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Old 01-06-2010, 08:23 PM   #1
D72
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Default 2009 WRX beats 08 STI

by more than 2 seconds in the Car and Driver Lightning Lap times at Virginia International Raceway.

So now they've shown the 09-10 WRX is just as fast (and in some cases a tick faster) than the STI in acceleration, and now it outhandles it on some tracks too.

Hmm
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Old 01-06-2010, 09:58 PM   #2
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Not to come across as a fanboy (I own both cars) but I seriously think something was wrong with their STI in the 2008 Lightning Lap event. Maybe an abused journalist unit.

A link for those looking for the article:
http://www.caranddriver.com/features...p_2009-feature

...and holy crap ZR1. That thing is INSANE.
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Old 01-06-2010, 10:38 PM   #3
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That magazine is full of bs. There are no way those times are legit. Those drivers must not know how to drive properly
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Old 01-06-2010, 11:02 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k04sti View Post
That magazine is full of bs. There are no way those times are legit. Those drivers must not know how to drive properly
Where the hell have you been??

u blow up ur chit or something
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Old 01-07-2010, 12:08 AM   #5
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haha I don't really care how legit the numbers are as long as it makes subaru up the power on the STI!
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Old 01-07-2010, 02:00 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by Wanarex View Post
haha I don't really care how legit the numbers are as long as it makes subaru up the power on the STI!
Or the bean counters drop the STi altogether, and make it an appearance only package, as the standard WRX is "good enough..."

The first duty is always to the shareholders and maximizing profits. Enthusiasts come close to last in terms of priority.
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Old 01-07-2010, 02:46 AM   #7
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Some of the 'Car and Driver' numbers just don't make sense. 350Z to the 370 only a 0.5 sec improvement? EVO MR 5.7 seconds faster than the STI? RX8 is the same as the STI? Lotus Elise SC the same as the WRX? I have driven these cars and would not expect results like that? Gee the Elise SC is basically a track car with a listed 4.4sec 0-60 time. Am I missing something here?

Last edited by blackthing2; 01-07-2010 at 03:18 AM.
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Old 01-07-2010, 03:43 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by STi Mikey View Post
Where the hell have you been??

u blow up ur chit or something
Haha. nah I've been around, but I've been having problems with my injector. I'm in the process of getting that fixed and am saving up for my new setup. Going PT6262 and a built block =D.

Sorry for OT
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Old 01-07-2010, 10:14 AM   #9
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C&D doesn't use one driver for all the cars. Their data isn't controlled. I stopped caring about their magazine when they did an all-out performance comparison between two cars and the "winning" car didn't win any of the performance tests.
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Old 01-07-2010, 10:20 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by Scooby921 View Post
C&D doesn't use one driver for all the cars. Their data isn't controlled. I stopped caring about their magazine when they did an all-out performance comparison between two cars and the "winning" car didn't win any of the performance tests.
You wouldn't happen to be speaking about the gto vs mustang article would you?
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Old 01-07-2010, 10:27 AM   #11
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I'm glad this thread came back .
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Old 01-07-2010, 10:29 AM   #12
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Posted this in the General thread, so why not here?

I think it's pretty clear something was amiss with either the '08 STI C&D tested, or the driver. The fact that the '09 WRX posted better times proves it. It's pretty easy to come to this conclusion if you look at some of the evidence.

When they tested the STI, they spoke of lots of understeer.

Quote:
The racetrack result is lifeboat body roll, mulish understeer, reluctant transient response, and vague steering feel.
This time around they noted how the WRX needed to be "manhandled"

Quote:
Most four-wheel-drive cars should come with the following instructions: “Divebomb the corner under braking, turn hard, and mash the gas.” The WRX is no different. Finding the fast line took more creativity than with other cars in this class, and the word “manhandle” turned up a number of times in the logbook notes.
I have a feeling they didn't "manhandle" the STI. Most people here probably saw this German video of the '08 STI vs the S3:


The tester basically says, if you drive the STI like a normal car, it's boring with lots of understeer. but if you drive aggressively, it's a whole new animal.

Tires also make a huge difference. If I recall, the stock Dunlops need lots of heat in them to perform at their peak. The LL tests have one driver go out for 3 hot laps in a few cars. Doesn't sound like they had much time to heat the tires up or become acclimated with each car..

Finally, the JDM STI is not much different than ours. Sure, it has a 2L engine, put power levels are similar. Also, the JDM version is a bit lighter. However, it routinely beats many cars in the Best Motoring Videos.

Anyway, I could care less which car is faster, handles better, etc. the STI has been my affordable dream car and now I have one. I'm happy and look forward to exploring it's limits during my ownership.
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Old 01-07-2010, 10:36 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by DirtyBanana View Post
You wouldn't happen to be speaking about the gto vs mustang article would you?
Nope. Specifically referring to the E46 M3 vs C5 Z06 from years ago. Z06 won all but one performance test, and the M3 won the comparison because it has more seats. And I just remembered the C6 Z06 vs. F430 comparison in which the Z06 won every performance test and the F430 won the comparison because it has a nicer interior.
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Old 01-07-2010, 10:43 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Scooby921 View Post
Nope. Specifically referring to the E46 M3 vs C5 Z06 from years ago. Z06 won all but one performance test, and the M3 won the comparison because it has more seats. And I just remembered the C6 Z06 vs. F430 comparison in which the Z06 won every performance test and the F430 won the comparison because it has a nicer interior.
Funny, I didn't know they picked winners solely based on performance numbers.

Seeing as they sell many more M3s than Z06's, I'd say you're in the minority. And I'm sure the only thing the M3 had over the Z06 was rear seats.

The 430 sure as **** didn't win only because of its interior. You're insane. Hell, go drive a 360 and tell me it doesn't offer something MUCH more in the line of driving experience over a Z06. It's not even close.

Corvette lover here...but you're points are completely ridiculous.


The Z06 should win those tests simply because it offers exceptional performance/$$$?

Make a poll, see how many people would rather have a 430 or M3 in their driveway over a Z06.
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Old 01-07-2010, 10:44 AM   #15
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Screw magazine racing... I am waiting for this spring when owners of both cars turn in more track times. I'd especially like to see a day where a set number of drivers each drove the STi and WRX back to back on the same track. Then these silly threads can die and we can each enjoy our respective cars
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Old 01-07-2010, 10:46 AM   #16
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like said before there are numerous uncommon factors
1. tires put all cars on the same tire
2 driver the same driver must be used for every car
3. from what I heard is the two time were completely different events- so things like track temp. air temp humidity is a huge factor in tme differences.
So i would take this coparision with a grain of salt.
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Old 01-07-2010, 10:50 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by 04trailsti View Post
like said before there are numerous uncommon factors
1. tires put all cars on the same tire
-What about shocks? They are all wear items...why draw the line at just tires? It's a designed-for element of the car. Hence, they don't get changed. What rationale do you have for changing tires, but not these other components?

2 driver the same driver must be used for every car
- It is. Actually, a group of drivers rotate through ALL the cars. Each of say 3 drivers drives them all. Best lap counts.

3. from what I heard is the two time were completely different events- so things like track temp. air temp humidity is a huge factor in tme differences.
-In this case, it didn't. The M3 was retested and ran within .2 seconds of the 08 time. Same for the MS3. The track conditions were not noticably different.
So i would take this coparision with a grain of salt.
- The word is comparison
Responded
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Old 01-07-2010, 10:57 AM   #18
merlot
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Originally Posted by SoapBox View Post
Responded
Your wrong about each driver driving all cars. Here's a description of what they do from the very first Lighting Lap in 2006:

Quote:
Each man was assigned to drive four or five cars. The driver cycled through the cars, running a session of three to five laps in each. Since there are testing variables that can skew data — a car will run faster when it's 70 degrees outside, for example, than when it's 90 — the drivers cycled through the cars a second time. The lap times on page 70 are the best each car produced that day.
C&D is junk. They contradict themselves and give "subjective" wins to cars which routinely get beat in performance. I let my subscription run out and never plan to buy the rag again.
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Old 01-07-2010, 11:42 AM   #19
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God I am so sick of these 0-60 times/arguments. Look, the only thing that matters is how well **YOU** drive and shift the car. . . If you can't crack 6 seconds because you can't shift, what does matter when someone else hits 60 in 5.5s?
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Old 01-07-2010, 12:11 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by merlot View Post
They contradict themselves and give "subjective" wins to cars which routinely get beat in performance. I let my subscription run out and never plan to buy the rag again.
Name one car magazine that awards "wins" to strictly the best performing car. Most of the love of cars is in the subjective feeling they give you. Welcome to reality.

I'll wait....
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Old 01-07-2010, 12:14 PM   #21
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this is just straight line performance.. but does go to show that the sti has somewhat lost focus.. its like they beefed up the wrx while the sti has stayed the same.. maybe this will have soa thinking a bit.
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Old 01-07-2010, 12:14 PM   #22
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Name one car magazine that awards "wins" to strictly the best performing car. Most of the love of cars is in the subjective feeling they give you. Welcome to reality.
I remember the Ford GT was ranked second in a comparo because they couldn't fit two golf bags in the boot and when you closed the doors it sounded "tinny."
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Old 01-07-2010, 12:15 PM   #23
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Funny, I didn't know they picked winners solely based on performance numbers.

Seeing as they sell many more M3s than Z06's, I'd say you're in the minority. And I'm sure the only thing the M3 had over the Z06 was rear seats.

The 430 sure as **** didn't win only because of its interior. You're insane. Hell, go drive a 360 and tell me it doesn't offer something MUCH more in the line of driving experience over a Z06. It's not even close.

Corvette lover here...but you're points are completely ridiculous.


The Z06 should win those tests simply because it offers exceptional performance/$$$?

Make a poll, see how many people would rather have a 430 or M3 in their driveway over a Z06.
Did you read either article? Did you know that both were titled as "performance" comparisons? Would you use metrics outside of performance to compare performance? What if I compare the new ZR1 and the Veyron and say the ZR1 wins because there is a clear spot in the hood to show off the engine. Its asinine and not related to performance in any way. Had the articles been about a general ride and drive comparison I'd have no complaint. I'm upset that the comparison was about the performance of the cars and they used some additional metric to make one car better than the other.


Look at this current lightning lap...the ONLY car they specifically note as having all-season tires is the GT-R. They were obviously upset with how it placed in the ranking and had to give it some sort of excuse for not being the best. C&D plays favorites in every test they run. I don't care for it.
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Old 01-07-2010, 12:17 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by REX8 View Post
Name one car magazine that awards "wins" to strictly the best performing car. Most of the love of cars is in the subjective feeling they give you. Welcome to reality.

I'll wait....
We tangled about C&D before (I was MSD previously); not going down that road again after proving my point.
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Old 01-07-2010, 12:21 PM   #25
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I remember the Ford GT was ranked second in a comparo because they couldn't fit two golf bags in the boot and when you closed the doors it sounded "tinny."
Link?

Not this one...as surely, if you read it, the 3rd place was not down to golf bags.

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...ford_gt_page_5

or this one (it wins)

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...ford_gt_page_4

Funny, can't find any other C&D comparos on it.
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