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Old 12-23-2009, 08:26 PM   #1
Tweeder
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Default Build Cost? Build Options?

Hey,

Currently i have a 2002 WRX that is stage 2. I am having some issues with the car and after having it for a while i feel like some more power would be nice. So with that i am contemplating building a motor for the car.

What i would like the major components to be is a ej22t block with a 30r or 35r.

With saying that i know i will need a complete built bottom end and a set of good flowing heads, better clutch, better transmission and so fourth.

What is normally the expected budget to build a motor with those major components. I am shooting realistic with this and know it will be a lot but i would like to start budgeting myself now so in the future i can have the cash readily availabe instead of buying on credit.

I guess the other question what would be the best build for that block.
STI rods?
Forged Pistons?
STI heads or WRX heads?
30r/35r?
standalone unit/ piggy back ecu?
Bigger TMIC/FMIC
Reversed Intake Mani/Stock Intake Mani

Lay an idea for me please so i can start creating a build plan. One must is that my WRX set up be left alone so i can through that into an older L or something for a DD and make my WRX more of a track car.
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Old 12-23-2009, 08:35 PM   #2
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10-15k depending on how much work you do yourself.

Then you start breaking stuff......
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Old 12-23-2009, 08:43 PM   #3
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Haha thanks for the info. I will be pulling the engine and doing most of the build myself. When it comes to the head work i will leave that to the professionals as i have no experience with that.
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Old 12-23-2009, 09:25 PM   #4
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as rude as this may sound.... you are at the crossover point now.... once you pass it, you can't come back, and every dime you spend on the car will be a loss if you ever have to sell it or want to sell it.....




My best advice would be to push your stock EJ205 until it has a problem or rebuild your engine with some Wisecos and STI rods and call it good....


If you go too big on the turbo, you will be breaking transmissions... and that is a $4500 fix to go 6 speed or built 5 speed....


by the time you spend $12K-$15K on your car, you will be beating yourself up about it.... believe me..... I know...


it is your car, so do what you wish, but I would recommend just saving up and buying a good used STI with all the good parts that you want anyways, and putting a nice turbo on it that will allow 300whp on the stock block.... It will be very fast, reliable, and you won't lose on the resale if you decide to swap to something else....


otherwise, I have seen too many owners mod their WRX's and lose their butt if/when they go to sell them.....



My vote is stay with the WRX drivetrain and swap to a better turbo/intercooler that will wring more out the EJ205 block like 280-300whp..... real power........ at least you shouldn't kill the tranny if you keep the 2.0L in it....

or buy an STI.....


Sorry if this hurts feelings now, but believe me, it will save you a bunch of heartache in the long run....
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Old 12-23-2009, 09:54 PM   #5
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Ryno speaks the the truth..

Try to do as much of the work yourself as you can though to make the sting a bit more bearable.
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Old 12-23-2009, 09:54 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tweeder View Post
Hey,

Currently i have a 2002 WRX that is stage 2. I am having some issues with the car and after having it for a while i feel like some more power would be nice. So with that i am contemplating building a motor for the car.

What i would like the major components to be is a ej22t block with a 30r or 35r.

With saying that i know i will need a complete built bottom end and a set of good flowing heads, better clutch, better transmission and so fourth.

What is normally the expected budget to build a motor with those major components. I am shooting realistic with this and know it will be a lot but i would like to start budgeting myself now so in the future i can have the cash readily availabe instead of buying on credit.

I guess the other question what would be the best build for that block.
STI rods?
Forged Pistons?
STI heads or WRX heads?
30r/35r?
standalone unit/ piggy back ecu?
Bigger TMIC/FMIC
Reversed Intake Mani/Stock Intake Mani

Lay an idea for me please so i can start creating a build plan. One must is that my WRX set up be left alone so i can through that into an older L or something for a DD and make my WRX more of a track car.
Using the WRX heads will make life easy... as will keeping the intake manifold in the stock location. You definitely want forged pistons- and STI rods will be fine- or Eagles, they're fairly inexpensive as well. I'd suggest cams moreso than expensive head porting... but it depends on your power goals. The drivetrain is the annoying part- you'll be pushing it- and if you want a "track car" - you need to spend the money to upgrade the transmission at the very least. As far as the ECU - talk to whoever is going to tune the car- discuss the power and features you want out of the ECU and your decision should basically be made for you. You really won't get far with less than $9000 for a budget-oriented build even.
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Old 12-23-2009, 10:05 PM   #7
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do eet! then you can post in the 10k build thread. its worth it! lol
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Old 12-23-2009, 10:17 PM   #8
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yeah be expecting to cough up at least aroung 12-15k and then the unexpected can happen. like for a example.. my friend's motor blew then he went through this guy to rebuild his motor. his prices were great and supposively he had race cars all around the nation with his motors. well with just a few thousand miles his motor blew again. then he got it rebuilt by the same guy, then it blew again, then the engine builder built it again under warrenty, then it blew again!

the worst luck ever. turns out this engine builder was a total douche bag and doesn't know wth he is doing.

point is be expecting problems and if you want a built wrx then hell i think it's a great idea. i would build a hybrid motor (using wrx heads) i have one and it turned out to be great.

h beam forged rods (they're really not much and benefical if you want a 35r)
cp pistons (custom if you want)
oem or acl bearings. whatever you want, both are good.
whatever headgasket that matches your setup.
30r for daily or 35r for the power
aem or hydra are some cool standalones
your wanting big power so skip the tmic bs and get a fmic
you can reverse your manifold but they said there really isn't any performance improvements.
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Old 12-23-2009, 10:58 PM   #9
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because I don't know as much as OWNIJ does, I must say that you should follow his advice.....


watch out for scheming builders looking to take advantage of someone by building them three good engines for the price of one; because the engine's owner had no idea what was going on and ran it low on oil once and screwed a fitting with the wrong threads into the back of the head which dumped metal shaviangs into the oil galley and wiped the bearings out, and then spent more than 50 hours on the phone with the engine's owner and in PM's helping out..... those guys are all around....... damn douchbags...


Hey Ownij, what does your car put down on a Mustang DYNO now? or do you have any numbers on it besides the software dyno?

I was hoping to hear some good real numbers out of your combination with the GT3076R








Quote:
Originally Posted by ownnij View Post
yeah be expecting to cough up at least aroung 12-15k and then the unexpected can happen. like for a example.. my friend's motor blew then he went through this guy to rebuild his motor. his prices were great and supposively he had race cars all around the nation with his motors. well with just a few thousand miles his motor blew again. then he got it rebuilt by the same guy, then it blew again, then the engine builder built it again under warrenty, then it blew again!

the worst luck ever. turns out this engine builder was a total douche bag and doesn't know wth he is doing.

point is be expecting problems and if you want a built wrx then hell i think it's a great idea. i would build a hybrid motor (using wrx heads) i have one and it turned out to be great.

h beam forged rods (they're really not much and benefical if you want a 35r)
cp pistons (custom if you want)
oem or acl bearings. whatever you want, both are good.
whatever headgasket that matches your setup.
30r for daily or 35r for the power
aem or hydra are some cool standalones
your wanting big power so skip the tmic bs and get a fmic
you can reverse your manifold but they said there really isn't any performance improvements.
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Old 12-23-2009, 11:27 PM   #10
Tweeder
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Hey guys thanks for all the advice as i will keep it all in mind on the journey of the vehicle.

Basically what i have right now is
2002 WRX
STI TMIC
EWG Up-Pipe
Stromung Divorced Bell Mouth Down Pipe
Esplir Exhaust
Utec Enginemanagement
ACT Street Disc Clutch
SPT Short Throw Shifter
KYB AGX Struts
Eibach Prokit Springs
AEM Big Brake kit in the front
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Old 12-23-2009, 11:31 PM   #11
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Basically right now im having a hesitation issue with the car when i get into boost. Sounds like fuel cut off. And today while drive it a little into boost the a CEL flashed but did not stay on. The last CEL the car had was a P0172 (Bank 1 Rich) And did some work got rid of the CEL but it still doesnt run right.

I do have a vf30, pink injectors and a warlboro pump sitting on a shelf waiting to be installed. But i would love to get the car out to the track and after a few driver mods get more competitive. And im affraid that with just a vf30 setup might not be enough to be competitive.
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Old 12-23-2009, 11:55 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tweeder View Post
Basically right now im having a hesitation issue with the car when i get into boost. Sounds like fuel cut off. And today while drive it a little into boost the a CEL flashed but did not stay on. The last CEL the car had was a P0172 (Bank 1 Rich) And did some work got rid of the CEL but it still doesnt run right.

I do have a vf30, pink injectors and a warlboro pump sitting on a shelf waiting to be installed. But i would love to get the car out to the track and after a few driver mods get more competitive. And im affraid that with just a vf30 setup might not be enough to be competitive.
being competitive at the track is more about what class your in and building a car for that class. if you have fully built suby like you are talking about you wont be competitive as you will be racing against other fully built subys with probably a much bigger budget than yours. my friend races in red line time attact and he is actually de modding his car for this exact reason.better to be the fastest car in a slower class than the slowest car in the fastest class...
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Old 12-24-2009, 01:22 AM   #13
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if you care about having a reliable car and it must be a subi, build your ej22 or ej205 and you will be out the ass for money


or buy an evo, they support under 400whp on the stock turbo pretty damn reliably...I was out the but when I sold my STi(engine went too) and now I drive a camry.
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Old 12-25-2009, 12:06 PM   #14
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sounds expensive.. haha
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Old 12-25-2009, 11:33 PM   #15
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I was thinking about rebuilding my EJ22 also but after researching its not gonna happen.

The rebuild for the engine would cost you around 5,000 if you do it on a budget. You gotta beef up your drivetrain too which would probably cost even more. Better brakes and shocks are a good idea too. Unless you have crazy amounts of money and time, buying a used sti would be a better idea.
BTW alot of parts for the EJ22 are way overpriced, compared with the same parts for a EJ20 or EJ25. (High performance Crank for EJ22-$6,000.00, Crank for EJ20-$2,000.00
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Old 12-26-2009, 09:59 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by GuitarGuru View Post
I was thinking about rebuilding my EJ22 also but after researching its not gonna happen.

The rebuild for the engine would cost you around 5,000 if you do it on a budget. You gotta beef up your drivetrain too which would probably cost even more. Better brakes and shocks are a good idea too. Unless you have crazy amounts of money and time, buying a used sti would be a better idea.
BTW alot of parts for the EJ22 are way overpriced, compared with the same parts for a EJ20 or EJ25. (High performance Crank for EJ22-$6,000.00, Crank for EJ20-$2,000.00
EJ22 parts are not overpriced. You just have to know what you're doing. I'm running the new WRX crank in my EJ22T. I had a machine shop cut out main #5 for phase2 crank. Very simple....didn't cost much; think full tank of 92oct. Run rods for WRX/STi, custom pistons... My long block build is costing me roughly $6000 parts and machine work. I am putting my motor back together myself. My DoubleD '06 WRX heads will be going onto the EJ22T.
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Old 12-26-2009, 02:01 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FuJi K View Post
EJ22 parts are not overpriced. You just have to know what you're doing. I'm running the new WRX crank in my EJ22T. I had a machine shop cut out main #5 for phase2 crank. Very simple....didn't cost much; think full tank of 92oct. Run rods for WRX/STi, custom pistons... My long block build is costing me roughly $6000 parts and machine work. I am putting my motor back together myself. My DoubleD '06 WRX heads will be going onto the EJ22T.
Is the power output of the EJ22T worth the trouble of building?
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Old 12-27-2009, 12:41 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by GuitarGuru View Post
Is the power output of the EJ22T worth the trouble of building?
we'll find out this spring
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Old 12-27-2009, 03:35 PM   #19
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i would love to see what that would be too. Now im looking maybe at an ej257 shortblock seeing it is tried and proven formula.
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Old 12-27-2009, 03:44 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ownnij View Post
yeah be expecting to cough up at least aroung 12-15k and then the unexpected can happen. like for a example.. my friend's motor blew then he went through this guy to rebuild his motor. his prices were great and supposively he had race cars all around the nation with his motors. well with just a few thousand miles his motor blew again. then he got it rebuilt by the same guy, then it blew again, then the engine builder built it again under warrenty, then it blew again!

the worst luck ever. turns out this engine builder was a total douche bag and doesn't know wth he is doing.
how does the saying go....fool me 1 through 3 times shame on you fool me 4 time shame on me?....no that doesn't sound right...oh well i don't think that saying applies here

btw...who was the builder? i'm from irving
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Old 01-08-2010, 05:36 PM   #21
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yes...i am interested in the name of the builder as well. I am in the process of building right now, and don't want to have to go through this...i don't have the time nor the money...
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Old 01-08-2010, 07:55 PM   #22
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yes...i am interested in the name of the builder as well. I am in the process of building right now, and don't want to have to go through this...i don't have the time nor the money...
The builder was someone from East Texas and after all the bull**** it is now being correctly fixed by AWDTuning.
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Old 01-08-2010, 08:26 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by fatcircles View Post
The builder was someone from East Texas and after all the bull**** it is now being correctly fixed by AWDTuning.
AWDTuning is a great choice....you'll be very happy!
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Old 01-08-2010, 08:48 PM   #24
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No one ever asked.

How much power are you looking for?

<400whp and $2500 should get you a reliable 2.5 motor and Delta Camshaft heads....

Thats where I am at.

2.5 NA block (used and bored to 100mm) $250
100 mm Wiseco pistons(used with new rings) $250
STI rods (used) $100
ACL bearings $100
Used crank with polished bearing surfaces $100
1997 JDM Legacy Heads with oversized valves $700
Upgraded clutch $400
Gaskets $250
Misc.... $200

$2300!

This is my daily driver family car, pushing about 350whp on 800cc injectors...
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Old 01-09-2010, 07:35 PM   #25
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I know a little about being assed out on modding a car. And a little about building two engines in a year due to poor assembly and machine work. Sad but true. I now have double what my car is worth invested in it. It's a good thing I like going fast and had the money to fix it. Sucks that this engine cost me the down payment on a house. Just be careful who you deal with. You could get an STi Block and put pistons in it with the right head gaskets for 2.0 heads and be safe. You just gotta make sure the compression is ok and the pistons dont hit the heads. That may be the least expensive and easiest way to go. Good Luck on your build.
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