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Old 01-05-2010, 07:09 AM   #1
Bad Noodle
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Default Let's talk hybrid economy / performance tuning

So I thought, why not make a hybrid economy / performance map where below 70% throttle you're driving a 2.5i and above 70% the car's a sti.

So how would you go about setting that up safely?

Obviously zero out WGDCs up to 70% to stay out of boost
what about fueling?
timing?
transition between the two?

I haven't done a economy map so this is all new to me.
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Old 01-05-2010, 08:29 AM   #2
Bad Noodle
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As far as boost goes. I made a preliminary boost and WGDC map that seems to be working well.

I kept my regular boost targets, but set all WGDCs to 0 below 70.
I have the feeling that if I set my target boost map to -9 at less than 70%, negative TDCs would build up. This way TDC stays at 0 until I mash the throttle
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Old 01-05-2010, 06:09 PM   #3
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bump for ideas
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Old 01-05-2010, 07:22 PM   #4
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even at 0% wastegate duty, you still make whatever boost your spring is pressure is. so factory td04 will be like 8lbs for example. But, i like that your considering making this map


I think you have to play with open/closed loop fueling. try to keep the car in closed loop and leaner while cruising. just an idea i guess, but this can create very hot cylinder temps and knock if your car hits decent boost.
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Old 01-05-2010, 08:41 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bad Noodle View Post
So I thought, why not make a hybrid economy / performance map where below 70% throttle you're driving a 2.5i and above 70% the car's a sti.

So how would you go about setting that up safely?

Obviously zero out WGDCs up to 70% to stay out of boost
what about fueling?
timing?
transition between the two?

I haven't done a economy map so this is all new to me.

Here is what I would do.

0 wgdc up to 65% or so.
Change your Target CL burn to about 15.2 not a huge change but should squeeze a mpg out.
Timing is going to be tricky with out a dyno to make sure your being efficient.
Make sure you put your CL OL Delays back in.
Tweak Tip in.



I was able to get our outback XT from 20 observed to 22 observed and it still runs 16lbs up top.
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Old 12-11-2011, 10:35 AM   #6
ENY169
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has anyone else tried tweaking their map to save gas under normal driving??

i've zero'd target boost and wgdc high up to 49% throttle, changed cl target to 15, increased timing under 1.0load up to 3800rpms (no knock)

i've also decreased warm up enrichment
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Old 12-12-2011, 04:56 PM   #7
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^ thats pretty much all you can do.

1 more thing is to reduce or 0 out the CL fueling load compensation....its rpm vs load with changes to the closed loop AFR in the middle. This table causes the target AFR to be more like 14.2 when cruising instead of 14.7
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Old 12-20-2011, 09:39 PM   #8
ENY169
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already did that to the CL fuel load comp. i recently up'd the CL target to 16.5 and its hitting it along with the stock 02 cl ol delays. but i noticed in 3rd gear cruising, it would feel like its hesitating a tiny bit even with the pedal steady??

so i changed the delays to match what cobb had in their map. i've yet to drive enough to feel if drivability is better

i dont quite understand the delay counter yet and how to interpret
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Old 12-21-2011, 02:15 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phatron
^ thats pretty much all you can do.

1 more thing is to reduce or 0 out the CL fueling load compensation....its rpm vs load with changes to the closed loop AFR in the middle. This table causes the target AFR to be more like 14.2 when cruising instead of 14.7
+1. Did this about a month ago. Made a world of difference.
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Old 12-22-2011, 01:58 AM   #10
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If you want fuel economy, and you're making any boost at all, you're doing something wrong. Wastegate duty only really comes into play about 8-10psi or whatever your wastegate spring provides on its own, and if you're making that much boost then you've already decided that fuel economy isn't important at that moment.

Fuel economy is more about right-foot discipline than tuning. My economy tune is my performance tune, and vice-versa. The left side of the timing and fueling tables (low load, vacuum) has the economy tune, and the right side (high load, boost) has the performance tune, and switch between them by adjusting the throttle pedal angle.

If you want to make it easier to stay out of boost, rescale the DBW tables to make the throttle less sensitive at low pedal angles, and then ramp up steeply so you can still go WOT when you feel like it.
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Old 12-22-2011, 04:14 PM   #11
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even with right foot discipline, these cars are so crappy on gas. 14.7 afr under cruise is not necessary. my old 2000 audi a4 1.8 turbo quattro was a world of difference as far as fuel consumption goes. it also had more torque to help in city driving while consuming less fuel which really confuses me. sure it was a 1.8 I4 with a small turbo but it shouldnt be that big of difference between the a4 and wrx fuel consumption. i was so upset when an old lady t boned it and wrote it off

these cars just arent made with mpg in mind
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Old 12-22-2011, 05:28 PM   #12
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My car hates city driving. I only get 200-220 miles per tank....whereas i can get 350-375 to a tank with freeway only driving.
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Old 12-22-2011, 05:45 PM   #13
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I can get just over 400 per tank on mine if I stay at or below 65mph on the highway.
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Old 12-22-2011, 06:00 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ENY169 View Post
already did that to the CL fuel load comp. i recently up'd the CL target to 16.5 and its hitting it along with the stock 02 cl ol delays. but i noticed in 3rd gear cruising, it would feel like its hesitating a tiny bit even with the pedal steady??

so i changed the delays to match what cobb had in their map. i've yet to drive enough to feel if drivability is better

i dont quite understand the delay counter yet and how to interpret
I suggest proceding slowly with changing the CL target. I believe the value in the rom is actually 14.3-14.4 and it leans/richens based on the other compensations. so setting the target to 16.5 you could be leaning to 17.xx in closed loop with the other comps. i changed mine to 14.9 before and i was leaning out to 15.7 alot of the time. And its probably best not to mess with that without an EGT gauge.

The counter is in computer cycles or something like that. Setting the OL/CL time delay to a value of 5-10 keeps you in CL for cruising and small throttle changes, but switches you over instantly when you romp.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GravyRobber View Post
I can get just over 400 per tank on mine if I stay at or below 65mph on the highway.
i dont have the patience for that. I set my cruise at 85-90mph.
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Old 12-22-2011, 06:10 PM   #15
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Lol, its definitely boring, but there is some satisfaction in rarely having to pass people (less stressful than driving fast) and you never have to worry about being pulled over.
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Old 12-22-2011, 06:13 PM   #16
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I only speed on long trips like 450 miles to phoenix. The speed limit is 75 in AZ so 85 doesnt get you pulled over. I even passed a cop doing 90 last week and he didnt pull me over. He might have been sleeping though.
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Old 12-24-2011, 10:36 AM   #17
ENY169
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thx for the tip phatron, i've been logging to make sure im not knocking and so far so good. it is hesitating a bit during acceleration in 2nd gear from 2-3k rpms so im gonna turn it down to 16:1 and see if it gets rid it. i've also set the cl rich/lean limit to 15.9/16.1 , turned down the cl coolant temp comp and zero'd cl load comp
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Old 04-29-2012, 09:30 PM   #18
WhiteBgeye02
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to bring this back to life I am in the process of doing the same thing. what are people doing as far as timing around 2500-3200 rpms and under 1.0 load. on std scaling not half maf'ed or anything.

also how much affect does spray pattern seem to have on mpgs? as well as injector size? I think mine might be a bit large for my application.
vehicle is a ej207 with 850 cc injectors. vf37TS setup. matched to a 5mt.
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