Gimmick 3" Silicone Hose literally collapses on itself, choking off the air to the car, causing it to fall on its face.. I'll check the filter and see what she looks like, but it looked pretty clean the other day when he and I were looking at it..
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Old 11-02-2009, 08:23 PM   #21
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well yeah she'll drop some psi before hitting redline, but usually around 3 maybe 4 at most and holds anywhere from 17 to 18 psi, i looked at the log its running 21.4 psi not 22psi sorry about that, hell all she wants to do is pull all the way up, i don't feel any let off
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Old 11-02-2009, 08:36 PM   #22
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Numbers are good. Maybe your one of the lucky gimmick owners. Its a good thing your not flowing more anyway because you wouldn't be able to meter it.

@Imprezed04

If you add some sort of inserted pipe to may introduce turbulence from the edges of the insert. Not sure. Use the bailing wire or the hose clamps for now and order a better pipe. No matter what when you upgrade the turbo your going to need it.

PLEASE be cautious with this car. My name is on it now to, the built motor can take a lot of abuse but you still can blow it up. Keep the boost down to 15psi until we work the issues out. When that hose or what ever starts blocking up the air flow your fuel AFR's are also going to get screwed up a little. Mine would go lean to the tune of .5 points or so. You also had feedback knock correction of -8 degrees at 5000rpm and up when running higher boost. <<<Thats not good for the motor although the ECU is correcting itself.

Just stay cool and get it fixed right and your cars gonna go fast!
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Old 11-02-2009, 08:47 PM   #23
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yeah if i decide to go any further with it mod wise, specially with turbo size, it's getting a big maf on it, but currently its going to stay this way for a while
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Old 11-02-2009, 08:55 PM   #24
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as I said, my GMS inlet hose handled the 22+ psi on the 20G all summer without issues.
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Old 11-02-2009, 09:52 PM   #25
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Oh yeah....hmm.

If we need to further drive this home I can link to about 100 more threads with the same complaints. My guess is some people get lucky with the fitment twist/bends etc at it manages to stay open. Mine also ran fine (sort of) in the summer as I mentioned. Until I knew it was a problem I guessed at other items like TMIC and exhaust being the restriction...not the case as it turned out.

My opinion stands GMS inlet tube = JUNK.

I'm sure the vendors love to sell them since they are cheap but it seems we get what we pay for in this case. At the very least GMS should man up like Perrin did and at least admit the problem and warn people.

Note the part where they say "A very small but damaging issue we had with some of our parts was the reports of them collapsing." :

http://www.perrinperformance.com/pro...gory=3&model=2

LOL if this is happening to a hose that is twice as thick (which it is or more) as the GMS hose, then is IS an issue. All vendors are doing by selling junk like this is without warning is killing there own rep.

I'm done. Take it or leave it.

Last edited by TurboSetch; 11-02-2009 at 10:02 PM.
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