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Old 06-24-2010, 02:11 AM   #176
williaty
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Delta 1000 grind in there at the moment, otherwise the heads are stock. That's actually a limitation because I can't spin it past 6500RPM due to the stock valve springs. The engine hasn't stopped breathing, or even tailed off, by the time I hit the fuel cut.
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Old 07-07-2010, 02:08 PM   #177
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Moore's Performance


any other news on development? i know the TS project was looking good
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Old 07-12-2010, 11:06 AM   #178
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Back Road Runner View Post

As for Moore, yeah, I would hope to think that this is basically the conundrum. For anyone making an aftermarket part or any product that needs to compete well in a market, you need to find that sweet spot. I think you guys just need to spend some time prototyping. Spend the upfront resources and build a half dozen different designs. Do 1.5" primaries with a 40" length paired to a 2" exhaust. Measure power, economy, and crutch cost numbers. Do a 1.625" primary in 40" and 30" collected into a 2.25" exhaust and see how the power band changes. See if fuel economy changes. Crunch cost numbers. Step up to a 1.75" primary and run a 30" and 40" length. Dump into a 2.5" exhaust and see what changes. You may do this in large steps or simply adjust one factor at a time and get data. Build a small collection of headers and gather the info you need. Purchase the Borla, the Cobb copy OBX, and one or both of the TWE headers and dyno all of them. To regain some cost, raffle off the headers to the public at a decent price, say $400-$500 and indicate what each header is better suited for. You can sell off the Borla, OBX, and TWE headers near the cost to you. Certain gearing will favor certain people, so someone will be happy with each design. Frankly, anything well built will have gains over stock, and most people will be happy to purchase any one of them at a decent price. Then take the best prototype package and start selling that as your main product. You may even think about selling 2 or 3 types like a high mileage version, the optimum unmodified version, and a high rpm version for a built engine. You could certainly do these made to order, so you never have any inventory costs and invested money. Someone orders, and you start building it. That way there's no burden to you. The buyer won't see the header at their door 3 days later, but most people would be very content waiting a couple weeks to have a good product built for them.

I will also note you may want to look into some engine modeling software as a guide. There's a program called Engine Analyzer Pro that has a free, fully working demo that lasts I think 10 days or so. You can use that as a guide to kind of show what difference it makes to change runner diameter, runner length, collector diameter, and collector length. It may help with trying out some initial design choices. I also suggest that you look into the concept of "anti-reversion" and see what is needed to help prevent the feeding of exhaust gases back into the combustion chamber and intake and contaminate the next cycle. Proper sizing and design choices will minimize this effect. I also want to note that a specific exhaust design may make more power on the stock ECU tune than another header, however the other header may actually make more power with a revised ECU tune that may take advantage of more timing with the other design. Little details play big roles.

In the end you may or may not create a product for sale. At the very least, it will be a learning experience for your company. You will very much get good at building exhausts and know what works well on these engines. This could very well translate into custom work for customers down the road and into the public market if you do actually find this endevour economically feasible.
We actually work with a few very well known companies for our pre-prototype computer analysis about header sizes, designs, etc before we even build an actual prototype and we also work with one company in particular for their collector designs. We will definitely take as much information as we can into account before we begin building any prototypes, and as things begin to unfold I'll let you know. As I mentioned before, we're pretty busy with the new turbo products but I'll keep you posted.
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Old 01-13-2011, 03:56 PM   #179
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bumping this for an n/a header in the works. It's going on a daily driven auto-x 2.5rs looking for a bit of an advantage in its class.

emphasis on smoothing flow, while at the same time retaining boxer rumble characteristics.
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Old 01-13-2011, 10:36 PM   #180
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I am about to buy uel headers for my 98 gt off of a 2005 2.5 impreza. Currently I have a 2.5" borla cat back on now. Will this work and what type of effect should I see from this, both positive and negatively?
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Old 01-15-2011, 11:56 PM   #181
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I am about to buy uel headers for my 98 gt off of a 2005 2.5 impreza. Currently I have a 2.5" borla cat back on now. Will this work and what type of effect should I see from this, both positive and negatively?
UEL is always going to compromise ultimate performance. However, many customers prefer solid performance and boxer rumble over ultimate performance. UEL, with proper tubing diameters and smooth transitions, will be Moore Performance's first n/a header design. Although we'll build an equal length if there's enough demand
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Old 01-16-2011, 12:43 AM   #182
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Originally Posted by garagedefeat View Post
UEL is always going to compromise ultimate performance. However, many customers prefer solid performance and boxer rumble over ultimate performance. UEL, with proper tubing diameters and smooth transitions, will be Moore Performance's first n/a header design. Although we'll build an equal length if there's enough demand
No EL to compete with TWE???? 06+ boys and girls need a header header upgrade like form TWE... I've got and 08 impreza and I absolutely hate that I cant get a bolt on from TWE, Every time i see a post where someone says they're packin a TWE header I PM them and they say there is no other choice for them. I know that doesnt prove much but hell why would they lie? I bought the UEL stuff off ebay and even after I forced and pried them on they were crushing my power steering lines. As far as the Rallisport Racing HFC pipe, I needed to lengthen it 2.5 inches and with that POS header that was crushing my power steering lines I just returned everything. *sigh*
I wasnt gonna waste my time on crap. Although the Rallisport Racing HFC pipe was beautifully crafted it needed to be lengthened so between that and the bull crap header off ebay, i just gave it all back. Personally I want performance and getting a nice EL header like Williaty's from TWE would be amazing for me. I'd personally like to sound different than our WRX and STI brothers, so when we come down the street people say, " wow that N/A scoob sounds BAD ASS!" (not that the Turbo models dont sound good) I'm just sayin lets have awesome power, what Williaty's reporting off his TWE header is AMAZING!!!! I'd like a sound clip off him(plz) hahaha! Help us Moore plz plz! I have a Hybrid intake and I'm holding off on doing my cams cuz theres
no darn header for my car

Subarus UNITE!
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Old 03-01-2011, 07:33 PM   #183
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^^^ well we're starting to get more inquiries for the 08+ stuff so i'm sure we will be looking closely at making a setup for your car.



But for now, we're ready to unveil a working prototype for a late 90's/early 00's impreza's and foresters.

It's UNEQUAL LENGTH. But before y'all get yer panties in a bunch, it can EASILY be converted to E.L.

Our customer wanted excellent flow, but an unequal design (for obvious aural reasons). We built him what he wanted, while at the same time retaining enough modularity to convert to equal length if there is enough demand.


pics of the Moore Performance Secret Flow Magnifier™ to come very shortly
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Old 03-02-2011, 11:58 AM   #184
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garagedefeat View Post
^^^ well we're starting to get more inquiries for the 08+ stuff so i'm sure we will be looking closely at making a setup for your car.



But for now, we're ready to unveil a working prototype for a late 90's/early 00's impreza's and foresters.

It's UNEQUAL LENGTH. But before y'all get yer panties in a bunch, it can EASILY be converted to E.L.

Our customer wanted excellent flow, but an unequal design (for obvious aural reasons). We built him what he wanted, while at the same time retaining enough modularity to convert to equal length if there is enough demand.


pics of the Moore Performance Secret Flow Magnifier™ to come very shortly

There are only a few that pro-EL many many more want a UEL solution so of course this is going to be interesting
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Old 03-02-2011, 04:48 PM   #185
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GEE-OTTO View Post
There are only a few that pro-EL many many more want a UEL solution so of course this is going to be interesting
That's definitely reassuring.

You'll want to see this one then.

grab your and sit tight for a few.
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Old 03-02-2011, 05:59 PM   #186
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GEE-OTTO View Post
There are only a few that pro-EL many many more want a UEL solution so of course this is going to be interesting
Quote:
Originally Posted by garagedefeat View Post
That's definitely reassuring.
Here's the other half of that story, though:

People who just want sound are the guys who are going to bleed you for every penny, whine about pricing, and be support/service nightmares.

People who want the most power are going to be more likely to accept that they have to pay to play and be less of a hassle to deal with so long as you do the right thing on the first try.


Generalizations, obviously, but that's what my experience with the Subaru public has been as a vendor.
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Old 03-03-2011, 02:15 AM   #187
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I can tell you right now. I'd pay what you are asking for a set of bolt on, no code.throwing, uel headers for my 09 legacy 2.5i plz get back to.me.if you guys design one
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Old 03-03-2011, 09:06 AM   #188
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Here's the other half of that story, though:

People who just want sound are the guys who are going to bleed you for every penny, whine about pricing, and be support/service nightmares.

People who want the most power are going to be more likely to accept that they have to pay to play and be less of a hassle to deal with so long as you do the right thing on the first try.


Generalizations, obviously, but that's what my experience with the Subaru public has been as a vendor.
Well I get your point the majority of N/A Subaru owners that want a header of any iteration aren't very serious unless it is CHEAP hence the large number of replica buyers and the resulting posts about it not being 100% "right".

Whatever happens I solved my desires for UEL through fabrication and saw gains over the stock manifold. I would like to see a header solution for the community in whatever configuration but I would hate to see a vendor confidence erode b/c of the community. I guess as a N/A vendor you shouldn't have high hopes only moderate hopes


Whats funny is if someone had a "racing chip" for sale people would line up to buy it. Look at the success of that Throttle Controller I tested for NTD over on the legacy forums 500 sold. I sometime feel like N/A Subaru guys are really Honda guys in the wrong car. I wanted a UEL setup but I also wanted gains to a degree, I got both. But some guys like 5" exhausts and hood scoops for the EJ253
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Old 03-03-2011, 10:25 AM   #189
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if you could make the TWE high output version any cheaper then that would be what i'm looking for.

i know i'm just after the highest power i can get, but only have so much cash.
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Old 03-03-2011, 11:08 AM   #190
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I'd be happy to help prototype any header designs, I'd do it for halfsies on the dyno cost.
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Old 03-03-2011, 12:32 PM   #191
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Finally got to the header last night and god DAMN it is pretty. I am completely blown away by the quality of the build, so major kudos go to Dale and Ryan. I can't wait for it to be on my car and get some serious numbers and sound clips of it.

If it performs half as good as it looks then I will be one happy customer.
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Old 03-03-2011, 02:09 PM   #192
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Finally got to the header last night and god DAMN it is pretty. I am completely blown away by the quality of the build, so major kudos go to Dale and Ryan. I can't wait for it to be on my car and get some serious numbers and sound clips of it.

If it performs half as good as it looks then I will be one happy customer.
Pics?
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Old 03-03-2011, 03:08 PM   #193
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Pics?
These are rough photos and all I have currently..

Taken on my Droid so bare with me.



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Old 03-03-2011, 03:26 PM   #194
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If you could come out with a EL header that will last, is reliably put together, and costs $6-700, I think you'd sell enough to make it worth your while.
This ^ +11111
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Old 03-03-2011, 03:46 PM   #195
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I like, looks very well put together. my predictions: rumble but not as deep/"rumbly" as borla's are BUT makes close to EL power (less than twe 421's but around OBX)
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Old 03-04-2011, 08:52 AM   #196
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MY question is where is the CBE to match it ? Nice design for the 98-05 crowd this should work well.
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Old 03-04-2011, 09:17 AM   #197
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what size is the piping?

1.75inch FTW?
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Old 03-04-2011, 06:23 PM   #198
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MY question is where is the CBE to match it ? Nice design for the 98-05 crowd this should work well.
The current Moore Performance cat-back will bolt up. The cat section is matched to both the header and the c.b.e. Cat section is available in standard high-flow (200 cel), race high flow (100 cel) and off-road test pipe configs. V-band provision on one end, 2 bolt on the other.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vicious_fishes
what size is the piping?

1.75inch FTW?
FTMW
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Old 03-04-2011, 08:16 PM   #199
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The current Moore Performance cat-back will bolt up. The cat section is matched to both the header and the c.b.e. Cat section is available in standard high-flow (200 cel), race high flow (100 cel) and off-road test pipe configs. V-band provision on one end, 2 bolt on the other.


FTMW
so the performance gains should compete with TWE right?

super excited for this. have boosted RS and want something that isn't $1000 like TWE.
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Old 03-04-2011, 08:24 PM   #200
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so the performance gains should compete with TWE right?

super excited for this. have boosted RS and want something that isn't $1000 like TWE.
The UEL version won't be even close.

The EL version will entirely depend on how well they do the pulse phasing. It's a game were literally 1/4" matters. Look at the 20hp difference between the OBX and the TWE EL headers. That's all in design of the pulse phasing.

In other words, don't get excited until we get end-user dyno numbers published.
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