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Old 11-07-2012, 10:53 AM   #1751
C-grunt
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My suggestion would be to go to a store with a big selection and handle as many as possible. See which ones feel good in your hand and if you can go to one of the ranges that rent handguns and shoot the ones you like.

All the big name brands will serve you well. Glock, Springfield, HK, FN, Beretta, S&W, Ruger, Sig Sauer, CZ. Im not a fan of Taurus but many people are happy with theirs.

Once you get the gun make sure you get some GOOD training from a reputable instructor. Handguns are used often for self defense because they are easy to carry, not because they are good at it. Shooting a handgun under stress is hard and they do little damage when compared to rifles and shotguns. In actual shooting all of the service calibers (9mm, 357, 40, 45) pretty much work the same so dont worry about which one you get.

Also looking where you live I would seriously consider buying a shotgun or a rifle soon for home defense. You live smack dab in the middle of one of the most violent parts of Phoenix.
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Old 11-07-2012, 01:23 PM   #1752
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IIRC, at 18 you can get rifles and shotguns, 21 for handguns. I'd go shotty for home defense to reduce risk of over-penetration. You may consider getting an AR lower while you can though. Obama has spoken of reinstating the AWB.
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Old 11-07-2012, 01:54 PM   #1753
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C-Grunt. how much does an average shotgun go for? always how can i find parameters of law that wont give siding to a perpetrator? i dont want to end up shootin someone and having myself go to jail for some low life ****head
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Old 11-07-2012, 01:56 PM   #1754
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shemoves
IIRC, at 18 you can get rifles and shotguns, 21 for handguns. I'd go shotty for home defense to reduce risk of over-penetration. You may consider getting an AR lower while you can though. Obama has spoken of reinstating the AWB.
sorry what is AWB? any resources where to get more info other then random google search? AR? assualt rifle?
Is there certain regulations or precautions i need? i have a 2yr old and one on the way. so a safe im guessing?
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Old 11-07-2012, 02:04 PM   #1755
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I dont think theres regulations requiring a safe but i would recomend it especially with a curious two year old. Go get a remington 870 HD they are like 350 at walmart plus they have a 30 dollar rebate. Nice for crowd control
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Old 11-07-2012, 02:06 PM   #1756
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ill go check it out. want to keep my optiond ooen before i decide to buy
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Old 11-07-2012, 03:16 PM   #1757
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AWB=assault weapon ban? does that include the handguns he spoke about banning also? A friend of mine just bought a new ruger sr9, in the 2nd and third clip it jammed on him. While firing remingtons. Could this be a break in issue or just getting your moneys worth? I havent had one issue with my glock 21c after about 600 rounds so far. Today, I picked up a mosin 91/30, talk about a big bang for your buck.
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Old 11-07-2012, 03:32 PM   #1758
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We have Castle Law here in Az. If someone comes into your house and you fear for your life you can use lethal force.

As far as shotguns go I would look at the Remington 870s and the Mossberg 500 or 590s. They start around 300s and go up from there.
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Old 11-07-2012, 03:52 PM   #1759
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You are welcome to try out my xd9 if you want.

We go shoot every weekend.


I thought you had to be 21 to buy but 18 to have a hand gun.
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Old 11-07-2012, 04:30 PM   #1760
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+1 on the Mossberg 500. Keep in mind that Black Friday is coming up quick. I got mine at Big 5 for around $240 a few years back. Plus, they are a lot like Subarus. Plenty of direct swaps like barrels, shrouds, stocks, handguards, etc... if you are into that sort of thing.
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Old 11-07-2012, 06:26 PM   #1761
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Thanks for all the info guys and Twinscroll, im up for trying it out. It would be good to gather as much info and pointers from you all.
Is buying a handgun like buying a car or used anything "may be subject to break"?
Also any other bans i should be aware of? Limit to firearms i can own?
also 9mm and up what exactly does this do? more power?.. bigger bullets?..
Also if parts are interchangeable sounds like something i would be into just knowing what fits.
Sorry for the noob questions.
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Old 11-07-2012, 06:44 PM   #1762
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anything can break...buy from a known company with a good warranty and you'll be fine. no limits on your standard stuff...you can literally own an arsenal-though there may be restrictions on how many you can buy at once, not sure. typically, bigger bullet=more liklihood of hitting something critical. that said, its not as easy to be as accurate as the movies/video games would lend us to believe-and recoil plays a big role here.
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Old 11-07-2012, 06:51 PM   #1763
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well said.

Yeah ive noticed that is major.
Squeeze dont pull right?
Ok so obviously higher anything bigger then 9mm is going to have more recoil.
Cool does anyone know of a firing shop that would let me in and for a fee experience firing a variety of handguns and shotguns?
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Old 11-07-2012, 10:30 PM   #1764
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 03.dub.r.x
well said.

Yeah ive noticed that is major.
Squeeze dont pull right?
Ok so obviously higher anything bigger then 9mm is going to have more recoil.
Cool does anyone know of a firing shop that would let me in and for a fee experience firing a variety of handguns and shotguns?
If you live in the phoenix area there is Scottsdale gun club or I'm pretty sure caswell's in Mesa does rentals. If you want to graduate to a larger caliber you could buy a glock 40 and get a 9mm barrel and mag and switch it out till you feel comfortable with the 40 round. A barrel is around $90. Then u can shoot 9mm at the range and use 40 for home defense. Just know that a 40 barrel won't fit in a 9mm frame.
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Old 11-08-2012, 01:00 AM   #1765
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 03.dub.r.x View Post
well said.
Ok so obviously higher anything bigger then 9mm is going to have more recoil.
Yes, and anything lower will typically have less. If you go too low, though, nothing short of a proper head-shot is going to do much (very hard to do with sweaty, shaking hands, and someone screaming/running at you...all after having been woken up about 30 seconds ago from a dead sleep at 2:30am). Generally speaking, the 9mm has one of the best balances between managability, lethality, and ammo cost (allowing those on a budget to practice more). It can also hold more ammo in a single mag as compared with a similar .40 or .45.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 03.dub.r.x View Post
well said.
Cool does anyone know of a firing shop that would let me in and for a fee experience firing a variety of handguns and shotguns?
Actually, I would call Scottsdale Gun Club. They may have a class that includes everything you are looking for from training to trying things out on the range. You can definitely do both there seperately though. If there is any place that would be a 'one-stop-shop,' it'd be SGC. And hey, maybe you can rent one of their guns with the happy switch while you are there You might have to be 21 though--not sure.

Something to look at--get an idea of how much you will be spending over the next year on the gun, training, and going to the range. Then figure out if getting a membership at SGC is worth it. It is expensive, but the discounts that come with it may offset the cost enough to make it worth it. Perhaps not...just something to look at before you spend much $ there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mhomewood View Post
If you want to graduate to a larger caliber you could buy a glock 40 and get a 9mm barrel and mag and switch it out till you feel comfortable with the 40 round. A barrel is around $90. Then u can shoot 9mm at the range and use 40 for home defense. Just know that a 40 barrel won't fit in a 9mm frame.
The purpose of the practice is to become proficient with what will be used under stress. The idea being to turn things that would otherwise require concious decisions (taking time and leaving more room for mistakes) into subconcious actions (you naturally do the right thing without thinking). Developing proper muscle memory and finding known, reliable-feeding ammo are among the goals. Also, while a reliable gun is a must, I think it is very valuable for a shooter to experience failures so he/she know what they feel like, and how to respond to them.

Last edited by shemoves; 11-08-2012 at 01:17 AM.
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Old 11-08-2012, 02:57 AM   #1766
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Alright so in the meantime ive decided to go out wth a few buddies take up some offers, tips, and pointers from you guys and wait for my 6 months to be up and buy a handgun. Appreciate all the feedback.
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Old 11-08-2012, 08:28 AM   #1767
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Ok gunsmith opinion time, shotguns, go mossberg 500/maverick 88 same gun sometimes you can get the maverick cheaper than the 500... second choice is the 870, the 870 have more moving parts ie more can go wrong... as for pistols, xd and glocks are the perfect first gun look at the 9mm or 45s dont go 40 they are to whippy and are not good for begginers...
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Old 11-08-2012, 11:20 AM   #1768
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Alright so in the meantime ive decided to go out wth a few buddies take up some offers, tips, and pointers from you guys and wait for my 6 months to be up and buy a handgun. Appreciate all the feedback.
Make sure your buds adhere strictly to the gun safety rules, and have fun
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Old 11-08-2012, 11:38 AM   #1769
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shotguns, go mossberg 500/maverick 88 same gun sometimes you can get the maverick cheaper than the 500...
Thanks, sti1911. I was curious about that. I'll refer back to Big 5, then. The Maverick 88 is on sale at Big 5 until the 12th for $199. I might just go pick another up at that price. Can't go wrong.
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Old 11-08-2012, 12:35 PM   #1770
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Thanks, sti1911. I was curious about that. I'll refer back to Big 5, then. The Maverick 88 is on sale at Big 5 until the 12th for $199. I might just go pick another up at that price. Can't go wrong.
A good shotgun is a fantastic home defense tool. I prefer a good AR15 but a good one cost about 5 times as much.

Buy some 00 or 000 buckshot, preferably the Federal load with "Flight Control". Those loads will keep all the buckshot on a man sized target to at least 25 yards. Some shotguns will pattern them onto target out to 50 yards.

Then buy several boxes of cheap birdshot and go practice. Practice loading and reloading. Also make sure you run that pump hard. You wont break the gun and if you practice man handling the gun you wont short stroke it under stress.

Also make sure you switch back to buckshot when you get home. Birdshot sucks for self defense. Ive talked to several people shot with birdshot at close range and it flat out is a horrible choice for self defense. Hell VP Dick Cheney shot his friend in the head at under 20 yards with birdshot and that guy is doing fine.

I would also just stick with 9mm when you get a handgun. All duty caliber ammunition are designed to pass FBI protocol and therefor pretty much do the same thing. All good hollowpoints expand to arounf .55-.70 of an inch and penetrate 12-16 inches in ballistic gel. Thats 9mm, 40 and 45. 9mm will be the cheapest to buy ammo for, have the least amount of recoil and hold the most rounds.

This will show you how handguns compare to shotguns and rifles.

9mm hollowpoint

12 guage buckshot

5.56 M855 (what the military uses in the M4/M16)
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Old 11-08-2012, 09:16 PM   #1771
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im noob when it comes to AR's and i have a grande to play with any recomendations? im leaning towards a dpms but not really sure being that most are made in the same plant. i have shot a dpms and a stag and between the two the dpms felt better for me.
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Old 11-08-2012, 09:45 PM   #1772
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im noob when it comes to AR's and i have a grande to play with any recomendations? im leaning towards a dpms but not really sure being that most are made in the same plant. i have shot a dpms and a stag and between the two the dpms felt better for me.
LoL

Get yourself to Walmart and get a S&W M&P, then spend the rest on 1000 rounds of ammo

If you really want a high end AR go LMT or LaRue.
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Old 11-08-2012, 09:48 PM   #1773
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Thanks, sti1911. I was curious about that. I'll refer back to Big 5, then. The Maverick 88 is on sale at Big 5 until the 12th for $199. I might just go pick another up at that price. Can't go wrong.
Also

Dont discount a used shotty, both mossy and remy are build like tanks, they go through hell and back and still run without fail

With police turn in, replace the mag spring and maybe the extractor and its brand new!
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Old 11-08-2012, 09:50 PM   #1774
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an option i will look into is it 5.56 and .223? i just know that sportsmans warehouse is doing sale with no tax right now and i saw a dpms for 850. can any one explain the difference between a gas piston set up and a gas block?
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Old 11-08-2012, 10:42 PM   #1775
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an option i will look into is it 5.56 and .223? i just know that sportsmans warehouse is doing sale with no tax right now and i saw a dpms for 850. can any one explain the difference between a gas piston set up and a gas block?
First of all the is no way in hell you should pay 850 for a DPMS unless its one of their stainless steel bull barrel hunting models. If you want a weekend plinker to shot crap in the desert the Smith and Wesson Sport is 650 bucks and a better rifle.

5.56 is the militarized version of the 223. There are slight differences which make the 5.56 operate at higher chamber pressures than a 223. its unsafe to fire a 5.56 in a 223 but its perfectly fine to shoot a 223 in a 5.56.

As far as the piston vs the direct gas impingement, Im a fan of the standard gas system. There are certain instances where a piston is beneficial in the AR15 and thats when you have a barrel under 14 inches, shoot full auto and have a suppressor. If you are doing all of those then a piston can be beneficial.

The whole piston thing stsrted because a bunch of POGs (Personel Other than Grunts) failed to clean and maintain their weapons overseas and when they jammed they blamed it on the gas system. Also there was the battle of Wanat where an Army unit was being overrun and had no air/artillery support. Their crew served weapons (machine guns) were destroyed and they started to use their rifles as machine guns and they jammed. Some people tried to blame this on the operating system of the rifle instead of seeing that it was a leadership failure. If you operate a weapon, just like any other machine, far outside its design parameters it will fail.

Another reason that I am not a fan of pistons is they are not standardized and they have their own bugs. Every company that makes a piston system uses a different design. So if you buy one and that design goes away due to company closure or advances, you have no place to get spare parts. If you had a standard DGI rifle you have literally dozens of places to buy parts.
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