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Old 11-23-2009, 02:37 PM   #1
lowrider89
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Default 2.0l - Vf39- 15 Psi - 279 Whp

so i am really impressed.... at only 15 PSI we acheived 279 WHP... we turned the boost up to 17 and my tuner said he didnt feel "safe" with it.

Car : 04 wrx
Turbo : VF-39
Injectors : 650cc
Intercooler : STI TMIC
Exhaust : Fully catless 3" Blitz
Intake : AEM
Fuel Pump : Walbro 255
Spark plugs : 1 step colder

Location : The Boost Creep LTD, Longmont CO
Temp : roughly 60 degrees
Elevation : 4900 feet
Dyno : Dyno dynamics

boost : 15 PSI
Max hp : 279.1



dyno sheet



15 PSI sheet

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Last edited by lowrider89; 11-23-2009 at 03:03 PM.
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Old 11-23-2009, 04:00 PM   #2
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Looking at the graph, you could prob stand for a bit more aggressive timing at boost onset...slow spool and no real tq spike.

So why only 15psi? Good numbers for 15psi sure, but why only run 15?
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Old 11-23-2009, 04:02 PM   #3
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15psi @ almost a mile altitude? doesn't seem like much boost...
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Old 11-23-2009, 04:08 PM   #4
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hmmm yeah my question too...sounds like really advanced timing.

i make about 15 wheel more but a whole 6 psi more.
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Old 11-23-2009, 04:57 PM   #5
lowrider89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WREX88 View Post
hmmm yeah my question too...sounds like really advanced timing.

i make about 15 wheel more but a whole 6 psi more.
you are at 21 PSI ..... i want that

we tried rasing my boost on (4) different runs... the tuner did not like the way it ran and tuned me at 15 PSI... i was really hoping for ATLEAST 17 psi,oh well 279 WHP is much more fun that my old 230 WHP

- also we both dynotuned my car and road tuned my car... i am not happy with the 15 PSI, but i am happy with 279 WHP... so i guess in the end i am happy...

Last edited by lowrider89; 11-23-2009 at 05:06 PM.
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Old 11-23-2009, 06:59 PM   #6
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im running 21psi on my vf39 on pump gas. Properly tuned on more boost, you wouldnt make thattt much more hp but you would pick a ton of wtq. Barely touching 245wtq is weak sauce man. Find a different tuner, or if your car has issues fix them. Peak tq at 4300 is also crap. Unless that is just a funkylicous dyno, you are leaving ALOT of power band on the table.
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Old 11-23-2009, 09:09 PM   #7
lowrider89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Swine View Post
im running 21psi on my vf39 on pump gas. Properly tuned on more boost, you wouldnt make thattt much more hp but you would pick a ton of wtq. Barely touching 245wtq is weak sauce man. Find a different tuner, or if your car has issues fix them. Peak tq at 4300 is also crap. Unless that is just a funkylicous dyno, you are leaving ALOT of power band on the table.
Peak torque looks to be 5200

car does not have any issues.... put a new OEM motor in it 10,000 miles ago...and the parts i bought were all quality and good.... and i know 245 WTQ is really low but another customer with a VF-39 last week only put down 255ish WTQ with a 2.5L on that dyno ....


- atleast my 5 speed can handle it

Last edited by lowrider89; 11-23-2009 at 09:20 PM.
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Old 11-23-2009, 09:13 PM   #8
STi Mikey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lowrider89 View Post
car does not have any issues.... put a new motor in it 10,000 miles ago...and the parts i bought were all quality and good.... and i know 245 WTQ is really low but another customer with a VF-39 last week only put down 255ish WTQ with a 2.5L on that dyno ....

- and i am happy with the 279 WHP, but agree, I wish my TQ was at alteast 255-260 WTQ

I wouldnt be discouraged, thats a nice graph you have there man.
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Old 11-24-2009, 08:29 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lowrider89 View Post
atleast my 5 speed can handle it
make sure your motor can handle it! just put good gas (or a bit of special sauce) in it, wouldn't want to catch a bad tank with all that timing advance.

does your tuner have a baseline graph and mod list for that 2.5 you mentioned?
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Old 11-24-2009, 09:53 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by midnite_wrex View Post
make sure your motor can handle it! just put good gas (or a bit of special sauce) in it, wouldn't want to catch a bad tank with all that timing advance.

does your tuner have a baseline graph and mod list for that 2.5 you mentioned?
- How can you tell what my timing is from those two graphs? I was watching my timing on his laptop while we did road pulls... my timing was not very advanced
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Old 11-24-2009, 11:03 AM   #11
Swine
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What was your timing?
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Old 11-24-2009, 11:17 AM   #12
LatentWagen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lowrider89 View Post
- How can you tell what my timing is from those two graphs? I was watching my timing on his laptop while we did road pulls... my timing was not very advanced
i assumed it was timing because of your hp graph... your tuner might also be leaning out the a/f ratio, or using a high correction factor on the dyno. 15psi - especially at altitude, where the air pressure is lower - is barely more than stock. 275whp out of a vf series turbo is about right, but for 18-20psi. IMO, to reach that power level without pushing boost, you'd need to run lots of timing or a really lean a/f ratio - both of which are scarier to me than bumping it up a few psi.

a timing and a/f map would clear things up in a big way.
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Old 11-24-2009, 11:22 AM   #13
lowrider89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by midnite_wrex View Post
i assumed it was timing because of your hp graph... your tuner might also be leaning out the a/f ratio, or using a high correction factor on the dyno. 15psi - especially at altitude, where the air pressure is lower - is barely more than stock. 275whp out of a vf series turbo is about right, but for 18-20psi. IMO, to reach that power level without pushing boost, you'd need to run lots of timing or a really lean a/f ratio - both of which are scarier to me than bumping it up a few psi.

a timing and a/f map would clear things up in a big way.
let me e-mail the tuner and see if he can send me the timing map... and when we tried 18 PSI... my horsepower actually went down...
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Old 11-24-2009, 11:24 AM   #14
lowrider89
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Originally Posted by Swine View Post
What was your timing?
i will be honest when i say, i know hardly anything about tuning... but when we were road testing it... he was looking at my timing map and said something about "2.75"

- i am e-mailing him to see if i can get more of my graphs
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Old 11-24-2009, 11:42 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lowrider89 View Post
let me e-mail the tuner and see if he can send me the timing map... and when we tried 18 PSI... my horsepower actually went down...
every car is different, and i'm sure your tuner had his reasons for whatever methods he used to get your setup running optimally. all else equal, just cranking up the boost 3psi won't tell you much if you don't compensate by adding enough fuel. the ecu may react by pulling timing, which you'd definitely see on your HP graph. i'd expect to see a tuner work in small increments, applying changes to each variable based on how the car responds.

just my 2c... which is worth at least 2 cents less than face value
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Old 11-24-2009, 12:14 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lowrider89 View Post
let me e-mail the tuner and see if he can send me the timing map... and when we tried 18 PSI... my horsepower actually went down...
Thats probably because your engine load increased and you went to a higher load column and were running lower timing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lowrider89 View Post
i will be honest when i say, i know hardly anything about tuning... but when we were road testing it... he was looking at my timing map and said something about "2.75"
2.75 was probably the peak load.....he was probably seeing how to scale the load columns for your timing and afr maps.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lowrider89 View Post
we tried rasing my boost on (4) different runs... the tuner did not like the way it ran and tuned me at 15 PSI... i was really hoping for ATLEAST 17 psi,oh well 279 WHP is much more fun that my old 230 WHP
He was probably referring to boost spikes. If tuners arent familiar with subarus boost control loop then it can frustrate them very easily.

As for the 15 psi........everyone needs to realize that is probably around 19-20psi at sea level.

The lower atmospheric pressure is a double whammy on the turbo.....it needs to run ~2-4 psi higher MAP to = its sea level equivalent and the turbo is also having to work at a higher pressure ratio and lower efficiency island on the compressor map.

15 psi at 5000 ft /=/ 15 psi at sea level
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Old 11-24-2009, 02:10 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phatron View Post
As for the 15 psi........everyone needs to realize that is probably around 19-20psi at sea level.

The lower atmospheric pressure is a double whammy on the turbo.....it needs to run ~2-4 psi higher MAP to = its sea level equivalent and the turbo is also having to work at a higher pressure ratio and lower efficiency island on the compressor map.

15 psi at 5000 ft /=/ 15 psi at sea level
oops, i forgot about absolute pressure vs the boost readout you'd get from a gauge or ECU. i was thinking his 15psi was really more like 13, instead of the other way around. air pressure at 5000ft altitude is 2.4 psi lower than sea level. so his 15 psi is about 17 and a half at sea level.
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Old 11-24-2009, 02:17 PM   #18
lowrider89
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Originally Posted by Phatron View Post
He was probably referring to boost spikes. If tuners arent familiar with subarus boost control loop then it can frustrate them very easily.

As for the 15 psi........everyone needs to realize that is probably around 19-20psi at sea level.

15 psi at 5000 ft /=/ 15 psi at sea level
ya i think most people forgot about that... my k04 jetta ran 18 PSI here and 21 PSI in California
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Old 11-24-2009, 02:31 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by midnite_wrex View Post
air pressure at 5000ft altitude is 2.4 psi lower than sea level. so his 15 psi is about 17 and a half at sea level.
Its more than that......im at 2700 feet and my logged boost target is offset 2 psi from the map values....and im exactly 1 psi lower.

Heres the equations for an 06 STi

Atmoshperic Boost Compensation -> calculated as follows:
multiplier = (logged atmospheric pressure * .05208) + 0.25
multiplier is limited to between 0 and 1.
target boost absolute = target boost map value + 14.7
target boost psi relative sea level with atmospheric comp = (target boost absolute * multiplier) - 14.7

Multiplier = (12.3*0.05208)+0.25 = 0.8905
Target Boost ABS = 19psi + 14.7 = 33.7 <---- i figured out the 19 in excel. basically what boost target is needed in the map to achieve a final boost target of 15 psi

Target Boost PSI relative sea level = (19 * 0.8905) - 14.7 = 15.3 psi

Basically however much your ATM Pressure is lower than 14.7 your final boost target will be 2x that lower.

IE 13.7 atm pressure will yield boost targets that are 2 psi lower than map vales

12.7 ----> 4 psi
11.7 ----> 6 psi

Its not simply "you're 1 psi low so you're reduced 1 psi".......its double to offset the compressors lower efficiency.

Last edited by Phatron; 04-06-2010 at 02:03 PM.
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