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Old 12-02-2009, 10:04 PM   #1
CKxx
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Your BOV sounds lame
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Default Has ANYONE done an HTA comparison on a Suby yet?

I've got a 35r en route. I was considering getting the HTA compressor wheel installed while my car is down, but I can barely find information on the value of this conversion. When searching, all I can find is a small discussion of an HTA82 on a BMW forum (no hard figures) and the standard evo comparison graph that keeps getting passed around (http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y71...5RCastmani.jpg).

What I am wondering is if anyone has tested a turbo, and then switched to the HTA version with minimal other changes? More lag? Less? Power?

For those with experience with these turbos, although you may not have a direct comparison, do you have any thoughts on the value of getting FP to swap the wheels?

My car has a 2.1L that can rev and flow to 8k. It will primarily be using pump gas. For the foreseeable future, it will be single scroll, UEL manifold.
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Old 12-02-2009, 10:22 PM   #2
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I see people making more power at less boost on evom with the HTA 35r vs the Garett non modded 35r. As you are on pump gas, from what I saw would be perfect for you... You are revving to 8k though, and let it be known the gains that I've seen haven't been huge. Take everything with a grain of salt though, as I have no facts.
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Old 12-02-2009, 11:08 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soon2bblackongold View Post
I see people making more power at less boost on evom with the HTA 35r vs the Garett non modded 35r. As you are on pump gas, from what I saw would be perfect for you... You are revving to 8k though, and let it be known the gains that I've seen haven't been huge. Take everything with a grain of salt though, as I have no facts.
I seen the same, there is test on EVOs and there are gains.

But on subies there are some tuner that have lost power by switching to the HTA wheel , there is some posts somewhere
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Old 12-02-2009, 11:28 PM   #4
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this isnt a gt35 but here is my og vs hta green within the last week. hta green is on a 2.2L, internal wastegate, and ebay headers.

og green is ext gate and perrin el headers.

You can see the HTA wheel flows more and holds more boost up top. Im probably gonna end up putting the HTA on my STi pretty soon so i will be able to have a better comparison

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Old 12-03-2009, 11:58 AM   #5
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Do both have the same inlet size? If they do, that is interesting even with the displacement difference.

Let us know when you test both.
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Old 12-03-2009, 02:41 PM   #6
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The OG Green is 3", APS turbo inlet, APS 70mm CAI, perrin EL's, UR Up w/ Tial 38mm, Injen 3" tbe, spearco tmic, hfs5 meth.

The HTA Green is 2.4", APS turbo inlet with a k&n cone filter right on the end of the turbo inlet, ebay 1 piece headers, ebay tbe, css fmic, coolingmist meth.
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Old 12-03-2009, 06:09 PM   #7
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10lbs of boost pressure difference at 4K. thats alot of "downlow" that the hta is giving up.
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Old 12-03-2009, 06:15 PM   #8
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well, the HTA is on a 2.2L......not gonna have any down low. The purpose of showing this was that the HTA Green holds more boost than the OG Green.

If the HTA was on my STi the spool up portion would probably overlay
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Old 12-03-2009, 06:15 PM   #9
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^^^thats not an equal comparison down low---1. sti has .3L more displacement 2. sti has a little bit more base compression(8.2 vs. 8.0) and lastly the sti has avcs to help spool-up.I think the comparison was to show power between the non-hta and the hta.
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Old 12-03-2009, 06:19 PM   #10
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The HTA wheels flow ~10% more than the regular wheels......so the HTA GT35 should do a good 30-60whp over the regular gt35 with little change in spool up / transient conditions.

This Machined (billet) vs Cast article by Garrett on their own site is interesting. "Higher Flowrates, Horsepower or Efficiency? No. "

http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbob..._Machined.html


Compared to ATP's advertising of Garretts new Billet GTX-R wheels "improved efficiency"

http://www.atpturbo.com/


Made me laugh. I know its the aerodynamics and number of blades thats making them better and not the Billet part....but the way its worded is kinda funny.

Last edited by Phatron; 12-03-2009 at 06:29 PM.
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Old 12-03-2009, 08:21 PM   #11
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From the Garrett article:
"No noticeable gains in performance can be seen when testing a machined wheel vs. a cast wheel of the same design."

That means little since both companies (FP, ATP) selling the billet "upgrade" wheels use a totally different design.

I had never even heard of ATP selling something similar. What is the scoop on thier upgrade? Whole new turbo only, or do they swap them on existing units? Cost? Their website seems to have no info beyond that single useless graphic.
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Old 12-03-2009, 08:24 PM   #12
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garretts site has no info either.....at least i couldnt find any
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Old 12-03-2009, 08:26 PM   #13
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From 1.5yrs ago
Direct swap, 2 pulls between the 2 runs just to set the boost back to were it needed to be.. well as close as it could get. The HTA came in a tad slower, but hit a lot harder.
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...&highlight=HTA



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Old 12-03-2009, 08:28 PM   #14
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Just to throw it out there...If someone in the tri-state area wants to tune my car...twice...then I'll provide the turbos! GT3582R vs. HTA3582R

EDIT: Nice info JR! Thanks!

Also, I wanted to have you tune my car, but I thought you didn't tune UTECs?

Last edited by CKxx; 12-03-2009 at 08:36 PM.
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Old 12-03-2009, 09:26 PM   #15
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y would u go through that trouble? there isnt gonna be a significant difference to warrant it.

the HTA and GTX wheels are the new aero.....the older wheels wont even be sold soon.

fp isnt gonna have the full line of 16g, 18g, 20g, green, red, gt30, gt35 plus all the same turbos with HTA wheels.....it just be 16g HTA, 18g HTA, etc etc.

go with the HTA and call it a day.....
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Old 12-03-2009, 10:43 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CKxx View Post
Just to throw it out there...If someone in the tri-state area wants to tune my car...twice...then I'll provide the turbos! GT3582R vs. HTA3582R

EDIT: Nice info JR! Thanks!

Also, I wanted to have you tune my car, but I thought you didn't tune UTECs?
Why???

Its the fact that the GT35R is old technology, there are no draw backs to HTA billet turbo's. The HTA82 will outspool a 35r and a hta86 will make more power while sacrificing some spool. Unless your really on a budget I don't know why anyone would still use that relic of a 35r.
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Old 12-03-2009, 10:59 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phatron View Post
y would u go through that trouble? there isnt gonna be a significant difference to warrant it.

the HTA and GTX wheels are the new aero.....the older wheels wont even be sold soon.

fp isnt gonna have the full line of 16g, 18g, 20g, green, red, gt30, gt35 plus all the same turbos with HTA wheels.....it just be 16g HTA, 18g HTA, etc etc.

go with the HTA and call it a day.....
Quote:
Originally Posted by project_skyline View Post
Why???

Its the fact that the GT35R is old technology, there are no draw backs to HTA billet turbo's. The HTA82 will outspool a 35r and a hta86 will make more power while sacrificing some spool. Unless your really on a budget I don't know why anyone would still use that relic of a 35r.
OK! OK! I will probably go ahead and do it. I guess I expected a little more, spool wise, for the $600 they charge. Unfortunately, I doubt my car with be anywhere even near those levels of power (2.12L vs. 2.5L) or boost (is that 30psi on pump gas?).
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Old 12-04-2009, 04:09 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CKxx View Post
Also, I wanted to have you tune my car, but I thought you didn't tune UTECs?
JR invented the utec..lol

Quote:
Originally Posted by CKxx View Post
OK! OK! I will probably go ahead and do it. I guess I expected a little more, spool wise, for the $600 they charge. Unfortunately, I doubt my car with be anywhere even near those levels of power (2.12L vs. 2.5L) or boost (is that 30psi on pump gas?).
Not sure about the gas...but looks more like 36psi..

I believe there is a bigger difference between the turbos on pump gas
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Old 12-04-2009, 07:15 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BUILTSTI View Post
I believe there is a bigger difference between the turbos on pump gas
That could prove to be very important to my decision.
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Old 12-04-2009, 09:39 PM   #20
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I went from OG to HTA green. Ever so slight increase in lag, under 500rpm, but gobs of power up top at less boost. Iirc, I gained 20-25 on the spreadsheet with 19psi vs 22psi, although, the OG timing map was conservative. I had some logs/graphs, but microsoft ate them.
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Old 12-04-2009, 10:57 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Merp View Post
I went from OG to HTA green. Ever so slight increase in lag, under 500rpm, but gobs of power up top at less boost. Iirc, I gained 20-25 on the spreadsheet with 19psi vs 22psi, although, the OG timing map was conservative. I had some logs/graphs, but microsoft ate them.

can we really compare an OG green to an hta green??

I thought not, they are different turbos altogether

kind of like comparing 35r to hta3586

the truest comparison we need to sort out is 35r and hta3582
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Old 12-05-2009, 12:53 AM   #22
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can we really compare an OG green to an hta green??

I thought not, they are different turbos altogether

kind of like comparing 35r to hta3586

the truest comparison we need to sort out is 35r and hta3582
Somewhat. While they are different sizes, the fact that an extra 6-7lb turbo could almost match the spool of the OG speaks to the value of the HTA aero on an EJ, IMO.

Things should get pretty interesting once garrett gets the GTX in a medium frame. GTX v HTA v XT-R v BW

Last edited by Merp; 12-05-2009 at 01:42 AM.
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Old 12-05-2009, 01:56 AM   #23
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good point, everything I have seen/ heard was enough to pay up to get the HTA upgrade on my new 35R (HTA3582)
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Old 12-05-2009, 03:01 AM   #24
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Things should get pretty interesting once garrett gets the GTX in a medium frame. GTX v HTA v XT-R v BW
I've been meaning to call Blouch, but I'm always busy until late. Do you happen to know if they do "XT-R" conversions to existing turbos? I definitely not trying to buy a stock location turbo.

As for Garrett, since they just added that info article on their website about how "billet wheels do nothing," I don't see them adding that GTX option to any more turbos in the near future.

Also, what size is the GT3582r's exhaust housing in comparison to the "10cm housing" everyone is raving about on the stock location models?
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Old 12-05-2009, 03:15 AM   #25
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How are the og green and hta green different turbos all together? How is it any different than comparing the gt35 to an hta35?
They both have different compressor wheels just like the gt35's.
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