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Old 11-03-2009, 02:00 AM   #1
Phatron
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2006 STi GTX3582 + Meth

Default Road Tune: 2.5L + FP Green (interesting differences in tuning strategies)

Event: Road Dyno
Location: Ridgecrest, CA
Ambient Temp: 55*
Elevation: 2700 ft
Weather: dry and mildly cold
Track and Conditions: CA 178
Tires: bridgestone RE01's

Car: 2006 STi
Tuner: Phatron
Dyno Info: Airboy
Peak HP at RPM: 378 whp @ 5930 rpm
Peak Torque at RPM: 386 wtq @ 4730 rpm
Baseline hp/tq for a stock on same dyno: 179 whp / 235 tq (sti)
Target Boost: 26 psi target in rom, 24 psi target after altitude correction
Target AFR: Target 12:1 in rom, Actual 11:1 at redline. Due to dual meth.
Fuel: 91 octane + VP M1 methanol
Engine/Power Modifications: tbe, perrin headers, ur up-pipe with tial ext gate, fp green, tgv deletes, aquamist hfs5 dual meth, spearco tmic, hallman mbc+perrin ebcs, aps cai, aps inlet
Driveline Modifications: act street clutch, gruppes flywheel
Suspension Modifications: sti pink springs, beatrush engine tranny and pitchstop
Other Modifications: Audio integrations sub box and amp rack. spec-c 12L meth tank, stri gauges, lc-1



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Last edited by Phatron; 06-29-2011 at 06:36 PM.
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Old 11-03-2009, 02:11 AM   #2
crand002
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Just to be clear the only difference is 100% meth opposed to 50/50? Was there a significant ambient temp differential?

One thing that could explain this difference is your previous AFR. Paul (Yimi Sport) informed me that he liked to run 50/50 leaner at redline than 100%. We would have to ask him to chime in but my AFR's at Redline are north of 11.5 at redline with 50/50.
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Old 11-03-2009, 02:19 AM   #3
Phatron
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the "old tune" log was done 2 days ago at the same time at night. the new one tonight. I just re-hooked up my hybrid boost control tonight, so that was a difference too.....old tune log was with a Hallman MBC only.

Something has to be screwy. The engine loads on the old log dont match up with the boost levels. Same boost, lower timing, same temperature, same road, yet the Loads are completely different.

And my boost control got worse with the hybrid setup this time than with just the mbc. Im just dumbfounded and pissed off tonight.

Im gonna throw the rest of the meth in my gas tank tomorrow and do some more logs

Hopefully i'll be going to Famoso Raceway for test and tune saturday morning.....so i wanted to get some logs in and work out any bugs.
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Old 11-03-2009, 02:27 AM   #4
socalLGT
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Someone broke in to your car and swapped on a set of ported heads and some cams while you were asleep last night Ron... duh!

Seriously, pretty tough to explain what you logged. It would also be quite strange to be able to get past MTBT on just pump and meth. Ambient temp probably explains part of it but not all of it. Perhaps as crand002 mentioned, when you were running 50/50 meth/water you might have actually been pumping in too much. If there was too much water, that was displacing air-fuel as well as lowering cylinder temps too much. Now that you are basically on straight meth, all your injection volume is combustible. Add in some colder denser air and you have a recipe for more power.

I usually run 50/50 meth/water cars around 11.8-12:1 AFR. The 100% meth cars I like around 11.5:1. Water has such a high latent heat of evaporation that you have to run it a bit leaner to avoid pulling too much heat out of the combustion chambers with the injection.
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Old 11-03-2009, 02:29 AM   #5
Merp
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Well, 7* is a big change, and if you were far past MBT, you'd be throwing off the VE, and thus airflow and load. Still, I'd bet there was something else going on, the meth, IAT's, not sure. Did you check all compensations?

Were those plots done with the same smoothing factor? I've found that just 1 point can make the same plot look like either of those two graphs.

Last edited by Merp; 11-03-2009 at 02:34 AM.
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Old 11-03-2009, 02:32 AM   #6
socalLGT
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Oh and BTW, I believe the baseline numbers in Airboy are from an 06-07 WRX, not an STI.
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Old 11-03-2009, 02:59 AM   #7
Phatron
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somethings wacky.....now i dont trust anything i did today.

I guess i'll just go out tomorrow and do back to back pulls and jack the timing back up on the 2nd one.

My meth still isnt 100% meth now. I have the 12L tank and it was about 1/4 full still with a mixture of VP meth, meth i got from a friend, denatured alcohol, and water. The 3/4 i just added was 100% meth.

Maybe i just found a good mix

I only had 3 beers tonight....maybe that was my problem.

Paul, are customers allowed to rent the dyno at yimi? If so how much is it an hour?
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Old 11-03-2009, 03:25 AM   #8
socalLGT
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phatron View Post

I only had 3 beers tonight....maybe that was my problem.

Paul, are customers allowed to rent the dyno at yimi? If so how much is it an hour?
That's the problem right there Ron... don't you usually have at least a 6 pack in you when you are out tuning and logging?

The dyno is available for hourly rentals. PM me or give me a call for rates. I'll even drive the car for you and give you really bad advice
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Old 11-03-2009, 03:30 AM   #9
socalLGT
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I just looked at your timing graph a bit more closely. There is no way you were past MTBT on your old tune. Aside from the wacky peak at 4750 then dip after that timing is roughly right. The "new" tune is way low on midrange timing for a meth tune running the boost and fueling target that you have. The timing values on the logs from tonight look more like straight pump gas numbers.
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Old 11-03-2009, 11:11 AM   #10
Phatron
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^^ that peak and dip is why all this started.

That is 1.4 FLKC in there. I havent tuned in so long i forgot that the FLKC doesnt zero out when you flash, it only does it when you reset the ecu.

So i kept lowering the timing.....still knocking.....lowered again.....still knocking....i finally looked at the 4 logs and noticed it was FLKC and that it was the exact same on all 4 runs. So i reset the ecu and did the last pull.

Quote:
Originally Posted by socallgt
The timing values on the logs from tonight look more like straight pump gas numbers.
And I was thinking exactly that while i was lowering the timing. I was wondering if my meth was spraying.....but i can smell it in the cab.

Well, at least this makes me hopefull that i should pick up some more power adding that 4-7* back in the midrange.
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Old 11-03-2009, 11:17 AM   #11
Bullwinkle1983
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What is the difference between intake temps between the two days tuning sessions?
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Old 11-03-2009, 11:39 AM   #12
Phatron
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i can look at the logs when i get home, but iirc about 2*

old tune - 10-31-2009 between 10pm and midnight

new - 11-2-2009 between 9pm and midnight

it was in the mid 50's both times
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Old 11-03-2009, 04:54 PM   #13
BUILTSTI
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Hrmm...

I think you need to WOT log on both maps again..
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Old 11-03-2009, 10:48 PM   #14
Phatron
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Just did the logs literally 5 minutes apart.

Last edited by Phatron; 06-29-2011 at 06:38 PM.
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Old 11-03-2009, 10:53 PM   #15
BUILTSTI
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which is which?
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Old 11-03-2009, 10:58 PM   #16
Phatron
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sorry.... the higher midrange tq/hp on all 3 is the higher timing.

only difference between the two runs is the timing.

Last edited by Phatron; 11-03-2009 at 11:04 PM.
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Old 11-03-2009, 11:07 PM   #17
2000max
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Was this all done on the same exact flat stretch of road?
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Old 11-03-2009, 11:08 PM   #18
Phatron
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yes. i use the same road everytime. have for about 2 years.
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Old 11-03-2009, 11:08 PM   #19
Junior2JZ
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I hate timing... . .
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Old 11-03-2009, 11:13 PM   #20
Phatron
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^^ im probably gonna take it out. car doesnt really feel different w/o it.

still need to put in my wg spring and put on my greddy bov.

i want boost!!!! need atp35.

anyone got 1 fo sale?
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Old 11-03-2009, 11:15 PM   #21
Junior2JZ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phatron View Post
^^ im probably gonna take it out. car doesnt really feel different w/o it.
I rather make 20 less ftlbs and 20 less whp and know that it will always be consistent vs good for 1 or 2 pulls and then pulling timing.
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Old 11-03-2009, 11:22 PM   #22
BUILTSTI
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phatron View Post
^^ im probably gonna take it out. car doesnt really feel different w/o it.

still need to put in my wg spring and put on my greddy bov.

i want boost!!!! need atp35.

anyone got 1 fo sale?
FP RED FTW!
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Old 11-04-2009, 07:36 AM   #23
STi Mikey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phatron View Post
^^ im probably gonna take it out. car doesnt really feel different w/o it.

still need to put in my wg spring and put on my greddy bov.

i want boost!!!! need atp35.

anyone got 1 fo sale?
Very happy to see you coming out to play again Ron. Did you take your car add offline yet?
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Old 11-04-2009, 09:17 AM   #24
Kastley85891
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Nice Ron, bet she rips
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Old 11-04-2009, 11:30 AM   #25
Phatron
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Quote:
Originally Posted by STi Mikey View Post
Very happy to see you coming out to play again Ron. Did you take your car add offline yet?
no. only one guy has even asked me about it.

i told him that i didnt even know if i'd take $28k (blue book +$3k) and i never heard back from him.

i have over $3k in stereo equipment alone. too much money to just give away. i'd venture about $20k total into the car.

im gonna search the classifieds for a Red, dom4 or atp35 for a couple months. then i'll be done. or start doin some suspension here and there
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