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Old 11-17-2009, 03:58 PM   #1
crash#2
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Default 2002 wrx with vf 48 finally got a good tune!

so the tuning experience on my car has been quite a difficult one. installed the turbo injectors and intercooler myself. went to Topspeed to get a tune by a guy who is no longer with the company. won't say much else other than is initials are SS and his name rhymes with seagull. he started me out with a base map from a car with a vf39 and tumbler deletes which wouldn't have been a problem except for one thing. the car wasn't loading on the dyno and we couldn't figure out why, after logging about 8 hours of the shops time we had to call it a day (as you can see this was going to be an expensive tune). scheduled a day to comeback the next week and limped the car home. arriving back at the shop the aforementioned tuner had not finished a car that he was supposed to do the day before so that car needed the dyno, we had to go do a road tune, he asked the owner of the shop why the motor wasn't loading and without even seeing the car the shop owner pinpointed the problem. one of the tumbler sensors had worked itself loose. if the base map hadn't been for tumbler deletes this wouldve thrown a cel and problem solved. but instead i had to pay for all this extra tune time. with the car loading correctly we proceded to do a road tune and everything seemed to be going fine. when scott *cough* i mean the tuner decided he was satisfied with the way the car was working we called it a day. without the dyno at our disposal he gave me a rough estimate of 280whp and said to attend a dyno day in the future if i need that peice of paper. well a few months later i felt like i needed to attend a dyno day after being burned by a civic si. the dyno day was Forged performance which is the shop this tuner now works at. my car was the second one on the dyno and when the dyno runs were done i made 206.5whp on a dyno dynamics dyno. "SS" looked at me and said "i tuned this?" , "yes" "stock turbo?", "no, vf48!" . he then proceeded to disapear into the office and didn't reimerge until i left and hour and a half later. disapointed by the numbers and not even being offered and explaination i decided to call Doug (the hero in theis story) the owner of Topspeed , were the car was tuned. upon hearing my experience Doug told me bring the car in asap and he would get it fixed up. and fix it he did. it was the most pleasant experience i have ever had in an automotive place of business and the best part was it was totally free. kudos to doug for restoring my faith in auto tuners and for getting the car to make power. what a guy! i recommend Topspeed as a shop and Doug as a tuner with all of my heart.

the below is a base line and final run dyno plot

this base run is "SS" 's tune: 10.2afrs and 17psi 220whp 212wtq
the runfile13 is dougs tune: 11.0afrs and 19psi 286whp 270wtq

as you can see there is a big difference. www.topspeedsales.com FTW!



mods are vf48 sti tmic 565cc injectors catted dp and sti catback. everything else is bone stock. 110,000miles on the motor.
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Last edited by crash#2; 11-17-2009 at 04:03 PM.
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Old 11-17-2009, 04:03 PM   #2
Badler
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Congrats on the newfound power! That is exactly the reason I don't like tuners in general unfortunately.
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Old 11-17-2009, 04:45 PM   #3
lowrider89
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sounds like your first tuner "Scott" was not willing to own up to his mistake... and he should not have charged your nor should have the shop for their mistake....

- my car gets protuned this coming Monday with a guy that has tuned over 1,000+ cars... i dont trust tuners with only a few years in the buisness
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Old 11-17-2009, 06:00 PM   #4
JoeyOKC
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Good info and numbers.
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Old 11-17-2009, 06:59 PM   #5
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damn dude, that guy should rethink his career or get it together. nice numbers though.
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Old 11-18-2009, 12:11 AM   #6
subydude02
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geese and i was about to follow Scott over to forged performance and get mine tuned with an upcoming vf43 tune. NOT ANYMORE!
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Old 11-18-2009, 12:18 AM   #7
nhat
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i saw the first paragraph and skipped down to the numbers. congrats, looks like a great turbo for your car. when does it hit full boost?

p.s. you might wanna format your first post http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1858764
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Old 11-18-2009, 05:42 AM   #8
02wrxdude
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hey how is your trans holding up?
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Old 11-18-2009, 09:45 AM   #9
testes1010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lowrider89 View Post
sounds like your first tuner "Scott" was not willing to own up to his mistake...

i dont trust tuners with only a few years in the buisness
He's been tuning for more than a few years under 'every-changing' business names. I've retuned several of his unhappy customers.
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Old 11-18-2009, 10:47 AM   #10
Rudywrx04
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I also have a 2.0 VF48 setup. Its a great turbo for the 2.0. Similar #s to my set up. Looks like you've got her tuned right! Graph looks good.
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Old 11-18-2009, 04:56 PM   #11
jaxscuby
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thats some serious torque from 2.0
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Old 11-18-2009, 08:26 PM   #12
crash#2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lowrider89 View Post
sounds like your first tuner "Scott" was not willing to own up to his mistake... and he should not have charged your nor should have the shop for their mistake....

- my car gets protuned this coming Monday with a guy that has tuned over 1,000+ cars... i dont trust tuners with only a few years in the buisness
doug, the guy that did the final tune and owner of topspeed counted the tunes on his computer and it was over 20,000 over half of which are subarus.
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Old 11-18-2009, 08:31 PM   #13
crash#2
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in the first tuners defense, he has put up some very impressive numbers on a number of different setups and is widely accepted as one of the best around, i was angry when i wrote this post, but justified (i should point out that doug at topspeed actually recommended i keep this between the parties involved, i decided to post on my own). the point of the thread is that Doug@topspeed truly does back up his shop and reputation even when one of his tuners has left, if he has an unsatisfied customer he does everything he can to make them happy. doug is a stand up guy and a true businessman in every sense. i would recomend his shop to anyone, and if he is a guest spot tuner at a shop near you, get your ass down there and get a tune done right! otherwise make the drive down to atl and go to topspeed.

Last edited by crash#2; 11-18-2009 at 08:38 PM.
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Old 11-18-2009, 09:59 PM   #14
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I unfortunately learned that there are alot of garbage tuners out there the hard way too.

My car made good power, but after getting a hefty bill I took it out to the street and found I was getting nice 4.5 knock counts at 20psi/4-5k rpms. Im lucky I didnt blow my motor, to be honest. I never went back to the tuner (why do I want the guy who screwed it up to 'fix' it??) and getting your money back on something like that is a waste of time..everyone knows you wont get it.

There are so many tuners that everyone here says are so great, but they don't know what they are doing. Regardless of drive, I think I would go to Akuma, EFIlogics, Topspeed, Surgline, Cobb@plano, and Subyshop... and thats it.

Cobb will give a license to anyone who can afford the buy in. Open source tuners get a couple guys to post that their tune was great, and their business is up and rolling- out of their house. The bottom line is alot of tuners out there -even the 'great ones'- dont feel like dealing with the hassles of fixing a car before they tune it. They want to spend 45 minutes on a dyno, charge you two hours+ of tuning time, take your money and get you out of their shop. Then people post, everyone wants their tuner to be great and feel like they got a good tune. I did too. So they post that their tuner was just that. Numbers are low, curves arent smooth, and now every dyno is a "heartbreaker"....or they run too much boost and push way too much timing and end up with problems... The subaru ecu is relatively forgiving, so the tuner gets away with it. The car 'feels' faster than it did before, so the customer is happy. If the tuner isn't doing a component of the tune on a road tune, I get a little suspect right away.

When you call in before a tune you need to know what is going on with your car. You need to know its set up right, with the right parts that are installed correctly. You need to know what goes into a tune, so when you get one that is all assed up, you know it before you have problems. Lots of tuners are going to fudge maf scaling, and many that say they scale it, don't do it correctly.

Again, the bottom line is this: Learn to do it yourself, correctly, or be an informed buyer. When someone gives you a bogus tune that damages your car, you will be on your own. Know what you are getting and what to look for being right or wrong.

Edit- may want to change the format of the op before the Gestapo come and lock it down.

Last edited by KurtP; 11-18-2009 at 11:33 PM.
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Old 11-18-2009, 10:05 PM   #15
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SS knows what hes doing, he gets alittle flustered and in his own way sometimes. Doug is a legit dood for sure...both would not intentially screw you. SS is a fix it to perfection type and Doug is usually more get it work type. I honestly think Topspeed was better off with both of them there to balance each other out

Every tuner in the history of this world will eventually have a customer walk away unhappy. Doug has a few of his own. Sometimes the tuner and his/her style and approach just doenst mesh well with a particular customer.

To sum, i have been tuned by both. SS was more thorough, but Doug was just putting a catless tbe tune on my sti...so im sure it didnt take as much finessing as my much more modified wrx. If you own a subaru, i would be comfortable with taking my vehicle to either.
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Old 11-21-2009, 10:12 AM   #16
crash#2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Swine View Post
SS knows what hes doing, he gets alittle flustered and in his own way sometimes. Doug is a legit dood for sure...both would not intentially screw you. SS is a fix it to perfection type and Doug is usually more get it work type. I honestly think Topspeed was better off with both of them there to balance each other out

Every tuner in the history of this world will eventually have a customer walk away unhappy. Doug has a few of his own. Sometimes the tuner and his/her style and approach just doenst mesh well with a particular customer.

To sum, i have been tuned by both. SS was more thorough, but Doug was just putting a catless tbe tune on my sti...so im sure it didnt take as much finessing as my much more modified wrx. If you own a subaru, i would be comfortable with taking my vehicle to either.
i can only agree, but i found doug to be a more personable guy and had a much better experience with him, doug knows a subaru inside and out and is much more capable at troubleshooting. my car made 206.5whp at the forge dyno day and all i got from the first tuner is "gotta do a leak down". doug inspected my car first and said it's not a mechanical problem then immediatly started laying down better and better numbers as he tuned the car. he made power not excuses.
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Old 11-21-2009, 10:15 AM   #17
crash#2
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it just felt bad when my car made bad power at the first tuners new shop and then he couldn't be found for comment. walked off. so i sat in my car with my daughter until my buddys car ran then i left. didn't see him again.
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Old 11-21-2009, 10:19 AM   #18
crash#2
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Originally Posted by crash#2 View Post
i can only agree, but i found doug to be a more personable guy and had a much better experience with him, doug knows a subaru inside and out and is much more capable at troubleshooting. my car made 206.5whp at the forge dyno day and all i got from the first tuner is "gotta do a leak down". doug inspected my car first and said it's not a mechanical problem then immediatly started laying down better and better numbers as he tuned the car. HE made power not excuses.
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