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Old 11-12-2009, 04:02 PM   #1
Super_HKS
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Default I am sorry guys but I do feel the need to speak about something

********PLEASE READ THIS WHOLE POST ENTIRELY AND READ THE BOTTOM BEFORE POSTING A REPLY PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!#$@#$@#
Mods, I am not going to make this into a thread of OMG no more cruises. Or OMG I want to allow cruises again! This is simply my view and perspective of our little Subaru community in the past couple months.


I do not speak for everyone on here obvious but in the past couple months; I have really noticed a shift in the whole Subaru NW scene. Especially in our NWIC section. The NWIC section has always had its little escapades and little episodes but I feel that there have recently been sooo many differnet boiling points to finally lead up to these most recent issues.

I have been in the Subaru community for about 2+ years now and have been pretty active on the forums and in the live community as far as meets/cruises/drives/ what ever else is concerned. As of recent, I feel that our community is being over runned and ruined by a bunch of immature and inconsiderate people. When I say these two words, I am refering to people of all age and gender. I will specifically map out a couple of these examples without mentioning any names. I do not want to fuel any flames and do not want to single anyone out so here it goes.

Cascade loop run-
-Someone passing around a blind corner almost getting stuck by a ford f350 with a camper
-Someone who decided to do burnouts/gravel drifts in leavenworth
-Someone who decided to litter out of their car while driving after leaving the twisp area
-Someone who decided to cut off a ford focus and slams on their brakes to get road rage revenge

Mill creek weekly meets-
-Lots of people who decide to go 50+ MPH in the parking lot
-Lot of individuals who hoot and hollar causing conflicts with VW and honda/acura owners (Trying to talk smack and almost getting into a altercation)
-People who decide to show up and constantly rev their cars and drift in the parking garage (Its fine to rev here and there but for 5 straght minutes. BULLOCKS!!!!!)

A tacoma meet where a few members thought it would be ok to smoke pot and/ hit up the bars while everyone was eating.

These are just a few examples of some bull **** that I have noticed int he past couple months. Like alot of fellow members on this website, I have not participated in any meets/ major events as of late for the reasons mentioned about. As funny as this is, about 9-10 members on here including myself, 12 sec hatch and a couple other guys were trying to make a so called "secerete" mill creek meet for people who want to come and have fun and not show up and have to worry about deucebaggery.

What i am getting at is this. WHY IS THE SCENE CHANGING!!!!!! Why cant it be like it was about a year or two ago where people appreciated the rules and regulations of the road and the board rules. If you want to go on a very spirited drive where there is drifting/HIGH speeds, this should be done though PM's, and or craigslist.

-Daniel
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Last edited by Super_HKS; 11-12-2009 at 06:36 PM.
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Old 11-12-2009, 04:08 PM   #2
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More and more young/immature people are getting into our scene. Just because you're young doesn't make you immature and visa versa. What does need to happen is the people who follow the rules (the majority) need to start stepping up and saying something to the people who don't follow the rules to get it to stop.


On the point that started this discussion...I have to say that I do agree with Nick's decision to ban 'cruises' as there is just too high of a risk at this point.
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Old 11-12-2009, 04:12 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Super_HKS View Post
What i am getting at is this. WHY IS THE SCENE CHANGING!!!!!! Why cant it be like it was about a year or two ago where people appreciated the rules and regulations of the road and the board rules
I know where you're coming from Daniel. I noticed this earlier this year. Subarus are becoming more and more affordable and more popular so you get more people from opposite sides of the spectrum. It kind of sucks but also a good thing to see subaru popularity rising. This a reason why me next car wont be a subaru though.. There's just too many out there and its rare to see an actual unique build..
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Old 11-12-2009, 04:13 PM   #4
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The cars are getting cheaper and a different culture is buying them. If you were around here in 2001 you would have noticed that the vast majority of the people on NASIOC and involved in the site/events were hard-core Subaru and/or hard-core rally people - there were oldschoolers and there were those of us who were into the Impreza because of the rally heritage.

Then in March of 2001, the WRX hit showroom floors, and it attracted a lot of people who would have otherwise never bought a Subaru. they were drawn to them because of marketing on behalf of Subaru, and also because at the time a ~220hp family sedan was rare and they were fairly fun to drive.

Fast forward a few years, and the WRXs started hitting the used car lots, and they were running about the same price as used Civics, but with much more power. You get the idea.

Why is the scene changing lately? Well, from where I'm sitting it's been changing for 8 years. From where Ken and Corky and Eric are sitting, it's been changing for 15 years.
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Old 11-12-2009, 04:14 PM   #5
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This makes me wish I was in the suby game earlier... I never actually went on a cruise, and haven't been to any meets yet... Though I have to say I'm turned off of them because of all the shenanigans. Not saying I don't take spirited drives, but there is a time and a place. Namely on the track or when there aren't others around.

Edit: I agree younger people are getting their hands on Subarus, and are generally less responsible with them. I mean, I'm only 18, and my bugeye has enough power to get into serious trouble if driven recklessly. Fwiw I have nothing on my driving record except a tabs violation which I got excused since the dealership I bought my first impreza from hadn't updated them or notified me. I also replaced the longblock on that car myself last summer when it spun a bearing at only 87k miles.

Sorry for the ramble; I guess I feel like I have to justify myself when I say how old I am since others my age do some stupid s***.

Last edited by ROFLBOXER; 11-12-2009 at 04:25 PM.
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Old 11-12-2009, 04:20 PM   #6
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It's a little different in Southern Oregon than it seems to be up in Washington. We had problems with people who were driving BMW's, VW's, etc., other kinds of vehicles 'hopping into' our drives and causing problems. I will agree, there were some people doing some stupid things in Subies, though, and we got told by our organizer, if it continues, NO MORE DRIVES for SOIC, period.

Part of the responsibility goes to the group members, you have to hit a point and tell these douchebags to take a hike. When you see someone smoking pot and hitting clubs while everyone else is eating, tell them to let someone else drive their car for them, or call the cops. CLEAN UP YOUR OWN CREW. If they get pissy about it, then tell them to take a hike.

And yes, we had a wreck here in SOIC, one of our 25-30 year old members (not gonna name names or give specific age) wrecked a car, nobody was hurt except the car. Our next drive was much more subdued.

I agree with Nick and the rest of the staff, and a lot of the people here, things are going to HAVE to change. Maybe it would be a good idea if there just weren't any Subaru cruises in the PNW for a while, period, to let the idiots cool down for a while?
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Old 11-12-2009, 04:23 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by 12sechatch View Post
More and more young/immature people are getting into our scene. Just because you're young doesn't make you immature and visa versa. What does need to happen is the people who follow the rules (the majority) need to start stepping up and saying something to the people who don't follow the rules to get it to stop.


On the point that started this discussion...I have to say that I do agree with Nick's decision to ban 'cruises' as there is just too high of a risk at this point.

I am young. I am 21 currently. When I first came into the Subaru scene, I was 18,19 years old. Ill admit that I have done some pretty spirited driving in very secluded places with friends. Nothing was organized by a website or a community. I rarely do those kinds of drives but I did time to time. I never went to one of those mountain runs or what ever just simply due to this fact:

30+ Subarus+ high speeds+ mountain roads+fast cars= RECIPE FOR DIASTER!!!!!!!!!
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Old 11-12-2009, 04:24 PM   #8
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Lead by example. What happening is people that have been here for a while have basically let this happen. How about telling the person what they did was wrong instead of building it up and blowing online hiden behind computer. If you see something stupid- driving 50+ in a parking lot- approach the person and explain that what they did was wrong. I'm not saying get all pissed off and get in their face, simply talk to them like a human. People make mistakes, I've made mistakes. I've driven like an ******* before and I am willing to bet that most everyone on the forum has to. Fact of the matter is if you don't like whats happening do something about it, and I'm not talking about making another thread with red words.
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Old 11-12-2009, 04:24 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Chi_San View Post
Part of the responsibility goes to the group members, you have to hit a point and tell these douchebags to take a hike. When you see someone smoking pot and hitting clubs while everyone else is eating, tell them to let someone else drive their car for them, or call the cops. CLEAN UP YOUR OWN CREW. If they get pissy about it, then tell them to take a hike.
I'd like to make EVERYONE read this so hopefully it will start to happen.
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Old 11-12-2009, 04:25 PM   #10
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Yeah, I agree, things are changing. It was weird pulling up to a north end meet last spring, with 20 cars in the parking lot, and not recognizing one single face. Now, I'm friends with quite a few of those folks. The scene is going to change, that's just unavoidable. But right now, as a whole, NASIOC has no f-ing clue how to deal with it.

I'm legitimately pissed that there aren't going to be any more cruises thanks to some asstards doing gymkhana practice on group drives, but I'm not going to go into it.

There's no magical answer to solving this problem. But at the moment, we're not even trying to fix it.
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Old 11-12-2009, 04:26 PM   #11
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I am young.
I know. My first edit of that post said young people in general. I know there are exceptions, and you are most definitely one of those exceptions Daniel.
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Old 11-12-2009, 04:28 PM   #12
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Yeah, I agree, things are changing. It was weird pulling up to a north end meet last spring, with 20 cars in the parking lot, and not recognizing one single face. Now, I'm friends with quite a few of those folks. The scene is going to change, that's just unavoidable. But right now, as a whole, NASIOC has no f-ing clue how to deal with it.

I'm legitimately pissed that there aren't going to be any more cruises thanks to some asstards doing gymkhana practice on group drives, but I'm not going to go into it.

There's no magical answer to solving this problem. But at the moment, we're not even trying to fix it.
DUDE ME too. I went to a mill creek meet a while back and I literally knew no one there. It was kind of weird. I think the regulars have been extingushed by all these new bucks.
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Old 11-12-2009, 04:29 PM   #13
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I agree with most of the statements made. Iam a young guy and fairly new to the subaru scene and most of this stuff is the reason that I don't participate in most of this "subaru community" stuff which is too bad. It'd be nice to meet and cruise with some people that want to do just that and not act like asshats while doing it.
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Old 11-12-2009, 04:30 PM   #14
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There's no magical answer to solving this problem. But at the moment, we're not even trying to fix it.
I think we are trying to fix it.

Stopping the cruises was the first step. Once we get things under control, we'll be able to have them again.

This conversation is the second step. We need to get people to start taking responsibility for this forum if it is something they respect and want to continue to see flourish. That means talking about it, and getting people to start to call people out and make sure that asshats like "flipped my car guy" never come out and drive like that again.
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Old 11-12-2009, 04:31 PM   #15
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I know. My first edit of that post said young people in general. I know there are exceptions, and you are most definitely one of those exceptions Daniel.
I think we have a LOT of exceptions around here. I don't like to admit it, but in general (not just on our drives), a lot of the reckless driving is perpetrated by younger people. I'm 20.

I drive slow because I can't afford a lawyer to fight tickets, and it would basically clean me out to pay my insurance deductible were I to wreck my car.

I'd like to keep this thread going so let's not get into personal attacks and hair-splitting.

How can we improve this community so that we don't have members who feel like it's unsafe to attend events? To me, the fact that that is happening right now is just unacceptable. This is a community, nobody should be afraid to participate.
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Old 11-12-2009, 04:32 PM   #16
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I feel your frustration Daniel and totally agree. It will happen with any car group but I do feel things have changed in the short amount of time. I have met a lot of people since jumping into the Subie scene and most have become personal friends. As long as there are meets so I can meet more people I'm fine.

I also agree on the ban. I'm not going to go into details why but if I want to go on a family get together/cruise to some location I know how to get a hold of some of you. I know some of you may be disappointed or mad but we just have to go on. We learn from our mistakes as a group. All I have to say is let's just let the frustration and anger go and concentrate on building an image that makes our group better than the others so we can all be proud of being a part of something great.

Jeez, this all sounds sappy.
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Old 11-12-2009, 04:37 PM   #17
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DUDE ME too. I went to a mill creek meet a while back and I literally knew no one there. It was kind of weird. I think the regulars have been extingushed by all these new bucks.
True, but the new guys are cool, too. I go to meets to meet people and hang out with like-minded enthusiasts. They're just not the same like-minded enthusiasts I hung out with a year ago.

PS I miss the north end meets now that I'm back in ellensburg...

Quote:
Originally Posted by 12sechatch View Post
I think we are trying to fix it.

Stopping the cruises was the first step. Once we get things under control, we'll be able to have them again.

This conversation is the second step. We need to get people to start taking responsibility for this forum if it is something they respect and want to continue to see flourish. That means talking about it, and getting people to start to call people out and make sure that asshats like "flipped my car guy" never come out and drive like that again.
Excuse my cynicism. Just that whenever I read "cruises suspended indefinitely," my brain registers "cruises are done."
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Old 11-12-2009, 04:40 PM   #18
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It's refreshing to hear younger members sounding off on this, especially since "in general" those our age are less than level-headed.

On that note: I had a kid my age ask me today why I hadn't put N2O in my car yet if ive got power mods. He probably doesn't have any idea how nos works, or how to control the sudden spike in power, yet he'd be more than willing to slam that button down on the freeway. People like that give the rest of us a bad name.
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Old 11-12-2009, 04:44 PM   #19
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Horatio said it best.

With bugeyes approaching easily obtainable status ($8k) the crowd that has in the past gotten hondas for $8k sees the WRX as much better. Just now, they can afford them. Same attitudes, new cars, thus a changing scene.
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Old 11-12-2009, 04:50 PM   #20
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I have also been frustrated with all of this, I used to go to meets every few months but it has been almost a year and a half since I have been to any. I am 21, I have a stage 2 STi swapped GC, and have never received a speeding ticket nor broken my 5 speed tranny . It IS possible to have a fast, fun car and drive it responsibly, I don't know why some folks cannot get those two together. I love Subau, and I love our community still...I think.

I would suggest that meets be held still, if the community completely falls apart then I don't know what will happen with NWIC's future. I think it will take a bit of time, but if responsible members have enough guts to not put up with this stuff, I think it will weed out the bad apples from even wanting to show up. Meets could be set up with a secondary "fall back" location, it seems like the worst people just see meets driving by and join up. If those people show up, just get in your cars and go somewhere else, others may think that the meet is over and go somewhere else to loiter and be idiots.

It is sad it has come to this, but I think we all need to be patient and restrained not just to participate in this, but to not sit back and let it happen like I think many have in the last few years.
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Old 11-12-2009, 05:13 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HoratioCaine View Post
The cars are getting cheaper and a different culture is buying them. If you were around here in 2001 you would have noticed that the vast majority of the people on NASIOC and involved in the site/events were hard-core Subaru and/or hard-core rally people - there were oldschoolers and there were those of us who were into the Impreza because of the rally heritage.

Then in March of 2001, the WRX hit showroom floors, and it attracted a lot of people who would have otherwise never bought a Subaru. they were drawn to them because of marketing on behalf of Subaru, and also because at the time a ~220hp family sedan was rare and they were fairly fun to drive.

Fast forward a few years, and the WRXs started hitting the used car lots, and they were running about the same price as used Civics, but with much more power. You get the idea.

Why is the scene changing lately? Well, from where I'm sitting it's been changing for 8 years. From where Ken and Corky and Eric are sitting, it's been changing for 15 years.
I really couldn't have said it better. I'm part of the March 2001 generation and even in late 2003, I felt that the community here was changing way too much, so much that I went and started my own car club separate from NASIOC. Now, things have changed even more. It sucks, but I see it as being natural growing pains. 2002-2003 was awesome for me and it's never been the same since, but the reality is that no matter how much I wish for things to be like that again, it never will be. Thus, the only thing you can do (as was previously mentioned) is try to lead by example and stick to your guns against the asshatery and douchenozzles.

Armin

PS: That isn't to say that all the new people suck. There's definitely a lot of cool people I've met in the past couple years. It's just sad that for me personally, for every cool person I've met, I've also met 3 others that I will choose NOT to associate with.
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Old 11-12-2009, 05:28 PM   #22
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That's why I don't go to the meets anymore. Pointless.
Or just create the meets "only for year 06 and newer". Just kidding
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Old 11-12-2009, 05:32 PM   #23
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It's adults that can't act their age and immature teenagers that make me as a teenager look bad.

I guess can go back mobbing around as the Lone Rider.
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Old 11-12-2009, 05:38 PM   #24
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Another thing to consider, is open up a sub forum that the general pubic can't access. I Know a few other sites have this. You only get to access that area where meets and cruises are published based off being recommended by another member or something like that. This way we keep the general riff raff from attending.
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Old 11-12-2009, 05:42 PM   #25
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To be perfectly honest I dont have much experience in street racing. I turned my suby into a rock crawler not a race car
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