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Old 12-16-2009, 07:14 AM   #1
WntrMute2
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Default Couple of headlight questions

2009 WRX with lousy low beams as you all know. I've ordered some H9s for the lows and the HIRs for the highs. Has anyone done the modification that Daniel Stern and Candlepower discuss involving bending some plate inside the low beam fixture? I'd like some input before groping around blindly inside the fixture. Also, how do the HIRs work with the daylight running lights? Any problems on the horizon? Thanks in advance

Dave
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Old 12-16-2009, 08:37 AM   #2
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HIRs are for your high beams, which aren't on with your DRLs, so no issues there.

I remember reading about doing that mod, and didn't do it for some reason, probably not necessary. IIRC, it's more for adding in HIDs or brighter headlights, where the potential for light scattering above the cutoff point is greater (i.e. blinding other drivers).
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Old 12-16-2009, 08:55 AM   #3
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Actually Daniel said the mod gets more light on the ground for better bad weather visibility, not just with higher watts, and has nothing to do with HIDs. I didn't do the mod when I put in my 65 watt bulbs just because it's so freaking hard to access the housings. Don't know about the '09, but with my '06 I had to take out the freaking battery to put in the low beam on the driver side.
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Old 12-16-2009, 09:12 AM   #4
island boyeee
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I may have to read that again then, cause i've been through 3 sets of lights and never been happy with visibility in bad weather.

Btw, I've never had to take my battery out to change the LH low beam. You just need somebody with smaller hands and patience.
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Old 12-16-2009, 07:15 PM   #5
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Actually, I think it is the High beams on reduced voltage that is the DRL. I was wondering if the reduced voltage may effect the HIRs.No one has done the bend the sheet metal thing within the headlight?
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Old 12-16-2009, 07:49 PM   #6
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I did it in my '06 after installing a PNP hid kit(soon to be retrofitted with HID projectors). I noticed that it did cut down on glare but honestly I don't think its needed in your case. I put H9s in my Mom's 09 2.5i and have since drove it in bad weather-fog,snow,etc. There doesn't seem to be any excess backscatter or glare with the H9s so just mod them,pop them in and enjoy!
P.S. don't forget to check the aim and adjust if needed.
Not the best pics-no before and after-and they are augmented by the Hella 500 fogs but the increased intensity is visible:


Last edited by aleutdude; 12-16-2009 at 08:00 PM.
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Old 01-28-2010, 03:22 AM   #7
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I have 8000k HID's in high and low beams and when i run just the lows its significantly better than stock lights but when DRL are on they strobe so i continuously run lights.
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Old 01-28-2010, 09:43 AM   #8
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^ oh lord.

1) HIDs in lows are are a dumb idea as you blind incoming drivers
2) HIDs in highs are a dumber idea as they need time to warm up whereas they are often flashed or frequently turned on/off
3) that "strobe" is due to the DRL which will (hopefully) fry your HIDs quite soon
4) 8000k is rice


Contrast that with the OP who - impressively so - READ about lighting, REFERENCED to the best source of info on the topic on the web and CHOSE the best thing to do short of a retrofit. Kudos to him...
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Old 01-28-2010, 03:31 PM   #9
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These are pictures of an 8,000K H11 kit in a 2009 Impreza.
I recommend using a 4,300 or 5,000 kit.





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Old 01-28-2010, 04:01 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CRAZYHAWK View Post
These are pictures of an 8,000K H11 kit in a 2009 Impreza.
I recommend using a 4,300 or 5,000 kit.
...







For the one hundredth time, please, stop posting those same terrible pics of your ghetto HID kit.

The pics are too dark to get any real information from them. You can't see the glare in the pics because they are too dark to even really make out the beam pattern.

Plus picture prove nothing about lighting unless there is a comparison pic taken with the exact same manual camera settings. Your camera automatically adjusts based on the amount of light that reaches the light sensor. Most also adjust color, and many other things. Plus if you know how to use a camera you can do all kinds of things to make any picture look better than the subject in reality. Either you are really good at using your camera or really bad.

If you really want to prove your point (well, attempt to prove it), put your stock bulbs back in, park your car about 50ft from a light colored wall in a dark area, set your camera on full manual, find some settings that make the pic clear and bright, take a pic, put the HID kit back in, and take another pic from the same place with the lights shining on the same surface and with the same exact camera settings.
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Old 01-28-2010, 06:19 PM   #11
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After installing these lights , I immediately noticed the better lighting.

I don't own a camera, so i won't be posting other pictures.
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Old 01-28-2010, 06:26 PM   #12
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you may want to look into doing the relay mod as well.
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Old 01-28-2010, 06:45 PM   #13
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They are somewhat dim because they are 8,000K. They are much brighter
than the OEM halogens.
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Old 01-29-2010, 11:02 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CRAZYHAWK View Post
After installing these lights , I immediately noticed the better lighting...

Quote:
Originally Posted by CRAZYHAWK View Post
They are somewhat dim because they are 8,000K. They are much brighter
than the OEM halogens.
Yes they are brighter than your stock bulbs, but better lighting? You may think that they provide better lighting but in reality they did not. At 8000k they put out about as much light as the OPs H9s and your light is a terrible color. The human eye doesn't like light this blue. The Color Rendering Index is probably half of what the H9 bulb's is, it is more stressful on your eyes, and you have an HID light source in a halogen optic. So you get lots of glare with a narrow, super concentrated, blotchy beam that constricts your pupils. Plus your setup has a much higher likely hood of damaging the stock headlight wiring and switches, and is much less reliable.

What the OP did is probably the absolute best combination of bulbs for his application. What you did is pretty close to the worst. The only thing that could make them worse would be going even higher in color temp.

You keep posting about how awsome your HID kit is. I really don't understand why. Do you just simply not understand that you don't know what you are talking about? You don't seem to know enough about lighting to make an opinion like that. Have you read anything about HIDs at all, other than the marketing BS from what ever site you bought those from? Please read these and stop defending your POS HID kit.

http://www.danielsternlighting.com/t...s/Hid/HID.html
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...ight=handsdown

Last edited by FourOnTheFloor65; 01-29-2010 at 11:07 PM.
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Old 01-30-2010, 09:18 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FourOnTheFloor65 View Post
Yes they are brighter than your stock bulbs, but better lighting? You may think that they provide better lighting but in reality they did not. At 8000k they put out about as much light as the OPs H9s and your light is a terrible color. The human eye doesn't like light this blue. The Color Rendering Index is probably half of what the H9 bulb's is, it is more stressful on your eyes, and you have an HID light source in a halogen optic. So you get lots of glare with a narrow, super concentrated, blotchy beam that constricts your pupils. Plus your setup has a much higher likely hood of damaging the stock headlight wiring and switches, and is much less reliable.

What the OP did is probably the absolute best combination of bulbs for his application. What you did is pretty close to the worst. The only thing that could make them worse would be going even higher in color temp.

You keep posting about how awsome your HID kit is. I really don't understand why. Do you just simply not understand that you don't know what you are talking about? You don't seem to know enough about lighting to make an opinion like that. Have you read anything about HIDs at all, other than the marketing BS from what ever site you bought those from? Please read these and stop defending your POS HID kit.

http://www.danielsternlighting.com/t...s/Hid/HID.html
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...ight=handsdown

You are entitled to your opinion.
This kit produces twice the light as the OEM halogens. I have followed friends and they have told me, my lights are not dazzling. I see much better with them.
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Old 01-30-2010, 12:12 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CRAZYHAWK View Post
You are entitled to your opinion.
This kit produces twice the light as the OEM halogens. I have followed friends and they have told me, my lights are not dazzling. I see much better with them.
Crazybirdie stated facts not opinion. Define "twice the light"? Optical power? Optical power integrated over the visible spectrum? Or convolved with your retina's spectral response which yields the perceived light?
You followed friends. Friends dont get dazzled
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Old 01-30-2010, 07:01 PM   #17
FourOnTheFloor65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CRAZYHAWK View Post
You are entitled to your opinion.
This kit produces twice the light as the OEM halogens. I have followed friends and they have told me, my lights are not dazzling. I see much better with them.
My opinion is based on reason and factual knowledge not on vague estimations, bad assumptions, and hearsay.

Your kit does not produce twice the light of the factory bulbs. At 8000k a 35watt hid kit produces between 2400 and 2500 lumen. THIS site's information page lists the output of their kits. Their premium kit seems to be the same kit that DDM sells only with a ballast that is not painted black. For their 8000k kit they list the output at 2400 lumen. A factory H11 bulb produces 1450 lumens. You can find that HERE. The OP used an H9 bulb it produces 2100 lumen. This number can be found on that last page as well. So I guess I was mistaken about this earlier. There is a 300 lumen drop in lumen when using the H9, but the output would be much more uniform with less glare than your setup since your optics are already designed for this bulb type.

As for glare. There is more glare than with your factory bulbs, a lot more. If you would have read the two articles I posted previously you would understand why this is a fact. I wish there was some way to force you to drop your misconceptions and learn something about lighting, maybe you fall victim to Arrogant New Jersey Syndrome (ANJS for short). You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.

As for you thinking you have better vision, this is one of the most infuriating things about HID kits. To the average person the light output seems better. This simply is not the case. Lets say for a minute that they are twice as bright which would be the case if you had bought a decent color temp bulb. Your stock halogen projectors use a light source that is about half that of a proper HID capsule. Since there is less light available for the optic to move around it is concentrated mostly in front of the car. Most HID optics spread the light out much wider because they have twice the light available to move around. Light concentration is measured as luminance, or candelas per square meter. With a stock halogen setup vs a stock HID setup the luminance directly in front of the car is very similar. The HID setup doesn't provide very much more luminance in the area right in front of the car than the halogen setup. The difference is the wider spread of light to the sides of the car.

So what happens when you put HIDs in a halogen projector? Hypothetically lets use a kit that had perfect light source alignment (which rarely happens) and the problem with the arc shape vs the filament wasn't a problem (which is absolutely impossible). So now we have a light source that is twice as bright as the stock one. It should produce an identical beam pattern and glare areas, but this pattern and glare will now have twice the luminance (twice as bright when projected on the ground or what ever is in front of you). So there should be twice the glare from what the stock bulbs produced, and your fairly narrow beam has twice the light in a super concentrated pattern directly in front of the car.

I know what you are thinking. Twice the light even in your stock pattern is a great thing. Well you are wrong. You hop in the car after the kit is installed and you think wow this is amazing. They are so bright, and they are. But something else is happening that you are probably unaware of. Your eyes adjust your pupils based on the brightest light concentration in your field of view. So your pupils constricted to adjust to the new higher luminance levels of your "upgraded headlights". So why is this bad? How often do you look outside of your beam pattern? If you drive at a fairly high speeds and can't use your highs you probably look ahead of your lights fairly often. What about the sides of the pattern? Deer, kids on Huffies, and homeless people with grocery carts always seem to pop out of nowhere from the sides of your car. Your pupils are already constricted, so light entering your eyes appears much dimmer than it appeared before your "upgrade". Less light is now entering your eyes from these areas outside the pattern. Which lights do you think would help you see the rouge homeless man? Your super concentrated pupil constricting ghetto HID kit, or your factory engineered and tested lighting setup? When you flip your highs on it doesn't get much better. The same thing happens less light is entering your constricted eyes from your high beam area and making your ability to see worse. Stock HID setups don't have this problem because they spread the light out more and have similar peak luminance levels to halogen setups.

If you want to see exactly what your eyes are doing try this. Stand inside a dark room at night in front of a window. Look outside and let your eyes adjust. It is probably fairly easy to see things outside. Now flip a light on in the room and let your eyes adjust. It is now really bright in the room and the amount of light outside hasn't changed, but you probably can't see much out there. The same thing is happening with your headlights. The dark room thing just exaggerates it to the point where it is much more obvious to you.

This is a section of an article from Daniel Sterns site talking about the same thing. The article can be found HERE.

Note: When he refers to "retrofit" in this quoted section, he is talking about plug and play hid kits. If you read the whole article it shows that he lumps hid kits and what we generally call retrofits into one category for this article, calling them all "retrofits". He then breaks that term down into using HID kits and real retrofits and describes the drawbacks of both.

Quote:
...
The most dangerous part of the attempt to "retrofit" Xenon headlamps is that sometimes you get a deceptive and illusory "improvement" in the performance of the headlamp. The performance of the headlamp is perceived to be "better" because of the much higher level of foreground lighting (on the road immediately in front of the car). However, the beam patterns produced by this kind of "conversion" virtually always give less distance light, and often an alarming lack of light where there's meant to be a relative maximum in light intensity. The result is the illusion that you can see better than you actually can, and that's not safe.

It's tricky to judge headlamp beam performance without a lot of knowledge, a lot of training and a lot of special equipment, because subjective perceptions are very misleading. Having a lot of strong light in the foreground, that is on the road close to the car and out to the sides, is very comforting and reliably produces a strong impression of "good headlights". The problem is that not only is foreground lighting of decidedly secondary importance when travelling much above 30 mph, but having a very strong pool of light close to the car causes your pupils to close down, worsening your distance vision...all the while giving you this false sense of security. This is to say nothing of the massive amounts of glare to other road users and backdazzle to you, the driver, that results from these "retrofits".
...
So what have we learned, more light is not always better, more light in the right places is better.

Last edited by FourOnTheFloor65; 01-31-2010 at 04:45 PM.
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Old 01-31-2010, 12:17 AM   #18
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I'm comparing the light with the kit to the OEM H11 halogens. The origonal
setup had poor output. Even Consumer Reports rates the 2008-2010 Impreza
halogen low beams slightly worse than average.
The light output I have now, with the cutoff, is similar to my previous car. I
had a 2001 Audi A4 with OEM 4300K D2S HIDs.
Nobody has flashed me in the 10 months that I have this kit.
I recommend using 4300k or 5000K in a 35 watt kit.
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Old 01-31-2010, 04:45 PM   #19
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Sorry I meant H11 not H7. I fixed it.
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