Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Friday December 26, 2014
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Home Registration is free! Visit the NASIOC Store NASIOC Rules Search Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Calendar Archive NASIOC Upgrade Garage Logout
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC Technical > Built Motor Discussion

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-20-2009, 11:42 AM   #51
CoolRex
*** Banned ***
 
Member#: 85813
Join Date: Apr 2005
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Myrtle Beach, SC
Vehicle:
2002 E46 M3
2006 RC51

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by the suicidal eggroll View Post
Nothing wrong with an MBC...in fact for a lot of people a factory controlled 3-port is MUCH more chaotic and unpredictable than an MBC on an EWG.
Indeed. Many of the electronic BCS can't get the boost to where it needs to be and at higher rpms boost tends to want to flutter. A good MBC tends to consistantly hold the boost better.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
CoolRex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2009, 12:51 PM   #52
STI_KLR
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 189660
Join Date: Sep 2008
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Silver Spring, MD
Vehicle:
'02 WRX
Element Tuning Race Team

Default

My Hallman gave me ROCK SOLID boost control.
STI_KLR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2009, 12:56 PM   #53
the suicidal eggroll
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 51961
Join Date: Jan 2004
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: Broomfield, CO
Vehicle:
2005 STi
2012 WRX

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by STI_KLR View Post
My Hallman gave me ROCK SOLID boost control.
Same here

My BCS would always leave me afraid that if I got on the gas below 3500 RPM in the higher gears I would overboost, because often it would. Cold weather would make it overboost by 5+ psi, getting on the gas too early would make it freak out and wind up the integral, then overboost when it spooled...this is after multiple revisions with a professional tuner. Then came time for the EWG and i couldn't get the BCS to do anything I wanted...it would overboost to 25 psi, then drop to 16, and stay pegged at 16 until redline despite the target being 21 and the initial and max WGDC being higher than the actual WGDC.

I installed the Hallman, made about 5 pulls to get it set right, and never touched it again. In hot weather my boost would drop by about 1 psi, but other than that it was on the nose, day after day, no matter what gear, no matter what temperature.

The only thing I might consider is adding a BCS in parallel to drop boost to wastegate pressure in the even of excessive knock, but I'll still be using the MBC to control the WOT cap.
the suicidal eggroll is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2009, 01:02 PM   #54
STI_KLR
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 189660
Join Date: Sep 2008
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Silver Spring, MD
Vehicle:
'02 WRX
Element Tuning Race Team

Default

^^^agree 100%. With a "hybrid" setup of boost control, as long as people use quality MBC's and EBCS, it can be a very effective setup and gives you the best of both worlds.
STI_KLR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2009, 01:54 PM   #55
Maxwell Power
Former Vendor
 
Member#: 190729
Join Date: Oct 2008
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Marysville, WA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by the suicidal eggroll View Post

The only thing I might consider is adding a BCS in parallel to drop boost to wastegate pressure in the even of excessive knock, but I'll still be using the MBC to control the WOT cap.

this is how I setup all my cars with EWG's. It's easier and a much better form of boost control, plus you get the protection provided by the ecu.
Maxwell Power is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2009, 10:24 AM   #56
STI_KLR
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 189660
Join Date: Sep 2008
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Silver Spring, MD
Vehicle:
'02 WRX
Element Tuning Race Team

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxwell Power View Post
this is how I setup all my cars with EWG's. It's easier and a much better form of boost control, plus you get the protection provided by the ecu.
Bingo. I always wanted to run the hybrid system - now's my change


Any estimates on what power I could be looking at w/ this setup on 93 oct? 350whp would be a nice goal.
STI_KLR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2009, 04:44 PM   #57
Maxwell Power
Former Vendor
 
Member#: 190729
Join Date: Oct 2008
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Marysville, WA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tolnep View Post

it appears from above that either a) the 2.0 'circle' is the same diameter as the 2.5 cylinder or b) the so-called 'overhang' issue is bogus..

comments?

I think the picture shows very well that the chambers are opened up dramatically. There is always a little 'overhang' as you called it. There has to be quench in a daily driven car in order for it to even idle properly. You can see that we opened it up a ton around the valves and on the side of the chamber. We opened it up to the same diameter as a normal 2.5L combustion chamber.
Maxwell Power is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2009, 04:58 PM   #58
tolnep
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 18602
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Planet tolnep
Vehicle:
2005 Moller Skycar
glow in dark purple

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxwell Power View Post
I think the picture shows very well that the chambers are opened up dramatically. There is always a little 'overhang' as you called it. There has to be quench in a daily driven car in order for it to even idle properly. You can see that we opened it up a ton around the valves and on the side of the chamber. We opened it up to the same diameter as a normal 2.5L combustion chamber.
thanks for the answer. and what compression ratio do you end up with? do you shoot for WRX CR or STI (ej257) CR or something else....
tolnep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2009, 05:53 PM   #59
Maxwell Power
Former Vendor
 
Member#: 190729
Join Date: Oct 2008
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Marysville, WA
Default

depends on what we're targeting. I cc the chambers so they all match the value we are looking for. Usually around 8.5:1
Maxwell Power is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2009, 08:24 PM   #60
STI_KLR
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 189660
Join Date: Sep 2008
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Silver Spring, MD
Vehicle:
'02 WRX
Element Tuning Race Team

Default

Add another part to the list: IAG oil catch can.
STI_KLR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2009, 08:19 PM   #61
SlverEJ20
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 157158
Join Date: Aug 2007
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Fairfax, Va
Vehicle:
05 WRX stage 2
PSM

Default

So how does it run?
SlverEJ20 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2009, 11:46 PM   #62
STI_KLR
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 189660
Join Date: Sep 2008
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Silver Spring, MD
Vehicle:
'02 WRX
Element Tuning Race Team

Default

Seems to run pretty well. Drove it about 100 miles today and I need to change the oil tomorrow morning before I do anymore driving.

Definitely much more noisy than before, but nothing I can't get used to THANK YOU IAG!!!
STI_KLR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2009, 11:58 PM   #63
Maxwell Power
Former Vendor
 
Member#: 190729
Join Date: Oct 2008
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Marysville, WA
Default

didn't do the heads huh?
Maxwell Power is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2009, 12:18 AM   #64
STI_KLR
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 189660
Join Date: Sep 2008
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Silver Spring, MD
Vehicle:
'02 WRX
Element Tuning Race Team

Default

No I did not.
STI_KLR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2009, 12:23 AM   #65
Maxwell Power
Former Vendor
 
Member#: 190729
Join Date: Oct 2008
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Marysville, WA
Default

didn't you blow up one hybrid already from detonation AND your stock block?

I can't believe you wouldn't spend the 350 bucks to have it done properly.
Good luck, I hope you enjoy building these things because it's going to happen again.
Maxwell Power is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2009, 01:05 AM   #66
STI_KLR
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 189660
Join Date: Sep 2008
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Silver Spring, MD
Vehicle:
'02 WRX
Element Tuning Race Team

Default

Thanks for the information you posted in my thread; I'm sure many people will find it useful in their future endeavors.
STI_KLR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2009, 09:10 AM   #67
tolnep
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 18602
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Planet tolnep
Vehicle:
2005 Moller Skycar
glow in dark purple

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxwell Power View Post
didn't you blow up one hybrid already from detonation AND your stock block?

I can't believe you wouldn't spend the 350 bucks to have it done properly.
Good luck, I hope you enjoy building these things because it's going to happen again.
apparently.. you can tune around slapping your 2.0 head on a 2.5 block. there's some folks in my area that are supposed to be very good at doing this..

however, i'm planning on a hybrid build next year sometime and i absolutely will not put an unmodified 2.0 head on a 2.5 block if for no other reason having a bit more insurance. i think my stock CR is 8:1, the STIs i think are 8.2:1 (not sure) and the mentioned 8.5:1 here is the CR i have been thinking about going for IF i dont do 8:2 or 8:1.

the cost to do this is insignificant in my opinion compared with all the other things you will do to get the whole thing done. my biggest issue has been finding someone to even discuss how this is done. the attitude i have found is mostly put drop-in pistons in a new 2.5 STI block, slap your heads on and get a tune and forgettaboutit... this just doesnt work for me.
tolnep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2009, 01:46 PM   #68
Maxwell Power
Former Vendor
 
Member#: 190729
Join Date: Oct 2008
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Marysville, WA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tolnep View Post
apparently.. you can tune around slapping your 2.0 head on a 2.5 block. there's some folks in my area that are supposed to be very good at doing this..
sure tuning it to prevent knock is easy. However, it results in jack crap for power. This is where a bunch of Hybrid guys come in with all their dyno graphs from their tuner and tell me I'm full of bs. What those guys don't realize is that many tuners chase the whp numbers in order to make their customers happy and inflate their own egos. Problem is, if you take that same car and do a 1-4 rip, I can pretty much guarantee it'll knock like crazy in the upper gears as heat soak sets in. This is what I call a "one gear tune". It looks great in that one gear and hits all those target numbers for torque that the hybrid guys have been missing with their 2L, but it's going to fail at some point due to detonation.

I tell customers this all the time when dealing with things like boost creep or vacuum leaks: "electronics can't make up for mechanical issues without affecting everything else"

What blows me away about this thread, is that IAG was told about this and somehow decided it wasn't needed. That decision is obviously not based on experience or knowledge in how these engines work or they decided the task was above their abilities and played it off as not needed.

Happy Thanksgiving!
Maxwell Power is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2009, 09:51 AM   #69
scprs
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 172359
Join Date: Feb 2008
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: virginia
Vehicle:
2005 STi
PSM

Default

I know for a fact that IAG's tuner does not tune in one gear. He tunes for power but does it for reliability and drivability which means in every gear. As for IAG they built a Hybrid with stock 2.0 heads and stock 2.5 block with no problems what so ever. Yes It would be better to modify the chambers but there are many many succesful hybrids that have been done without this.

Last edited by scprs; 11-27-2009 at 10:52 AM.
scprs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2009, 07:26 PM   #70
john 1badSTI
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 77470
Join Date: Dec 2004
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: grove city ohio
Vehicle:
04 sti 10.51@138.5
on e85@ 30psi--spinning

Default

^^^Yes successful but I agree with maxwell,those hybrids will not make the same usable power as a hybrid with chamber work done and when pushed to make the same power will detonate and beat out a rod brg.
john 1badSTI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2009, 12:43 PM   #71
STI_KLR
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 189660
Join Date: Sep 2008
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Silver Spring, MD
Vehicle:
'02 WRX
Element Tuning Race Team

Default

Ok, I updated the first post with a few things.

The WRX currently has ~2,200 miles on it and I'm going in for the tune by Jorge next Sunday the 20th. I picked up a Invidia V2 DP yesterday, so that will replace my current 3" shorty DP.

I also got my Skunk2 3" CBE back on Thursday. DAMN that thing is loud!





Recent pics:









-Andrew
STI_KLR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2009, 04:30 PM   #72
STI_KLR
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 189660
Join Date: Sep 2008
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Silver Spring, MD
Vehicle:
'02 WRX
Element Tuning Race Team

Default

Just got done wrapping the Invidia DP. I hate fiberglass Pics on 1st page.
STI_KLR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2009, 06:45 PM   #73
seanchristopher
*** Banned ***
 
Member#: 232371
Join Date: Dec 2009
Default

beautiful
seanchristopher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2009, 07:56 PM   #74
STI_KLR
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 189660
Join Date: Sep 2008
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Silver Spring, MD
Vehicle:
'02 WRX
Element Tuning Race Team

Default

Thanks you, sir.
STI_KLR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2009, 03:06 PM   #75
SlverEJ20
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 157158
Join Date: Aug 2007
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Fairfax, Va
Vehicle:
05 WRX stage 2
PSM

Default

Where did you get the wrap at?
SlverEJ20 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
IAG Built 2.5L Hybrid Bugeye FP 20g Turbo JDM 6-Spd Jorge Tuned STI_KLR Proven Power Bragging 52 01-10-2010 10:52 PM
Reliablity Of 2.0l heads on a built 2.5l block? rsw0124 Factory 2.0L Turbo Powertrain (EJ Series Factory 2.0L Turbo) 4 05-30-2009 06:47 PM
FS in VA: 2002 WRX with built 2.5L hybrid and GT32 Rogan MAIC Private Classifieds 31 08-11-2008 06:52 PM
Who is using AP 2.0 for a 2.5l hybrid? Acostafan AccessPort 2 06-18-2007 04:14 PM
Andrewtech built 2.5L hybrid w/ 4EAT rice wrx Proven Power Bragging 8 01-16-2007 04:32 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:24 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2014 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2014, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.