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Old 11-19-2009, 10:20 AM   #1
theboz32
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Default 3, 4 or 5 point seatbelt

Hey guys i've been lookin at buying some seatbelts for my 08 wrx hatch but I have a few questions.

1. I have stock seats. Which seatbelts should i get 3, 4 or 5 point? (for
autocross)

2. Also does brand matter? any preferred brands?

3. How do I install them? I don't have a roll cage and it's my daily driver so i need the back-seats is this still possible?

thanks guys

p.s. I'm lookin to get seats but right now my budget doesn't allow just an fyi
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Old 11-19-2009, 10:26 AM   #2
CooperS431
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I love my Scroth quick fit 4 point harness! It utilizes the rear seat belt mount points as well as the front ones and can be taken out when you need to use the rear seats and you can just use the stock belt. It's great for autocross and very simple to install/ remove.
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Old 11-19-2009, 10:26 AM   #3
Mechie3
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Scroth Rallye 4 is the best choice if you still need back seats. The 3 isn't bad, but the 4 gives more lateral support. The front and back parts quick disconnect to let you use the back seat without needing to remove a harness bar.
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Old 11-19-2009, 10:38 AM   #4
kpluiten
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Because I'm too lazy to retype this:

Quote:
4 point and 5 point harnesses are not only stupid, but downright dangerous to use on a street car.

Your regular seat belt is designed to "give" a bit in a crash. This give allows the occupants body to move forward slightly during the event which has the effect of lessening the harmful effects of the deceleration of the crash. The human body does not do well when subject to very harsh and rapid acceleration/deceleration. Additionally. the seatbelts are designed to put you in the right place for the airbag to be most effective.

When you put some stupid 4 or 5 point harness in a street car because you want to seem uber mad tyte street racer, you are installing a belt with NO give. It holds you absolutely firm. Your body/torso will not move... unfortunately, your head will. This violent motion of the head will result in VERY SERIOUS INJURY. These belt systems are intended to be used with neck protection to prevent over extension of the neck. Note what true professionals wear when they use these belts.

Now for the anecdotal evidence:
I have a really good friend who was into drifting and had a tricked out AE86 with racing harnesses installed CORRECTLY. He was driving on the street at about 40-45mph one night with the harnesses on rather than the regular belt. He fell asleep and ran off the road into a parked car. The force of the impact caused his head to violently extend forward relative to his body because he was mounted firmly in place (his torso) by the harness. This over extension actually caused him to fracture his vertabre and left him with a broken neck. Thankfully, while he will have permanent injury, he was not paralyzed.

Two of the neck injury specialists he saw told him that the injury would not have been so severe if he was using the regular stock belt (in all probability) do the the body moving as well. One doctor also told him he has seen this exact injury from using racing harnesses without the proper safety equipment (neck stabilized) multiple times in the past.
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1827312

This all being said, there may be some harnesses that are better than others if you have to use them on the street, but I have not looked into that.

I work as a vehicle safety systems engineer for a living. I'm not going to lie however in order to make a point; I do not work in seatbelts so my knowledge on the subject is rather limited. That being said, I've seen a lot of crash data and I've seen a lot of crash results. I know better than most what the body does in the event of a collision.



EDIT: Also, if you have your mad tyte harnesses and you like them, fine. I don't need to be flamed or told I'm wrong like every time I share info on racing belts for street use. People do silly, dangerous things on here every day and it doesn't effect me in the least. However, don't tell everyone there's nothing wrong with racing belts of the street simply because you've never died or you got in a crash and walked away.

Last edited by kpluiten; 11-19-2009 at 10:56 AM.
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Old 11-19-2009, 10:54 AM   #5
SurfWagon
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We had crash analysis from BMW and the Army come in and talk to us about safety equipement with motor vehicles. They said that they had looked into 3-4 point systems but always found that the stress placed on the neck was too great. Also, in a side impact, the aorta has a nasty tendency to detach with a sudden change in speed. Having less "give" only worsens this....

All that said...was the OP even suggesting that he was going to use it on the street. Sounds like an AutoX only thing.
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Old 11-19-2009, 10:57 AM   #6
CooperS431
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Yes However the Scroth DOT aprooved belts are designed to give 3in in the case of an accident. Never ever use a track harness on a street car unless you feel like wearing a helmet and a HANS device everywhere you go




Quote:
Originally Posted by kpluiten View Post
Because I'm too lazy to retype this:



http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1827312

This all being said, there may be some harnesses that are better than others if you have to use them on the street, but I have not looked into that.

I work as a vehicle safety systems engineer for a living. I'm not going to lie however in order to make a point; I do not work in seatbelts so my knowledge on the subject is rather limited. That being said, I've seen a lot of crash data and I've seen a lot of crash results. I know better than most what the body does in the event of a collision.



EDIT: Also, if you have your mad tyte harnesses and you like them, fine. I don't need to be flamed or told I'm wrong like every time I share info on racing belts for street use. People do silly, dangerous things on here every day and it doesn't effect me in the least. However, don't tell everyone there's nothing wrong with racing belts of the street simply because you've never died or you got in a crash and walked away.
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Old 11-19-2009, 10:59 AM   #7
theboz32
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yea i wasn't planning on street use but now that you mentioned all that it certainly solidifies my thoughts about it. I would only be using it for auto x.
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Old 11-19-2009, 11:13 AM   #8
kpluiten
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Good call!
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Old 11-19-2009, 11:16 AM   #9
u2_m4r1n3
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I kept my stock seat belts on for the street and had my 4 points installed but just pushed aside till I needed them.
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Old 11-19-2009, 11:17 AM   #10
CooperS431
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Very good call! Not only can they be dangerous depending on what harness you get, but they also get quite uncomfortable and you can't really turn around to look when your backing up with them on. They do make a HUGE difference for autocross though!
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Old 11-19-2009, 11:19 AM   #11
kpluiten
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Quote:
Originally Posted by u2_m4r1n3 View Post
I kept my stock seat belts on for the street and had my 4 points installed but just pushed aside till I needed them.
This is what I would consider doing.
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