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Old 12-10-2009, 02:54 AM   #1
AVANTI R5
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Default Autocar: Porsche 911 Turbo Vs Audi R8 V10 Vs Nissan Gt-r

Autocar takes three mouthwatering vehicles for a thrash at Castle Combe circuit; the Porsche 911 Turbo, Nissan GT-R and Audiís R8 V10.




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Old 12-10-2009, 08:11 AM   #2
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wow, with that conclusion, you can really start to hear the death march for the standard gear box...
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Old 12-10-2009, 09:27 AM   #3
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I like the new 911 and the R8, but I think the often missed point is that the GTR is not only faster, but is half the price. It is a suprercar that is affordable. Even if the GTR was slightly slower, I still think it would be the winner based on the price to performance ratio.

It also seemed from the review that the GTR was easier to drive around the track than the slower 911. Styling is subjective, but lap times and MSRP is not and the GTR is the clear winner here especially for cars where their main purpose of existance is to go fast.
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Old 12-10-2009, 10:14 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO View Post
wow, with that conclusion, you can really start to hear the death march for the standard gear box...
Oh come on. Not once while lapping did he mention the box. In fact, he put the slower lap time down to the brakes (stating that without the brake problems, the R8 might have gone faster). And he mentioned that the GTR turned the best times from cornering speed, rather than anything having to do with the gearbox/straight line speed.

That was a FAR FAR cry from an anti-manual review. It only mentioned the lack of such a feature once...
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Old 12-10-2009, 10:34 AM   #5
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Styling is subjective, but lap times and MSRP is not and the GTR is the clear winner here especially for cars where their main purpose of existance is to go fast.
On the other hand, the GT-R doesn't really make a good track car, so I wouldn't pay too much attention to the lap times.
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Old 12-10-2009, 11:12 AM   #6
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Oh come on. Not once while lapping did he mention the box. In fact, he put the slower lap time down to the brakes (stating that without the brake problems, the R8 might have gone faster). And he mentioned that the GTR turned the best times from cornering speed, rather than anything having to do with the gearbox/straight line speed.

That was a FAR FAR cry from an anti-manual review. It only mentioned the lack of such a feature once...
did you hear his last quote REX? with better brakes and a flappy paddle gear box, it would be the best car in the test.

Or did I hear that wrong.
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Old 12-10-2009, 11:21 AM   #7
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"With better brakes and a proper floppy paddle gearbox" is exactly what he said. Certainly not the DEATH of the standard, but it seems to be headed in that general direction. I remember when the Brits hated the floppy paddle
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Old 12-10-2009, 11:23 AM   #8
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<--- Would take the Porsche... with a proper manual.
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Old 12-10-2009, 11:31 AM   #9
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Personally, I'd take the GT-R with a proper manual trans...
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Old 12-10-2009, 12:02 PM   #10
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did you hear his last quote REX? with better brakes and a flappy paddle gear box, it would be the best car in the test.

Or did I hear that wrong.
Yes, as I said, one comment at the end, that's it. Certainly it's a feature that needs/should be offered in the class, just look at it's competitors. But that was most certainly not the tone of the review. Certainly not warranting your comment.

It never said anything negative about the manual, or positive about the others gearboxes. Hardly a "death march"
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Old 12-10-2009, 12:07 PM   #11
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Okay, death march MAY have been a touch dramatic. But hey, it is my style.

But I will say it was only one comment, but it was a very meaningful comment that held lots of impact. I mean, "THIS IS SPARTA" was only a comment, but man, what an impact it made. HAHA
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Old 12-10-2009, 12:18 PM   #12
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For over 90% of your driving, you're never going to notice what separates these cars performance wise which is why I'd hands down choose the 911 based on it's heritage and style (really I'd want the 911 GT3, but for the sake of this thread...). Personally I think the GTR has no style or passion about it. And any yahoo can get in it and it will make them look like they know how to drive, which makes it not very fun either. In terms of price, the GTR may be listed at $80K, but go to the dealership and try to pay that. I bet they still command 6 figures.
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Old 12-10-2009, 12:25 PM   #13
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<--- Would take the Porsche... with a proper manual.
Same here. It actually made him giggle it was so scary.

Great video. Yeah, the GT-R is a performance bargain... But it's like buying a Corvette over a Ferrari because it's cheaper & faster. Kinda misses the point of buying a visceral supercar.
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Old 12-10-2009, 12:25 PM   #14
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In terms of price, the GTR may be listed at $80K, but go to the dealership and try to pay that. I bet they still command 6 figures.
Nope.
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Old 12-10-2009, 12:27 PM   #15
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you can say what you want about the GTR, but please do not say it is 'not very fun'. That is asinine. How can a wonderfully performing car not be fun to drive.

Granted I have not driven one, but I would imagine a car with that kind of performance level, would have to put a smile on my face.
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Old 12-10-2009, 03:31 PM   #16
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you can say what you want about the GTR, but please do not say it is 'not very fun'. That is asinine. How can a wonderfully performing car not be fun to drive.

Granted I have not driven one, but I would imagine a car with that kind of performance level, would have to put a smile on my face.
There's your problem right there, you've never driven one. I had the oppurtunity to drive a GTR once during the summer. The GTR is an amazing car for what it offers in performance for the price tag. BUT, IMO it's not the funnest car i've driven before. Yes the GTR can make the most n00b driver look like a hero, but if you asked me which car is more fun to drive, the GTR or the current Dodge Viper, i'll tell you right now the Viper.

It's like this. Driving a Dodge Viper is like having wild monkey sex with your favorite pornstar, whereas driving a GTR is like masturbating to internet pr0n of your favorite pornstar. Will both ways get you off, sure. But which way do you find more enjoyable?? I dunno bout u, but i perfer fukin to jerkin.

Last edited by DeeBoy; 12-10-2009 at 03:37 PM.
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Old 12-10-2009, 03:50 PM   #17
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It's like this. Driving a Dodge Viper is like having wild monkey sex with your favorite pornstar, whereas driving a GTR is like masturbating to internet pr0n of your favorite pornstar. Will both ways get you off, sure. But which way do you find more enjoyable?? I dunno bout u, but i perfer fukin to jerkin.
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Old 12-10-2009, 03:50 PM   #18
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There's your problem right there, you've never driven one. I had the oppurtunity to drive a GTR once during the summer. The GTR is an amazing car for what it offers in performance for the price tag. BUT, IMO it's not the funnest car i've driven before. Yes the GTR can make the most n00b driver look like a hero, but if you asked me which car is more fun to drive, the GTR or the current Dodge Viper, i'll tell you right now the Viper.

It's like this. Driving a Dodge Viper is like having wild monkey sex with your favorite pornstar, whereas driving a GTR is like masturbating to internet pr0n of your favorite pornstar. Will both ways get you off, sure. But which way do you find more enjoyable?? I dunno bout u, but i perfer fukin to jerkin.

Oddly graphic but makes a good point

I've never driven a GTR, but in the past I've driven the following: E30 M3, Porsche 944, Miata, Mini Cooper (not the BMW variety, the 1967 variety). I thought they were all a blast to drive because you CAN drive them at their limit and there's no electronics to bail you out when you get there. I think too many people think fast=fun, I think a good drivers car = fun.
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Old 12-10-2009, 03:56 PM   #19
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There's your problem right there, you've never driven one. I had the oppurtunity to drive a GTR once during the summer. The GTR is an amazing car for what it offers in performance for the price tag. BUT, IMO it's not the funnest car i've driven before. Yes the GTR can make the most n00b driver look like a hero, but if you asked me which car is more fun to drive, the GTR or the current Dodge Viper, i'll tell you right now the Viper.

It's like this. Driving a Dodge Viper is like having wild monkey sex with your favorite pornstar, whereas driving a GTR is like masturbating to internet pr0n of your favorite pornstar. Will both ways get you off, sure. But which way do you find more enjoyable?? I dunno bout u, but i perfer fukin to jerkin.
Wow, that is classic!

Quote:
Originally Posted by BeatLA View Post
Oddly graphic but makes a good point

I've never driven a GTR, but in the past I've driven the following: E30 M3, Porsche 944, Miata, Mini Cooper (not the BMW variety, the 1967 variety). I thought they were all a blast to drive because you CAN drive them at their limit and there's no electronics to bail you out when you get there. I think too many people think fast=fun, I think a good drivers car = fun.

Amen Brother!
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Old 12-10-2009, 04:05 PM   #20
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because life is all about lap times right?
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Old 12-10-2009, 04:14 PM   #21
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and being able to say "My car can run the 'ring in 7:xx.xx"
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Old 12-10-2009, 04:16 PM   #22
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because life is all about lap times right?
It certainly does, when you see manufacturers fight over it everyday.

Fun is a difficult word. The GTR is said to be like playing Playstation. Millions of people have played Gran Turismo and that is one fun game. So that means, a GTR is a fun car to drive.

Last edited by 4wdwrx; 12-10-2009 at 04:22 PM.
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Old 12-10-2009, 04:24 PM   #23
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because life is all about lap times right?
Quote:
Originally Posted by elirentz View Post
and being able to say "My car can run the 'ring in 7:xx.xx"
Let's face it....subconsciously it is..

Why else would you require such a powerful car to get around, when a light weight runabout can provide you with the same thrills for much less?

Do you really require 227HP in an Impreza? Nope... not really... The NA 2.5 car would serve everyone just as well if the goal was just transportation.
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Old 12-10-2009, 04:30 PM   #24
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Why else would you require such a powerful car to get around, when a light weight runabout can provide you with the same thrills for much less?
Exactly, the Porsche wouldn't be what it is if it wasn't for lap times. What do you think created their heritage.
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Old 12-10-2009, 04:51 PM   #25
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Let's face it....subconsciously it is..

Why else would you require such a powerful car to get around, when a light weight runabout can provide you with the same thrills for much less?

Do you really require 227HP in an Impreza? Nope... not really... The NA 2.5 car would serve everyone just as well if the goal was just transportation.
you completely missed the point. It's all about how a car FEELS to drive. An R8 is one of the most satisfying drivers cars on sale today. Nothing compares to the beautiful transmission, mid-engined chassis, and power that come with the R8.

My more powerful WRX is MORE FUN TO DRIVE than a 2.5i
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