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Old 01-03-2010, 12:47 AM   #1
shade1569
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Default wrx swap sleeper or sleeper n/a with enigne work???

hey i have an 06 impreza outback sport and i have been debating on doing a wrx swap with a front mount to not have a big hood scoop or doing engine work on my n/a to keep it not boosted. i have been researching these threads and seeing what can be done to a non boosted car, and how much power can still be gained. but i also do love the idea of having a wrx engine with a less gaudy front mount so that its not obvious it is boosted. it is the two-tone green/ gray with windows an tailights blacked out, about to have black wheels, and to be painted all green. so it is kinda tunerish, but still doesn't have tuner body kit or anything like that, its just clean. so i dont know if the wrx would make it better, or stick to original engine? please help, any opinions would be helpful.
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Old 01-03-2010, 09:52 AM   #2
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budget and goals?

FMIC setup simply costs more.
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Old 01-03-2010, 10:32 AM   #3
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WRX swap and make it look stock!
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Old 01-03-2010, 11:15 AM   #4
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In my case, I wouldve had to purchase a new hood w/ scoop and have it painted; it would have cost a little more than having the wrx FMIC kit installed, so I went with the latter...

You could get used wrx hoods for cheap so I guess you wouldn't run into the same problem, but I do enjoy not having to deal with the issues of running TMIC or a hoodscoop (no heatsoak, not being lobed into the wrx/sti crowd, etc).
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Old 01-03-2010, 01:09 PM   #5
shade1569
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my budget at first would be around 2 or 3 grand, but i would be doing all the work myself and i work at advance auto, so i can order a lot of parts either way to build it up halfway decently. but ya either way i am even leaving on even all the impreza outback sport emblems, with nothing wrx on it at all, maybe just interior set. and i would want to stay away from hood scoop, so first glance it doesn't look turboed. thanks for the good replies!
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Old 01-03-2010, 01:50 PM   #6
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sti swap, low key fmic,
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Old 01-03-2010, 05:02 PM   #7
shade1569
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ya sti would be the ideal way, but not enough funds for that swap. trust me, would if i could. but i have kinda been thinking about doing a lot of n/a work to the motor, but eventually throwin on just a little boost- like 6 psi- for that extra little push. i was thinkin machine work, pulleys, flywheel, msd ignition, good wires n plugs, cold air, etc and then a small turbo, like a little 16g just for that little extra of top end push. any thoughts?? positive and negative both welcome just throwin out ideas. thanks again,
-shade
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Old 01-03-2010, 05:21 PM   #8
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what about cams?
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Old 01-03-2010, 07:27 PM   #9
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The AVO turbo kit runs 6psi and adds about 85hp. Costs about $3000, which is ur budget. U can throw one together ur own kit for cheaper probably. U can also look into cams and head work, but won't get as much power. People put scoops on N/A's and tmic's have better spool rates than fmic's. It is ur choice. Good luck.
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Old 01-03-2010, 07:32 PM   #10
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Be wary of running a turbo on a stock NA block; it won't last as long relatively speaking to the life expectancy of an NA engine.
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Old 01-03-2010, 08:27 PM   #11
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Raptor supercharger is very stealthy, installs in a couple hours, and you can return to stock and sell the kit if you get rid of the car.
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Old 01-03-2010, 11:51 PM   #12
shade1569
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does anyone have any good suggestions for where to send cams?? thanks again, and iv e read that the stock blocks are capable of holding 8 or so psi, but i was going to be safe with 5 or 6, any other knowledge what they can hold? -Shade
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Old 01-04-2010, 11:22 AM   #13
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delta.
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Old 01-04-2010, 12:10 PM   #14
chazly413
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shade1569 View Post
does anyone have any good suggestions for where to send cams?? thanks again, and iv e read that the stock blocks are capable of holding 8 or so psi, but i was going to be safe with 5 or 6, any other knowledge what they can hold? -Shade
It's not a question of what they can hold but how long it takes before they go pop, which is completely variable and in no way predictable.
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Old 01-04-2010, 01:18 PM   #15
shade1569
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ya i guess that true. so if i did cams, ignition, pulleys, flywheel, some machine work, and a really good tuning software, would i be able to gain a major noticable difference? cuz i do want something original that nobody else has. and does anybody have any experience with a good tuning software that i can map out everything? thanks, -shade
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Old 01-04-2010, 02:40 PM   #16
chazly413
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Oh yeah, you can get great power with cams, but cams are a trade off upgrade. You'll gain top end but lose low end.
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Old 01-04-2010, 08:17 PM   #17
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Another option is supercharge it, with a non-intercooler kit, no need for a scoop. They won't know whats coming, sleeper. But you will need deep pockets.
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Old 01-04-2010, 08:43 PM   #18
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Old 01-04-2010, 08:45 PM   #19
chazly413
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If you're gonna turbo.. do it right and swap.
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Old 01-04-2010, 09:50 PM   #20
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Turbo on N/A with 6psi and a good tune will be fine.
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Old 01-04-2010, 09:59 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shade1569 View Post
hey i have an 06 impreza outback sport and i have been debating on doing a wrx swap with a front mount to not have a big hood scoop or doing engine work on my n/a to keep it not boosted. i have been researching these threads and seeing what can be done to a non boosted car, and how much power can still be gained. but i also do love the idea of having a wrx engine with a less gaudy front mount so that its not obvious it is boosted. it is the two-tone green/ gray with windows an tailights blacked out, about to have black wheels, and to be painted all green. so it is kinda tunerish, but still doesn't have tuner body kit or anything like that, its just clean. so i dont know if the wrx would make it better, or stick to original engine? please help, any opinions would be helpful.
If you want alot more power, swap. Otherwise build N/A.

Not that it matters now though as your thread will soon be yet another endless debate as to whether the N/A block can handle boost. If you are even remotely considering the AVO kit, stop, do alot of research, take out a wad of cash from your wallet, and build the motor to support it.
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Old 01-05-2010, 12:00 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PA-Outback2000 View Post
Turbo on N/A with 6psi and a good tune will be fine.
Says the guy without a turbo kit. It's been documented so many times that it is only a matter of time before the motor will go. Why do you always spread mis information throughout these forums?
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Old 01-05-2010, 12:46 AM   #23
VIsubi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KaptainKandy View Post
If you want alot more power, swap. Otherwise build N/A.

Not that it matters now though as your thread will soon be yet another endless debate as to whether the N/A block can handle boost. If you are even remotely considering the AVO kit, stop, do alot of research, take out a wad of cash from your wallet, and build the motor to support it.
here I come lol whats a wad of cash 20 grand is a wad of cash..either raptor or avo(not out yet for either) will be fine with how they will be running it upgraded injectors,fuel pump etc that come with the kits. Now if you want a mild 2000 grind cam in a port and polished head with angle job that will yeild you very colse to wrx power in (in stock form) but if you want to do it and don't really enjoy wrenching take it to aswap shop pay them and forget about the rest...if your like me then I'll be getting either kit when it comes out first dibs on my money..run the boost as they say to then order a teckworks build RS block basically balanced and forged pistons and bearings heavy duty sti rings for 3300 bucks after that run 16psi all day every day.
Right now my 06 2.5i has lw crank pulley, injen CAI, Accessport(with agressive throttle mod, rallitek shortshifter, megan racing track coilovers,whilte line struts and end links, hks high power catback..the car is very fun to drive and feels nothing like stock and power gets to the ground with the coilovers no forward or back weight shifting. Its up too you the skys the limit just realize if you don't like the hassle of working on motors or cars or bikes(got me gixxer too) then have a shop swap and enjoy it like that.. but you'll get use too it and then want more...
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Old 01-05-2010, 05:53 AM   #24
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The only way to make a NA a sleeper is to turn it into a race engine. However, the 1.5k idle and lumpy sound might give something away.

Otherwise turbo it if you want to make serious power. Swap is the most cost effective. With your NA, you'd have to do a full internal rebuild to support forced induction because the stock parts will wear very fast and break in a short time frame. Our NA engines are built "just strong enough." Swap in a turbo engine and save yourself a lot of hassle.

If you happen to have $5k to $10k burning a hole in your pocket, you could build up a race spec NA engine that could quite readily put out upwards of 250whp plus if built right and allowed to rev high enough. However, you're pretty much modifying or replacing about every part on the engine to do so. It takes a lot of work to make an engine originally geared for low to midrange torque to make the torque way up top instead and survive it. You'll still only see 140-150 lb-ft on the dyno like a lightly modified NA does already, but it'll be up at 6, 7, 8k rpm instead instead of 3, 4, 5k rpm. It'll most likely take race fuel or at least E85 to let you get enough compression and timing to get the torque high enough to actually make 300hp at the crank. On pump gas, 250hp at the crank is realistic for a high revving design unless you intend to rev the hell out of it. Drivetrain gearing becomes an issue too once you change the power band around.

The short of it is forced induction is a much easier way to make big power and simple turbo swapping puts the power where you want it. This isn't to say a high revving NA design wouldn't be fun. It's simply not cost effective or practical versus FI. It's the sort of design you do as an engineering experiment and when you actually have a big wad of cash you don't know what to do with.
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Old 01-05-2010, 11:23 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chazly413 View Post
Oh yeah, you can get great power with cams, but cams are a trade off upgrade. You'll gain top end but lose low end.
Not true at all. Maybe a full blown race cam, but a street cam with the right bolt ons and a tune will see gains EVERYWHERE.
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