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Old 12-27-2009, 02:01 PM   #1
AdamBOMB_STi
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LA Sleeved 2.5,35R,Hydra

Default Built motor, 35R, stock manifold vs. Cosworth Manifold

Event: Stock intake manifold vs. Cosworth Intake Manifold
Location: GST Motorsports; Hayward, CA & Sac Raceway; Sacramento, CA
Ambient Temp: 80's
Elevation: 111ft above sea level
Weather: sunny, dry, hot
Track and Conditions: concrete, clean, flat
Tires: Bridgestone RE01-R 265/35/18

Car: 2004 STi
Tuner: Jeff @ JC Tuning and myself
Dyno Info: Mustang
Peak HP at RPM: 486 AWHP uncorrected
Peak Torque at RPM: 400 AWTRQ uncorrected
Baseline hp/tq for a stock on same dyno: 220/220 Stock STi
Target Boost: 27psi
Target AFR: 11.5-11.8/1
Fuel: 116 leaded

Mods:
Modified original EJ257 longblock
Darton ductile iron sleeves w/copper O-rings
Balanced & polished stock STi crank
Manley Forged H-Beam Rods
Arias 9.5:1 forged pistons
ACL Race Bearings
ARP Headstuds
Fluidamper
Modified oem oil pump
Ferrea competition valvetrain
Custom Kelford AVCS Cams (276 in, 272 ex)
Peakboost GT uppipe and downpipe
Garrett GT35R turbo .82 hotside, true Garrett anti-surge compressor cover
Tial 44mm WG *custom dumptube*
Tial 50mm BOV
Ported Gruppe-S SS header
Buschur Racing exhaust
Hydra Nemesis EMS w/WB02
APS DR525 FMIC w/custom upper piping
Crucial Racing TGV Deletes
Perrin Fuel Rails w/custom lines and Aeromotive FPR
DW 900cc injectors
Hallman Pro RX MBC
NGK copper spark plugs
1.75L fuel swirl pot
Aeromotive A1000 Fuel pump
Fuelab 828 10 micron filter


I was given the task by my friend Ben @ BoomBopShop to do some testing for the new Cosworth Intake Manifold. Before I went ahead with the installation and testing I had the manifold powdercoated matte black. The install was a breeze aside from a quick run to the parts store for some hoses and coolant. The fitment is perfect and it just looks down right mean all said and done.

On to the good stuff. The specifics of the testing consisted of the stock intake manifold vs. the Cosworth intake manifold on the same map, boost, fuel, etc, etc. After that testing is complete Ben @ BoomBop wanted the map optimized for the Cosworth Manifold to see the maximum gains over tiny stock intake manifold.

Running Sunoco 116 Maximal I baselined my car on GST Motorsports AWD Mustang dyno running a map collaborated by Jeff @ JC Tuning and myself. Baseline numbers with the stock manifold were sitting right at 463whp/390wtrq, falling off pretty hard after 7k rpms. Boost was set at a comfortable 27psi and Air/Fuel ratios were at a very conservative 10.5:1 on spool up and 10.8:1 by redline. Mike @ GST and I had our speculations on why it was falling off. We thought it had to been either the stock intake mani, stock port heads, AFR's, and I was thinking possibly the timing falling off after 7k. We packed it up and called it a day since the numbers were not bad. When I got home I reviewed the spark map and found that after 7k the timing fell back down 6 degrees, possibly explaining the sharp drop off of power.

Fast forward to the Cosworth Manifold installed, the car was already showing significant gains on the SAME map. Right off the bat the torque was peaking 10ft/lbs more at 5k and 25whp higher by 8k redline. Making back to back runs ranging from 475-480whp and 400ft/lbs consistently. All on the same conservative map with crappy timing after 7k. I was astonished to see the torque flatten out across the powerband and the horsepower carry to redline with minimal drop off comparing to the stock manifold runs. The power gains under the curve is what really amazed me and lost NO spool or low end response only gaining by 50-100rpms. The powerband still wasn't to my liking as in some spots the hp and torque fell off.

I had prepared multiple maps to try after the stock vs. Cossie map testing was complete. In these maps I carried the timing from 7k all the way to 8k redline. As well I smoothed out the fuel map a little more. I decided to leave boost alone and keep it at 27psi to keep it accurate and fair. With the new map loaded Mike and I proceeded to warm the car up, first revving to 5.5k to make sure the map wasn't too far off. With everything looking cherry we set the dyno for 8k and proceeded with back to back dyno runs. With boost still set at 27psi and AFR's leaned out to 11.5:1 we ended up with consistent 480-487whp and 400-405ft/lbs pulls. In comparison with stock manifold, the Cosworth Intake Manifold smokes it all the way through with quicker spool and an overall more powerful powerband to redline. With the added timing and smoother fuel map the beauty of the Cosworth design really shined as it moves the air with precision, equating to precise power. I highly recommend this manifold with setups running a turbo comparable to my 35R. I cannot speak on smaller turbo setup as it might have too much volume for the air being moved.




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Last edited by AdamBOMB_STi; 12-28-2009 at 11:02 AM.
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Old 12-27-2009, 02:11 PM   #2
AdamBOMB_STi
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LA Sleeved 2.5,35R,Hydra

Default

This current setup has trapped 127+mph in the 1/4 mile on only 27psi. That includes my 18x9.5's, 265's, road race alignment, unchecked tire pressures, etc. I just pulled it off the trailer and ran it. I couldn't get a clean pass (missing gears and clutch issues), but I was able to muster an 11.7 completely missing 5th gear.

Missed 5th gear


Missed 2nd gear, but was able to get it back in to save it.

Last edited by AdamBOMB_STi; 12-27-2009 at 02:26 PM.
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Old 12-27-2009, 02:56 PM   #3
CatfaceType-R
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awesome stuff dude, again pm me if you go to sac drags anytime soon
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Old 12-28-2009, 01:34 AM   #4
aboothman
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Good stuff dude!! I would be curious to see some logs. What were your IDC at your highest WHP?
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Old 12-28-2009, 01:52 AM   #5
AdamBOMB_STi
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LA Sleeved 2.5,35R,Hydra

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by aboothman View Post
Good stuff dude!! I would be curious to see some logs. What were your IDC at your highest WHP?
I'll have to dig up some logs, but IIRC IDC's were maxed after 7k. That was on 50psi base fuel pressure. I went up to 60psi base to retune, but my WB02 took a dump.
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Old 12-28-2009, 08:28 AM   #6
WaXed
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Default

Great post
good info

I did the calculations, the stock manifold tuned length is for around 4000rpm...
so I am not surprised to see the higher rpm gain from the cosworth manifold, clearly the shorter runners are should work nicely at higher rpm and be better matched with higher rpm cams
The smooth (TGV-less) runners must help as well

looks like if you have cams and headwork the cosworth manifold is great add on
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Old 12-28-2009, 08:38 AM   #7
All4bSpinnin
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nice gains past 7k! glad to see you are spinning the motor past 7500
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Old 12-28-2009, 09:25 AM   #8
modaddict
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Thanks for the data.

I would have liked to see you do the same tuning to the stock manifold too (timing and AFR change) but regardless........good info to have.
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Old 12-28-2009, 10:45 AM   #9
Scooby921
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OP, when you have a chance please read this thread and then organize your data in the 1st post into the proper format. Thanks.

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1858764
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Old 12-28-2009, 11:03 AM   #10
AdamBOMB_STi
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LA Sleeved 2.5,35R,Hydra

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scooby921 View Post
OP, when you have a chance please read this thread and then organize your data in the 1st post into the proper format. Thanks.

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1858764
fixed
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Old 12-28-2009, 11:26 AM   #11
AdamBOMB_STi
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LA Sleeved 2.5,35R,Hydra

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by modaddict View Post
Thanks for the data.

I would have liked to see you do the same tuning to the stock manifold too (timing and AFR change) but regardless........good info to have.
The gains with the added timing and leaner AFR's with the Cossie mani were only around 5-10hp and 5ft/lbs. I mainly did it to smoothen out the overall powerband. The Cosworth manifold still showed big gains even when the timing fell off after 7k.
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Old 12-28-2009, 04:07 PM   #12
PPhilthy
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Nice results - I really like the Cosworth intake manifold and running one on my latest setup too...
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Old 12-28-2009, 04:36 PM   #13
waynoSTI
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You said it was perfect fitment? I know 2 different shops that put these on and said it was nowhere near correct fitment! they had lots of issues! Fitment, and leaking.....
Both shops are very well know in this community, can you please tell me if you had any issues? Perfect fitment seems very....
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Old 12-28-2009, 05:32 PM   #14
AdamBOMB_STi
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LA Sleeved 2.5,35R,Hydra

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by waynoSTI View Post
You said it was perfect fitment? I know 2 different shops that put these on and said it was nowhere near correct fitment! they had lots of issues! Fitment, and leaking.....
Both shops are very well know in this community, can you please tell me if you had any issues? Perfect fitment seems very....
It fits perfect for me. I have no boost leaks. It was a simple remove old and install the new.

What fitment issue specifically were the other shops experiencing?
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Old 12-28-2009, 08:24 PM   #15
AdamBOMB_STi
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LA Sleeved 2.5,35R,Hydra

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WaXed View Post
Great post
good info

I did the calculations, the stock manifold tuned length is for around 4000rpm...
so I am not surprised to see the higher rpm gain from the cosworth manifold, clearly the shorter runners are should work nicely at higher rpm and be better matched with higher rpm cams
The smooth (TGV-less) runners must help as well

looks like if you have cams and headwork the cosworth manifold is great add on
thanks! mind I ask how you went about calculating the flow of the manifolds? sounds very interesting!

Quote:
Originally Posted by All4bSpinnin View Post
nice gains past 7k! glad to see you are spinning the motor past 7500
thanks, the motor has been taking 8k redline's pretty well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by modaddict View Post
Thanks for the data.

I would have liked to see you do the same tuning to the stock manifold too (timing and AFR change) but regardless........good info to have.
no problem, hopefully I can get back to the strip for some clean and quicker runs.

I'll also be rebuilding the motor this year and fully PnP the heads and possibly go with bigger cams. I tried to go a bit leaner and with even more timing and the results were minimal. With the 35R and all my other mods I think I reached the flow limit of the stock ports.

Last edited by AdamBOMB_STi; 12-28-2009 at 08:35 PM.
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Old 12-28-2009, 10:48 PM   #16
kenlee
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Do you have closer pictures of the i/c piping going through the zerosports bumper? I have the same bumper, but I'm wary of cutting it for a fmic.
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Old 12-29-2009, 01:25 AM   #17
AdamBOMB_STi
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The APS piping doesn't hit the bumper at all. I just had to cut the opening for the i/c core.
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Old 12-29-2009, 02:37 AM   #18
bmxhotsauce
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adam your car is sick man but why so low 1/4 times 127 is good for high10's low 11's i believe
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Old 12-29-2009, 02:41 AM   #19
AdamBOMB_STi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmxhotsauce View Post
adam your car is sick man but why so low 1/4 times 127 is good for high10's low 11's i believe
did you read the captions above the pictures? lol
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Old 12-29-2009, 09:00 AM   #20
WaXed
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I have the formula auto calculating in a spreadsheet
I did it a few years ago when I was researching header design
my spreadsheet calculation is for the classic 4-1 header design (exhaust headers)

essentially pressure pulses also operate in an intake manifold just in the same manner as exhaust headers
the stock subaru intake manifold is classic 4-1 design

basically you are calculating the time it takes for a pressure pulse to travel up the runner and back down the next runner to the next port
the pressure pulse travels at the speed of sound
the runner length is actually the mean distance from the back of the valve up to the header pipe junction

depending on the length at a certain rpm it will match up with the timing when the intake valve opens and allow better cylinder filling
ideally you want this to be at peak power rpm when the volumetric efficiency is starting to drop off

I wouldn't regard the cosworth as classic 4-1 design but the runners are clearly much shorter and the plenum volume is much greater
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Old 12-29-2009, 09:11 AM   #21
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is that peakboost gt uppipe and downpipe made from the same peakboost company that fabs up all those turbo parts for hondas, nissans and evos?
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Old 12-29-2009, 10:10 AM   #22
blackacres
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waynoSTI View Post
You said it was perfect fitment? I know 2 different shops that put these on and said it was nowhere near correct fitment! they had lots of issues! Fitment, and leaking.....
Both shops are very well know in this community, can you please tell me if you had any issues? Perfect fitment seems very....
Hey AdamBOMB_STi,

Great info. you've posted up.

I am in the midst of a very similar build to yours.

My AR Fab sleeved, cnc ported, cam'd, etc. motor is now in, along with a UR GT40R twin scroll kit.

The shop and I are in a 'holding pattern' waiting for a 'plug and play' adapter for the ViPec ecu to connect to an 06 STI.

Originally I was going to install everything with the stock intake, obtain some numbers, then put the car away for the winter.

The plan was to install a Cosworth intake in the spring and do a stock vs Cosworth intake comparison. However, as we are 'on hold' and my motor was being assembled on the stand a couple of weeks ago, I elected to have the shop install the Cosy intake.

The shop (Innovative Tuning) who really know their stuff, reported to me that they had a lot of problems with leaks, mainly between the intake housing and the small manifold that bolts on top. They also reported that the fittings were tough to get leak tight.

I recall there were some clearance issues, but that may be a result of the GT40 turbo and intake. Plus the coolant tank will have to be moved.

Again, great thread, very informative, good luck with your ride.
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Old 12-29-2009, 03:54 PM   #23
AdamBOMB_STi
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LA Sleeved 2.5,35R,Hydra

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ownnij View Post
is that peakboost gt uppipe and downpipe made from the same peakboost company that fabs up all those turbo parts for hondas, nissans and evos?
Yup same company. They are the company that fab'd the Kingpin kits way back.

Quote:
Originally Posted by blackacres View Post
Hey AdamBOMB_STi,

Great info. you've posted up.

I am in the midst of a very similar build to yours.

My AR Fab sleeved, cnc ported, cam'd, etc. motor is now in, along with a UR GT40R twin scroll kit.

The shop and I are in a 'holding pattern' waiting for a 'plug and play' adapter for the ViPec ecu to connect to an 06 STI.

Originally I was going to install everything with the stock intake, obtain some numbers, then put the car away for the winter.

The plan was to install a Cosworth intake in the spring and do a stock vs Cosworth intake comparison. However, as we are 'on hold' and my motor was being assembled on the stand a couple of weeks ago, I elected to have the shop install the Cosy intake.

The shop (Innovative Tuning) who really know their stuff, reported to me that they had a lot of problems with leaks, mainly between the intake housing and the small manifold that bolts on top. They also reported that the fittings were tough to get leak tight.

I recall there were some clearance issues, but that may be a result of the GT40 turbo and intake. Plus the coolant tank will have to be moved.

Again, great thread, very informative, good luck with your ride.
Wow thats unfortunate, I've haven't had any leaking from the vacuum/boost manifold or the fittings. I can definitely see how it can leak though, it's just a huge o-ring that seats down.

Last edited by AdamBOMB_STi; 12-29-2009 at 04:21 PM.
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Old 12-29-2009, 08:35 PM   #24
D Money
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damn, good stuff Adam! So just with the manifold swap it picked up 22whp and 11wtq?
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Old 12-31-2009, 12:59 AM   #25
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
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