Element Tuning Hydra EMS 26, Cosworth 2.5 STi Engine, GT75 629 WHP

Element Tuning · 11-16-2009, 04:15 PM

Event: Phil Grabow Hydra EMS Tune
Location: Element Tuning, Gaithersburg, Maryland
Ambient Temp: 68.92 degrees
Elevation: Sea level
Weather: Raining
Track and Conditions: NA
Tires: Michelin Pilot

I wasn’t really sure what to call this turbocharger as it’s based off of what we call the GT75 but this is a GT series housing with a Garrett 75 lbs compressor wheel and a Tial 1.03 exhaust housing. This was changed from the FP HTA since that was damaged (oil seals).

We made a little more power on pump 93 hitting 524 whp up from about 503 whp. It did spool a little slower than the HTA but had more top end. Very impressive for pump gas especially on this dyno!

On VP Q16 power was very good. There was some boost taper and overall we wanted more boost but that’s all the WG had in it. Upon further inspection we pulled the WG apart to upgrade the springs and noticed the diaphragm was folded over so this could have caused some issues. We’ll get stiffer springs in there and turn up the boost!

Target boost will be 35 psi which this turbocharger should have no issues running. Tuning went well and power came easily with boost. So far no sign of detonation issues as boost was increased or any other difficult symptoms. We did have misfire issues the last time the car was on the dyno but that was corrected with very tight spark plug gaps.

Car: 2007 Subaru STi
Tuner: Phil Grabow, Element Tuning
Dyno Info: Dynajet
Peak HP at RPM: 629.02@7600 rpm Uncorrected
Peak Torque at RPM: 405.94@6600 rpm Uncorrected
Baseline: 08 WRX 184 whp Uncorrected
Target Boost: 25-28 psi
Target AFR: 11.3
Fuel: 93, VP Q16
Engine: Cosworth Long Block
Intake: Cosworth
Turbo: Element Garrett/Tial 75 lbs T3 1.03
Header: GT Spec?
Exhaust: 3”?
Fuel System: 1600cc, A1000 Fuel Regulator and pump
EMS: Hydra 2.6 Engine Management
Driveline Modifications: Exedy Triple
Suspension Modifications: Tein Coilovers

Again this setup has been similar to the other large turbochargers I’ve tuned with the Cosworth cams and or head package. It just doesn’t like variable cam timing advance but really big turbochargers like this are all about the top end.

On the next runs I may push the RPM a little further if oil pressure looks ok. For now I’m limiting the engine to 8k rpm but clearly it will make power to about 9k rpm

Thanks,
Phil Grabow

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Steve.804 · 11-16-2009, 06:01 PM

WOW on lots of different accounts. The power...and having 300ft/lbs of torque at 5400rpms

But when you're reving that thing out past 8k who cars??

Is this vehicle your shop car? Customers? I assume racecar only? This would be quite the handful on the street

Element Tuning · 11-16-2009, 06:04 PM

It's a street car for now and it's a customer car. She's definitely a screamer! Honestly it's too much power for this car's suspension and tires. LOL! I think an upgrade is definitely around the corner.

blowbyu24 · 11-16-2009, 06:06 PM

great looking graph phil

congrats to the owner must be a joy to drive...definitely not too much power for the street

Element Tuning · 11-16-2009, 06:13 PM

Thanks but it's not enough power

Stiffer WG spring it is! I think we should see about 700 whp when done unless the T3 exhaust housing results in too much back pressure. So far there were no signs of this so I'm optimistic that 35 psi should get us there.

juanmedina · 11-16-2009, 06:15 PM

I can't imagine daily driving this

Element Tuning · 11-16-2009, 06:20 PM

Why it's a pussycat up to 5k rpm

mashedpaters · 11-16-2009, 06:27 PM

this thing screams above 5K. Any vids of the dyno by any chance? I'd love to see this start spooling

Element Tuning · 11-16-2009, 06:33 PM

Maybe we'll work on that for the next pulls at higher boost.

CosworthSTI77 · 11-17-2009, 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blowbyu24

great looking graph phil

congrats to the owner must be a joy to drive...definitely not too much power for the street

Thank you, it is AWESOME and I have not even driven it on race gas yet ! Phil has done wonders with this car ! Will try to get some videos and a time slip here shortly of this beast !

moorebl · 11-17-2009, 11:23 PM

post some pics of this beast

Illusive · 11-18-2009, 01:31 PM

big turbo, big power. nicely done. for a street car though its a bit overkill for my tastes.

BUILTSTI · 11-18-2009, 02:37 PM

your the only person that has no issues with hydra's....

strange

john 1badSTI · 11-18-2009, 04:53 PM

^^^ I have never had a problem with any of the hydras I have tuned.

modaddict · 11-19-2009, 09:17 AM

when are you hitting full boost in 4th gear?

Look like in this graph around 5800?

The boost threshold on that looks................less than optimal.

Bimmubishi · 11-19-2009, 11:33 AM

Seems like you've contradicted yourself.

Quote:

Originally Posted by john 1badSTI

^^^ I have never had a problem with any of the hydras I have tuned.

Quote:

Originally Posted by john 1badSTI

I will chime in here and say that yes some of the early 2.17 boxes had a few issues but the 2.5(WHICH I RUN) and the 2.6 box are pretty much trouble free and are a very powerful ecu's.It all still comes down to the tuner to make an ecu as perfect at running the car as possible,bad tuner=****ty running car.

john 1badSTI · 11-19-2009, 03:25 PM

no not really because they weren't major problems just small quirks do to the earlier software that just made it a little more time consuming to get the cold and hot start dialed in,other than that the cars ran fine.

TopSpeed · 11-21-2009, 07:31 PM

What kind of boost does it make in 1st or 2nd.. Awesome numbers no doubt, but hell I have seen 42r's with faster spool.

Doug

Element Tuning · 11-22-2009, 04:37 PM

It's likely a combination of parts that increased the lag we have built similar setups that have spooled much quicker. I just have to work with what I've been given. I do my best to work with customer has and then recommend different parts if they feel an improvement needs to be made.

Just getting off the plane from Seattle after tuning multiple 600+ whp Subarus so we'll get those posts up soon. Our GT65 bolt on made over 450 whp on 92 octane with a car that didn't even have bigger valves which was very impressive at only 22 psi.

Now for me being the only person that doesn't have problems with Hydras to that I say we've sold thousands and really it's only a few tuners that really struggle and have consistent issues. I am the source and there hasn't been a car I've been flown in to sort that I haven't been able to. It's 99% of the time tuning issues. The Hydra has very advanced options and very high resolution so it takes more than an average tuner to make a difficult setup great. I'm always available to help guide tuners and when that is not enough I'm available to travel.

Thanks
Phil Grabow

rob58 · 11-23-2009, 07:46 PM

i have a hydra for sale anyone interested??

CosworthSTI77 · 03-15-2010, 11:11 PM

[IMG]

[/IMG]

This is what happens when a Cosworth head gasket blows !

Was told Cosworth gaskets are not as good as the oem gasket, it sure sucks having only 4000 miles on a longblock and this **** happening. And of course Cosworth won't stand behind their $15000.00 built engine ! Slight hydroloc also caused one connecting rod to be slightly bent, having to replace rods and block of course, thank god everything else is alright.

TopSpeed · 03-15-2010, 11:25 PM

who says cosworth gaskets aren't as good as stock?

modaddict · 03-15-2010, 11:51 PM

Can you get a high resolution pic of the piston tops?

Looks like you may have had a massive lean spot?

juanmedina · 03-16-2010, 12:01 AM

Lately Cosworth FTL

tino · 03-16-2010, 06:07 AM

wow...

What head studs do they run 11mm??? looks like what happened to my engine with a blown headgasket took a chunk out of the block and the head.. both junked (not cosworth though)..

11-16-2009, 04:15 PM	#1
Element Tuning NASIOC Vendor Member#: 54918 Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: 673 WHP Element ProComp Engine	Element Tuning Hydra EMS 26, Cosworth 2.5 STi Engine, GT75 629 WHP Event: Phil Grabow Hydra EMS Tune Location: Element Tuning, Gaithersburg, Maryland Ambient Temp: 68.92 degrees Elevation: Sea level Weather: Raining Track and Conditions: NA Tires: Michelin Pilot I wasn’t really sure what to call this turbocharger as it’s based off of what we call the GT75 but this is a GT series housing with a Garrett 75 lbs compressor wheel and a Tial 1.03 exhaust housing. This was changed from the FP HTA since that was damaged (oil seals). We made a little more power on pump 93 hitting 524 whp up from about 503 whp. It did spool a little slower than the HTA but had more top end. Very impressive for pump gas especially on this dyno! On VP Q16 power was very good. There was some boost taper and overall we wanted more boost but that’s all the WG had in it. Upon further inspection we pulled the WG apart to upgrade the springs and noticed the diaphragm was folded over so this could have caused some issues. We’ll get stiffer springs in there and turn up the boost! Target boost will be 35 psi which this turbocharger should have no issues running. Tuning went well and power came easily with boost. So far no sign of detonation issues as boost was increased or any other difficult symptoms. We did have misfire issues the last time the car was on the dyno but that was corrected with very tight spark plug gaps. Car: 2007 Subaru STi Tuner: Phil Grabow, Element Tuning Dyno Info: Dynajet Peak HP at RPM: 629.02@7600 rpm Uncorrected Peak Torque at RPM: 405.94@6600 rpm Uncorrected Baseline: 08 WRX 184 whp Uncorrected Target Boost: 25-28 psi Target AFR: 11.3 Fuel: 93, VP Q16 Engine: Cosworth Long Block Intake: Cosworth Turbo: Element Garrett/Tial 75 lbs T3 1.03 Header: GT Spec? Exhaust: 3”? Fuel System: 1600cc, A1000 Fuel Regulator and pump EMS: Hydra 2.6 Engine Management Driveline Modifications: Exedy Triple Suspension Modifications: Tein Coilovers Again this setup has been similar to the other large turbochargers I’ve tuned with the Cosworth cams and or head package. It just doesn’t like variable cam timing advance but really big turbochargers like this are all about the top end. On the next runs I may push the RPM a little further if oil pressure looks ok. For now I’m limiting the engine to 8k rpm but clearly it will make power to about 9k rpm Thanks, Phil Grabow * Registered users of the site do not see these ads.

03-15-2010, 11:11 PM	#21
CosworthSTI77 Scooby Newbie Member#: 195473 Join Date: Nov 2008 Chapter/Region: MAIC Location: Baltimore, Maryland Vehicle: 2007 STI OBP	[IMG][/IMG] This is what happens when a Cosworth head gasket blows ! Was told Cosworth gaskets are not as good as the oem gasket, it sure sucks having only 4000 miles on a longblock and this **** happening. And of course Cosworth won't stand behind their $15000.00 built engine ! Slight hydroloc also caused one connecting rod to be slightly bent, having to replace rods and block of course, thank god everything else is alright.

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11-16-2009, 06:01 PM	#2
Steve.804 Scooby Specialist Member#: 68647 Join Date: Aug 2004 Chapter/Region: MAIC Location: Richmond, VA Vehicle: 07 STI Rotated 35R Jorge Tuned	WOW on lots of different accounts. The power...and having 300ft/lbs of torque at 5400rpms But when you're reving that thing out past 8k who cars?? Is this vehicle your shop car? Customers? I assume racecar only? This would be quite the handful on the street

11-16-2009, 06:04 PM	#3
Element Tuning NASIOC Vendor Member#: 54918 Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: 673 WHP Element ProComp Engine	It's a street car for now and it's a customer car. She's definitely a screamer! Honestly it's too much power for this car's suspension and tires. LOL! I think an upgrade is definitely around the corner.

11-16-2009, 06:06 PM	#4
blowbyu24 Scooby Specialist Member#: 84482 Join Date: Apr 2005 Chapter/Region: Tri-State Location: PA / Element Tuning Vehicle: 2005 STI.UR gt4088r E85 pro comp sti	great looking graph phil congrats to the owner must be a joy to drive...definitely not too much power for the street

11-16-2009, 06:13 PM	#5
Element Tuning NASIOC Vendor Member#: 54918 Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: 673 WHP Element ProComp Engine	Thanks but it's not enough power Stiffer WG spring it is! I think we should see about 700 whp when done unless the T3 exhaust housing results in too much back pressure. So far there were no signs of this so I'm optimistic that 35 psi should get us there.

11-16-2009, 06:15 PM	#6
juanmedina Scooby Guru Member#: 133146 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: SC Vehicle: 07 FPgreen 7.37@95 WRX VF39+E85 12.0, 121mph	I can't imagine daily driving this

11-16-2009, 06:20 PM	#7
Element Tuning NASIOC Vendor Member#: 54918 Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: 673 WHP Element ProComp Engine	Why it's a pussycat up to 5k rpm

11-16-2009, 06:27 PM	#8
mashedpaters Scooby Newbie Member#: 167462 Join Date: Dec 2007 Chapter/Region: SCIC Location: socal Vehicle: 2003 wrx sedona red	this thing screams above 5K. Any vids of the dyno by any chance? I'd love to see this start spooling

11-16-2009, 06:33 PM	#9
Element Tuning NASIOC Vendor Member#: 54918 Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: 673 WHP Element ProComp Engine	Maybe we'll work on that for the next pulls at higher boost.

11-17-2009, 11:23 PM	#11
moorebl Scooby Specialist Member#: 59238 Join Date: Apr 2004 Chapter/Region: SWIC	post some pics of this beast

11-18-2009, 01:31 PM	#12
Illusive Scooby Specialist Member#: 90436 Join Date: Jul 2005 Chapter/Region: TXIC Location: Sealy, TX Vehicle: 2005 STI Obsidian black pearl	big turbo, big power. nicely done. for a street car though its a bit overkill for my tastes.

11-18-2009, 02:37 PM	#13
BUILTSTI Scooby Specialist Member#: 204644 Join Date: Mar 2009 Chapter/Region: Tri-State Location: THESHOPCT Vehicle: 2005 STi 10.7 @ 125 FPRED PUMPGAS 93oct	your the only person that has no issues with hydra's.... strange

11-18-2009, 04:53 PM	#14
john 1badSTI Scooby Specialist Member#: 77470 Join Date: Dec 2004 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: grove city ohio Vehicle: 04 sti 10.51@138.5 on e85@ 30psi--spinning	^^^ I have never had a problem with any of the hydras I have tuned.

11-19-2009, 09:17 AM	#15
modaddict Scooby Guru Member#: 95840 Join Date: Sep 2005 Chapter/Region: NWIC Location: Pasco, WA Vehicle: sold to a good bud awaiting next car	when are you hitting full boost in 4th gear? Look like in this graph around 5800? The boost threshold on that looks................less than optimal.

11-19-2009, 03:25 PM	#17
john 1badSTI Scooby Specialist Member#: 77470 Join Date: Dec 2004 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: grove city ohio Vehicle: 04 sti 10.51@138.5 on e85@ 30psi--spinning	no not really because they weren't major problems just small quirks do to the earlier software that just made it a little more time consuming to get the cold and hot start dialed in,other than that the cars ran fine.

11-21-2009, 07:31 PM	#18
TopSpeed NASIOC Vendor Member#: 78884 Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Alpharetta, GA Vehicle: Go faster at TopSpeed	What kind of boost does it make in 1st or 2nd.. Awesome numbers no doubt, but hell I have seen 42r's with faster spool. Doug

11-22-2009, 04:37 PM	#19
Element Tuning NASIOC Vendor Member#: 54918 Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: 673 WHP Element ProComp Engine	It's likely a combination of parts that increased the lag we have built similar setups that have spooled much quicker. I just have to work with what I've been given. I do my best to work with customer has and then recommend different parts if they feel an improvement needs to be made. Just getting off the plane from Seattle after tuning multiple 600+ whp Subarus so we'll get those posts up soon. Our GT65 bolt on made over 450 whp on 92 octane with a car that didn't even have bigger valves which was very impressive at only 22 psi. Now for me being the only person that doesn't have problems with Hydras to that I say we've sold thousands and really it's only a few tuners that really struggle and have consistent issues. I am the source and there hasn't been a car I've been flown in to sort that I haven't been able to. It's 99% of the time tuning issues. The Hydra has very advanced options and very high resolution so it takes more than an average tuner to make a difficult setup great. I'm always available to help guide tuners and when that is not enough I'm available to travel. Thanks Phil Grabow

11-23-2009, 07:46 PM	#20
rob58 Scooby Newbie Member#: 192024 Join Date: Oct 2008 Chapter/Region: Tri-State Location: long island Vehicle: 06 sti drag car silver, built by the shop	i have a hydra for sale anyone interested??

03-15-2010, 11:25 PM	#22
TopSpeed NASIOC Vendor Member#: 78884 Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Alpharetta, GA Vehicle: Go faster at TopSpeed	who says cosworth gaskets aren't as good as stock?

03-15-2010, 11:51 PM	#23
modaddict Scooby Guru Member#: 95840 Join Date: Sep 2005 Chapter/Region: NWIC Location: Pasco, WA Vehicle: sold to a good bud awaiting next car	Can you get a high resolution pic of the piston tops? Looks like you may have had a massive lean spot?

03-16-2010, 12:01 AM	#24
juanmedina Scooby Guru Member#: 133146 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: SC Vehicle: 07 FPgreen 7.37@95 WRX VF39+E85 12.0, 121mph	Lately Cosworth FTL

03-16-2010, 06:07 AM	#25
tino Top Scoob 019 Member#: 43630 Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Down Under Vehicle: 2004 GT40R-built 2.5 604 whp @1.8 BAR on VP109	wow... What head studs do they run 11mm??? looks like what happened to my engine with a blown headgasket took a chunk out of the block and the head.. both junked (not cosworth though)..