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Old 04-18-2011, 03:12 PM   #301
subi400
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Been following this for awhile now, very interested to see the gains/sound that this makes. Might be picking up these for my 96 impreza outback depending on price...
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Old 04-18-2011, 04:06 PM   #302
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moore Performance View Post
Also, we installed just our catback on an 07 2.5i satuday (it fit perfectly) and it's going back on the dyno friday morning, so we should have back to back data for that car as well.
can not freekin wait!
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Old 04-18-2011, 05:52 PM   #303
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Originally Posted by grafton View Post
I'd love to do a comparison vs my OBX headers on my high compression hybrid...
Do it!
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Old 04-19-2011, 07:00 PM   #304
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Originally Posted by cessna152 View Post
Any numbers?

Here you go..... These are the peak numbers on a local Mustang dyno and the owner just called me to tell me how the car performed back in it's stock form with no other changes other than the header/catpipe/catback. He'll probably post the graph up later tonight or he'll scan it and send it to me and I'll post it. He said the car makes power everywhere on the graph from start to finish.

Completely stock: (peak power) 93whp 111wtq

Stock + header/catpipe/catback: (peak power) 111whp 128wtq


A solid 18whp and 17wtq gain and more power everywhere on the graph for doing only these three bolt on parts while maintaining a more UEL sound for the customer.....not to bad. The graph will be up later tonight and the car is now getting ready for it's other bolt on parts, ceramic coated header/catpipe and a hydra ecu. We're looking forward to seeing what kind of power it will make with a real tune and better than 87 octane fuel!
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Old 04-19-2011, 07:06 PM   #305
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That's not bad, actually. That's a touch more than what I gained from stock when I went to the Borla UEL headers but not quite as much as when I went to the OBX EL headers. In other words, basically what you'd expect from a UEL setup with good merges. Well done.

So, somewhat better power than the Borlas, MUCH better build quality, what's the pricing by the time you get the header and whatever else is required to make it mate up to an existing exhaust system?
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Old 04-19-2011, 07:08 PM   #306
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Impressive. Looking forward to the graph. Now do the same for the 05-07 guys, and the 08+ guys and you'll have a corner on the UEL market.
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Old 04-19-2011, 07:22 PM   #307
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Originally Posted by williaty View Post
That's not bad, actually. That's a touch more than what I gained from stock when I went to the Borla UEL headers but not quite as much as when I went to the OBX EL headers. In other words, basically what you'd expect from a UEL setup with good merges. Well done.

So, somewhat better power than the Borlas, MUCH better build quality, what's the pricing by the time you get the header and whatever else is required to make it mate up to an existing exhaust system?

Thank you. We are now going to start looking at the exact pricing for this setup for production, b/c just like anything the first few test or pre-production pieces cost the most. We should have some things figured out over the next week or two and we're super busy right now finishing up a few cars for upcoming dyno sessions, autox event, etc. I'll keep you posted.
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Old 04-20-2011, 12:19 AM   #308
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Originally Posted by Moore Performance View Post
Here you go..... These are the peak numbers on a local Mustang dyno and the owner just called me to tell me how the car performed back in it's stock form with no other changes other than the header/catpipe/catback. He'll probably post the graph up later tonight or he'll scan it and send it to me and I'll post it. He said the car makes power everywhere on the graph from start to finish.

Completely stock: (peak power) 93whp 111wtq

Stock + header/catpipe/catback: (peak power) 111whp 128wtq


A solid 18whp and 17wtq gain and more power everywhere on the graph for doing only these three bolt on parts while maintaining a more UEL sound for the customer.....not to bad. The graph will be up later tonight and the car is now getting ready for it's other bolt on parts, ceramic coated header/catpipe and a hydra ecu. We're looking forward to seeing what kind of power it will make with a real tune and better than 87 octane fuel!
WOO vindication for my close ratio UEL header theory!
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Old 04-20-2011, 01:02 AM   #309
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Sweet!
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Old 04-20-2011, 01:11 AM   #310
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Alright boys here is the graph.. This is literally a picture of the print out but it will have to do until I can actually scan it at work. As you can see there are gains the whole way through the graph and I am MORE than happy with these gains.
http://i.imgur.com/ZomHS.jpg
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Old 04-20-2011, 01:12 AM   #311
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Originally Posted by WastingTime View Post
Alright boys here is the graph.. This is literally a picture of the print out but it will have to do until I can actually scan it at work. As you can see there are gains the whole way through the graph and I am MORE than happy with these gains.
http://i.imgur.com/ZomHS.jpg
Will this set up work on a 2010 2.5i?
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Old 04-20-2011, 09:41 AM   #312
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Uh oh what is that? Gains? From an UEL? No waaaaayyyyyy! Thanks for getting the numbers up to silence to ignorance
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Old 04-20-2011, 11:39 AM   #313
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^^ ha
I'm also surprised williaty didn't start grudging around about the dyno and how there's no way those numbers are meaningful because of the moon's positioning and its gravitational pull, etc...

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Old 04-20-2011, 11:48 AM   #314
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Originally Posted by mattmak View Post
^^ ha
I'm also surprised williaty didn't start grudging around about the dyno and how there's no way those numbers are meaningful because of the moon's positioning and its gravitational pull, etc...

LOL true that!
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Old 04-20-2011, 11:52 AM   #315
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I'm glad you guys like the numbers. We expect the car to make a lot more when the Hydra is in and tuned correctly.
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Old 04-20-2011, 01:14 PM   #316
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excellent work. the construction looks very high quality and impressive numbers to back it up is even better. now i'm curious how much more power your EL version will make over your UEL considering how well it did.
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Old 04-20-2011, 02:15 PM   #317
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Nice numbers. Interested when you guys release this for sale.
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Old 04-20-2011, 03:05 PM   #318
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Originally Posted by GEE-OTTO View Post
Uh oh what is that? Gains? From an UEL? No waaaaayyyyyy! Thanks for getting the numbers up to silence to ignorance
It's been known there's gains from UEL for longer than I've been here. Hell, I've even published it. The argument from me, and others, is that the gains aren't big enough to justify the mod. Why pay to gain 5% from a borla rep when you can gain 15% from an OBX, in other words. This header will muddy the waters a bit. It looks like it'll gain almost as much as the OBX. However, my fear is that, once Moore releases pricing on the whole system that'll be required, you'll be in TWE territory, not Borla/OBX territory. At that point, it again makes more sense to buy the higher-power EL option.

Pricing is going to be the single most critical thing on these.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mattmak View Post
^^ ha
I'm also surprised williaty didn't start grudging around about the dyno and how there's no way those numbers are meaningful because of the moon's positioning and its gravitational pull, etc...

1) I trust these guys to at least try to do it right (I've dealt with the shop personally)

2) The gains are outside of the margin or error for simple mistakes and, like I said, I trust them not to DELIBERATELY fudge the numbers

3) Most importantly, their numbers actually make sense in the context of design theory and my personal experience. Had they shown gains twice what they did, I would be calling BS. However, what they gained is pretty much exactly what you'd expect from a UEL header that was well made and had good merges.


When I start grouching about the dyno's un-reliability is when it's a shop known for being shady (like Xcelleration), when the numbers are so close to each other that it's basically impossible to get them out of the "noise" of all the things that can vary with a dyno, or when the results defy common sense.
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Old 04-20-2011, 09:18 PM   #319
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Ty,
believe it or not, I knew there was a reason you were showing the respect you did.

personally, I welcome all legit improvements for our cars, so this is kind of exciting (and would be even more so had I not already bought good headers).

the part certainly looks nice, and I like the product photography.

M
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Old 04-20-2011, 11:05 PM   #320
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Originally Posted by mattmak View Post

the part certainly looks nice, and I like the product photography.

M
Thanks! (says the Moore Performance photographer)

ha ha
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Old 04-20-2011, 11:08 PM   #321
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Ty shows up LOL! Look I get your point just giving you a hard time you are 100% percent right once MP gives the price I imagine the "oh man idk about that much for sound" or "well for that I can get Borlas" posts will show up.

End of the day you and I both know the N/A crowd is useless and not viable as a customer base for this particular market segment. My advice to Moore's focus on the turbo projects and make a small batch maybe 10 of these headers only after you have 10 deposits

The turbo crowd is your go to segment and maybe the Auto-X N/A guys but gain only after you get a deposit.

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Old 04-21-2011, 03:03 PM   #322
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Originally Posted by WastingTime View Post
This is literally a picture of the print out but it will have to do until I can actually scan it at work.
http://i.imgur.com/ZomHS.jpg
Srsly? Maybe you should've let FXTSPORTS08 take the picture of the graph so it would be legible!

Last edited by Patrick Olsen; 04-21-2011 at 03:10 PM.
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Old 04-21-2011, 05:05 PM   #323
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Originally Posted by williaty View Post
That's not bad, actually. That's a touch more than what I gained from stock when I went to the Borla UEL headers but not quite as much as when I went to the OBX EL headers. In other words, basically what you'd expect from a UEL setup with good merges. Well done.

So, somewhat better power than the Borlas, MUCH better build quality, what's the pricing by the time you get the header and whatever else is required to make it mate up to an existing exhaust system?
Thanks for the kind words. Do you happen to have a graph of your setup stock vs. your setup w. the Borla? I'd like to see how/where it gained. What I liek about this setup is that is didn't lose power ANYWHERE.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Olsen View Post
Srsly? Maybe you should've let FXTSPORTS08 take the picture of the graph so it would be legible!
LOL Good stuff.
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Old 04-21-2011, 05:13 PM   #324
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Originally Posted by garagedefeat View Post
Thanks for the kind words. Do you happen to have a graph of your setup stock vs. your setup w. the Borla? I'd like to see how/where it gained. What I liek about this setup is that is didn't lose power ANYWHERE.
No, I don't have it easily accessible and I don't have the time to dig it out of the files and digitize it. Basically, no losses anywhere, biggest gains below peak torque, tapering down as RPM rises, pushed peak HP up about 8%, but then was stock-like from about 5300-7000 RPM. OBX basically did more of that (pushed the line straight upwards).

TWE headers, on the other hand, had HUGE torque gains over the OBX (which means just tremendous above stock) and then hold that torque gain another 800RPM above the other headers and then taper off more slowly. Basically, they're flat +/- 5% from 2200RPM to about 6600RPM and aren't out of breath yet at 7000RPM. That's why the TWE headers showed the big power gain. They just kept breathing longer.
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Old 04-21-2011, 08:00 PM   #325
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Originally Posted by Patrick Olsen View Post
Srsly? Maybe you should've let FXTSPORTS08 take the picture of the graph so it would be legible!

That picture was taken with my cell right after the car got off the dyno. I will get it scanned soon.
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