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Old 11-23-2009, 05:45 PM   #1
Scooby South
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Default SCCA Dec Fastrack

DEC Fastrack PDF

RECOMMENDED TO THE BOD
- Items 2 and 3 in last month’s list of SEB recommendations to the BOD are being withdrawn, per the PAC and SEB. This subject will be addressed in a future change proposal

- Per the SAC, the recommended proposal to move the BMW 335i from FS to DS (SEB minutes Item 14) is corrected to read “BMW 335i (’07-‘10), 335i xDrive (’07-’10), and 335d (’09-’10)”. (ref. 09-416, 09-497). In addition, this was intended as a 2011 proposal and should not be implemented for 2010.
- Per the SAC, Item 13 in the list of SEB recommendations to the BOD should have reflected the following: The Boxster (‘97-‘04) (986 chassis) (non-S) should be shown as moved from AS to CS. The Boxster S (‘00-‘04) (986 chassis) will stay in the new BS.
- Per the SPAC, Item 29 in last month’s list of SEB recommendations to the BOD should have been of the following form:
- Change the first sentence of 15.9 to read: “Except for those with electric and hybrid powertrains, vehicles may only exceed the allowances of 13.9 as specified herein.”
- Change the first sentence of 15.10 to read: “Except for those with electric and hybrid powertrains, vehicles may only exceed the allowances of 13.10 as specified herein.”
- Per the SPAC, Item 32 in the list of SEB recommendations to the BOD is corrected to read as follows:
- Move the Subaru WRX non-STi (’08-’10) from ESP to BSP onto the same line as the ’08-’10 WRX STi and the ’09 Impreza GT, new listing to read: “WRX (’08-’10), WRX STi (’08-’10) & Impreza GT (’09-‘10)”. Also clarify the WRX listing in ESP to read “WRX (’00-’07)

Here we go again....

other interesting things..:

TECH BULLETINS
1. Stock: Per the SAC the following new listings, effective immediately upon publication, are added (ref. 09-551):
Kia Forte & Koup 2.0L HS
Kia Forte & Koup 2.4L GS
Kia Optima HS
2. Stock: The BMW Z4 sDrive 35i is covered by the current listing for the Z4 non-M, which is in the 2009 AS moves to BS for 2010.
3. Street Touring: The previously-published clarification provided by the STAC (October Fastrack, TB #4) is corrected to read as follows: “The ’06-‘10 BMW E90 M3 is added to the STX exclusion list in Appendix A, but is eligible for STU.” (ref. 09-424)
4. Street Touring: Add to the end of the first paragraph of 14.10.J: “All components between the engine and the mounting structure are considered to be part of the motor mount assembly and therefore comprise the motor mount.” (ref. 09-588)
5. Street Touring: The Stock class option package conversion rule (13.0, third paragraph) applies in the Street Touring classes. (ref. 09-634)
6. Street Touring: The following new listing, effective immediately upon publication, is added to the new STR class list of eligible models: “Pontiac Fiero (all)”
7. Prepared: Per the PAC the following new listings, effective immediately upon publication, are added:
Toyota Yaris EP Nissan/Datsun 720 2WD (’80-’86) EP
8. Prepared: Per the PAC, the following is added to the Prepared Class X section in Appendix A, as a new subsection 7.a (re-lettering the following subsections accordingly): “a. Engines must be derived from production automobiles. Motorcycle, snowmobile, marine, or other engines of non-automotive design are not permitted.”
9. Modified: In Appendix A, under Modified Class F subsection E.1 in the second paragraph, the sixth sentence should read as follows: “Any single carburetor (regardless of the number of venturis) is permitted.” (ref. 09-338)
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Old 11-23-2009, 06:39 PM   #2
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From what I understand, since they have the WRX and STi listed on the same line somewhere you can upgrade the WRX with all of the STi parts.

Basically you can build a BSP STi with an ESP WRX body and call it ESP.

...so they are scared that it will be too fast for the mustangs and camaros.
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Old 11-23-2009, 06:56 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by BSTON View Post
From what I understand, since they have the WRX and STi listed on the same line somewhere you can upgrade the WRX with all of the STi parts.

Basically you can build a BSP STi with a formerly ESP '08+ WRX body and call it ESP.

...so they are scared that it will be too fast for the mustangs and camaros.
Fixed that for you. You can only "build" a car using UD/BD from models/years on the same line. So you can't use an '05 WRX body in your BSP STi build.
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Old 11-24-2009, 07:11 AM   #4
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Another interesting thing: SEB Rule Change Item 63 (effective 1/1/2010).
The 2002 is getting faster in FSP with the formerly DSP 2002tii put on the same line as the other 2002. That means they get a 0.5:1 boost in motor compression. Last month, they made the Civics faster and this month they've made the 2002 faster. Looking at the FSP results for the last few years, I don't imagine how they suggest those two cars needed help in the class. Well, the variety was good while it lasted...
-N
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Old 11-24-2009, 08:44 AM   #5
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2 more examples of the "best of breed" movement that was shot down when put out for member comment.

Hey Neil......the 03 OBS got an EJ25....I think they all got them sometime around there and later. Thoughts on the DSP listing of "Impreza, 2.5" (no years listed)? They mean RS only, or any Impreza with a 2.5 (like the 2.5i, 2.5ts)? Should the OBS go to FSP like yours? It's not otherwise classified if the DSP listing refers to the RS model. I figure about 1 week to make my car DSP legal if the listing is for any Impreza carrying a 2.5 liter motor......

Jay Storm
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Old 11-24-2009, 09:25 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by Storm View Post
2 more examples of the "best of breed" movement that was shot down when put out for member comment.

Hey Neil......the 03 OBS got an EJ25....I think they all got them sometime around there and later. Thoughts on the DSP listing of "Impreza, 2.5" (no years listed)? They mean RS only, or any Impreza with a 2.5 (like the 2.5i, 2.5ts)? Should the OBS go to FSP like yours? It's not otherwise classified if the DSP listing refers to the RS model. I figure about 1 week to make my car DSP legal if the listing is for any Impreza carrying a 2.5 liter motor......

Jay Storm
I've wondered about that. I think it really should just stay the way it is and be interpreted as engine size.
DSP lists "Impreza 2.5" (which is usually interpreted as the 2.5RS)
FSP lists "Impreza NOC" (which should basically be all the 1.8 and 2.2 cars)

I consider the '98-'01 2.5RS to be the model intended for DSP. They get heavier in the '02-'07 range and they have different stock suspensions, but ultimately, they are all 2.5RS Imprezas with different names (TS, RS, 2.5i, etc). Given SP's suspension allowances, they'd all be on par with any '02-'07 2.5RS in DSP I think.

But your car couldn't be DSP-legal. It's not an RS. It doesn't have the RS transmission, diff ratios, sunroof, power windows/locks, etc that an RS would have to have. Unless all normally aspirated Imprezas were on the same line, you'd have to start with an RS to make a DSP Impreza. And unless that happens, the "Impreza NOC" is always going to be all normally-aspirated '93-'01 non-RS Imprezas like mine and yours.

I admit it seems a little strange to think a newer OBS would be a DSP car, but their engine really does start where mine is for power, so it makes sense. What's funnier is that a modern OBS is also a GS car since they've all got the 2.5 now. I find it hard to believe that a modern NA Impreza stuck with stock suspension can compete even in HS, much less GS.
-N
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Old 11-24-2009, 10:42 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by Storm View Post
2 more examples of the "best of breed" movement that was shot down when put out for member comment.

Hey Neil......the 03 OBS got an EJ25....I think they all got them sometime around there and later. Thoughts on the DSP listing of "Impreza, 2.5" (no years listed)? They mean RS only, or any Impreza with a 2.5 (like the 2.5i, 2.5ts)? Should the OBS go to FSP like yours? It's not otherwise classified if the DSP listing refers to the RS model. I figure about 1 week to make my car DSP legal if the listing is for any Impreza carrying a 2.5 liter motor......

Jay Storm
EXACTLY my thoughts Jay...
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Old 11-24-2009, 10:44 AM   #8
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Somebody needs to 'build' a 90-94 Legacy turbo for FSP..most all Suspension pieces bolt right up...with a fresh closed deck 2.2, turbo, LSD's and 2500lbs...I think it could compete....wish I could find one in 'Decent' shape
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Old 11-24-2009, 11:09 AM   #9
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Somebody needs to 'build' a 90-94 Legacy turbo for FSP..most all Suspension pieces bolt right up...with a fresh closed deck 2.2, turbo, LSD's and 2500lbs...I think it could compete....wish I could find one in 'Decent' shape
I've often thought that would be a killer FSP car, but it's so hard to find them. I don't think you'd get them down to that weight though. Everything I've heard is that they'll be about 100-150lbs heavier than an equivalently prepared Impreza. I think it'd still be quite competitive in that form, mind you, but I think 2500lbs may be a little optimistic.
-N
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Old 11-24-2009, 11:29 AM   #10
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I've often thought that would be a killer FSP car, but it's so hard to find them. I don't think you'd get them down to that weight though. Everything I've heard is that they'll be about 100-150lbs heavier than an equivalently prepared Impreza. I think it'd still be quite competitive in that form, mind you, but I think 2500lbs may be a little optimistic.
-N
See...no-ones tried...with everything Fresh...It could be close to 200 WHP...Standalone, Turbo looses efficiency at about 16psi for the VF10-11..fully built to the hilt Tranny, diffs and 275's on 15's would be great...

How would you think it would compete with the wabbit, and Civic's...It might come off a tad heavy...but i don't think anything could touch the WHP and LSD capabilities..

Bill
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Old 11-24-2009, 12:15 PM   #11
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Like I said, I think it could be the killer FSP car. There are just so few in good enough shape for someone to try. All the ones I find up here occasionally are rusted to hell.
-N
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Old 11-24-2009, 12:56 PM   #12
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I gave it some serious thought, but like Neil mentioned....finding a good example to start with is getting harder and harder.

There's a fairly decent one FS near me right now....$700. It's got me thinking....really thinking. Yes, with a fresh motor and standalone running the show, along with proper suspension, they would be (imho) a class killer. They didn't weigh much more than an impreza back then.....and I've read that the balance is closer to 50/50.

Jay
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Old 11-24-2009, 04:42 PM   #13
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Quote:
Basically you can build a BSP STi with an ESP WRX body and call it ESP
..or..
Quote:
Basically you can build a BSP STi with a formerly ESP '08+ WRX body and call it ESP.
I'm confused. I don't think there is any way to use UD/BD to get an ESP car that uses STi parts, no matter what year WRX it is.
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Old 11-24-2009, 06:05 PM   #14
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I'm confused. I don't think there is any way to use UD/BD to get an ESP car that uses STi parts, no matter what year WRX it is.
The way I understand it, since the '08+ WRX is listed on the same line somewhere as the STi, you could take the STi diffs and any other fun stuff and put it on your WRX.

Because of that threat, they took the WRX and moved it to BSP.


...if you have time to read 14 pages...
http://sccaforums.com/forums/thread/340803.aspx
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Old 11-24-2009, 06:45 PM   #15
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The way I understand it, since the '08+ WRX is listed on the same line somewhere as the STi, you could take the STi diffs and any other fun stuff and put it on your WRX.

Because of that threat, they took the WRX and moved it to BSP.


...if you have time to read 14 pages...
http://sccaforums.com/forums/thread/340803.aspx
That was never a threat before. You cannot and could never use STi parts on your WRX in ESP, except if they were within the rules of SP. Essentially, the WRX has been a decent fit for ESP and the STi for BSP, albeit in some arguments, neither is welcome in either class. Ignoring that, the new WRX is better than the older one. It has a better suspension in '08 and a better engine in '09, so they've upgraded them to be joined with the STis from now on in BSP.
-N
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Old 11-24-2009, 08:28 PM   #16
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That was never a threat before. You cannot and could never use STi parts on your WRX in ESP, except if they were within the rules of SP. Essentially, the WRX has been a decent fit for ESP and the STi for BSP, albeit in some arguments, neither is welcome in either class.
Tell me -- the Camaro driver -- about it. I haven't autocrossed since Nationals, and a lot of it is simply because all the idiot bickering of the pony car drivers made me want to stab my eyes out rather than drive against them again. The only event I've attended since Nationals was only so that my codriver (who didn't make the big show because of his bicycling accident) could experience the diffs.

Trash talking is one thing. Mean-spirited and spiteful remarks are another.
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Old 11-24-2009, 10:32 PM   #17
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Um so all 08+ WRX and STI to BSP

and my 04STi still stays in BSP? huh?

and all 00-07 WRX to stay in ESP? I have been out of the loop, when did the WRX get the 2.5 again?
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Old 11-25-2009, 12:04 AM   #18
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I have been out of the loop, when did the WRX get the 2.5 again?
Justin,

The '06-'07 WRXs got the 2.5L engines w/ the same TD04 as the earlier 2.0L models.
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Old 11-25-2009, 07:29 AM   #19
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Tell me -- the Camaro driver -- about it. I haven't autocrossed since Nationals, and a lot of it is simply because all the idiot bickering of the pony car drivers made me want to stab my eyes out rather than drive against them again. The only event I've attended since Nationals was only so that my codriver (who didn't make the big show because of his bicycling accident) could experience the diffs.

Trash talking is one thing. Mean-spirited and spiteful remarks are another.
What a shame...... I feel bad for you Karen, we're all out there trying to have fun.

Jay
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Old 11-25-2009, 10:45 AM   #20
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I could see seperating 2.0 and 2.5 but that's not the case then, I guess I feel it's kind of stupid that a lighter WRX can be in ESP with maybe a 30 hp loss over a STi, but a heavier STi is in BSP? Small differences in horsepower don't typically determine a winner, it's more the driver than anything.

Last edited by crystalhelix; 11-25-2009 at 10:51 AM.
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Old 11-25-2009, 11:13 AM   #21
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I could see seperating 2.0 and 2.5 but that's not the case then, I guess I feel it's kind of stupid that a lighter WRX can be in ESP with maybe a 30 hp loss over a STi, but a heavier STi is in BSP? Small differences in horsepower don't typically determine a winner, it's more the driver than anything.
Justin,

I've seen McCance's dyno sheet (has an '07 2.5L engine installed in his '02 WRX), and he's making around about 220whp. With race gas (or E85) I feel 240whp is a reasonable estimate of what he *should* be able to achieve. But there's no way he could get to be within 30hp of an STi with the stock TD04 (more like a 100hp less).

The '09 WRXs have a much larger turbo and can make much more power in SP trim, which is why the current gen WRX ('08+) is being moved to BSP.
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Old 11-25-2009, 11:56 AM   #22
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Impreza with a 2.5 (like the 2.5i, 2.5ts)
Exactly. It had to start its life with a 2.5L engine. You can take the 2.5L engine/tranny from a new i/ts and put it in an RS.

--kC
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Old 11-25-2009, 03:36 PM   #23
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Justin,

I've seen McCance's dyno sheet (has an '07 2.5L engine installed in his '02 WRX), and he's making around about 220whp. With race gas (or E85) I feel 240whp is a reasonable estimate of what he *should* be able to achieve. But there's no way he could get to be within 30hp of an STi with the stock TD04 (more like a 100hp less).

The '09 WRXs have a much larger turbo and can make much more power in SP trim, which is why the current gen WRX ('08+) is being moved to BSP.
I was under impression the ESP cars were making more power, my mistake. So essentially 110 more horsepower and worse 2nd gear puts you in BSP.

I am not really complaining but I am not looking forward to how random PAX results look next year, lol.
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Old 11-26-2009, 12:34 PM   #24
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I was under impression the ESP cars were making more power, my mistake. So essentially 110 more horsepower and worse 2nd gear puts you in BSP.
I wish I made more power, but my dyno sheet looks pretty much the same as Greg's. I do like my gearing, but I don't know about the power and the transmission being the only differences between my car and yours, Justin.
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Old 11-26-2009, 01:27 PM   #25
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My car has Dino.
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