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Old 01-14-2010, 02:02 AM   #1
poetic--playa
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Default Help analyze my times. stage II wrx.

I know for certain that one factor is my lack of skills at driving (shifting). However i'd like input on what you guys and gals think i could potentially run or what my car is capable of (if i was able to drive it faster).

completely stock (exception of l/c): best run of three

60' - 2.8s
1/8 - 9.8s
1/4 - 15.2s
trap - 89mph

three passes and i never broke 15's launching at 5.5k, slipping clutch.

stage II (l/c @4.5k, 3"dp, catless up, sti cb, opensource @ 20psi): best of two runs

60' - 2.17
330' - 5.98
1/8 - 9.14@81
1/4 - 14.3
trap - 99mph

two passes and trapped 98mph and 99mph running same times.

sea level.
i dont know how much harder i could launch, im trying to be safe, but all wheels are breaking loose at launch. shifting near redline ~6700.

am i near the limits of what the car can do? what do you think an experienced driver could run using my car?
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Old 01-14-2010, 03:06 AM   #2
rexblake
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60's are looking pretty low. Perhaps launch at a lower rpm and have less wheel spin. Also, may want to change tire pressure, might help you get more grip.
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Old 01-14-2010, 03:59 AM   #3
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the best 60' you'd probably ever get would be a 1.8.....

so that would yield you a 13.5.

if you could somehow pull of a 1.7 60' then a 13.3 is possible.

to know where to shift u need to graph out your power.
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Old 01-14-2010, 06:45 AM   #4
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your to fat,loose weight
just kidding,just really wanted to say that.
check for boost leaks
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Old 01-14-2010, 07:30 AM   #5
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get the 60's down and you'll see dramatic results. it's all about the launch in these cars at our power levels.
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Old 01-14-2010, 08:17 AM   #6
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I'm going to have to say the car has a bit more in it and you really just need to learn how to get out of the hole and shift faster. Also shifting at almost 7k is not helping your trap speed as that little turbo is out of its power band.

And are you sure it is tire spin you're getting and not clutch? I ask as unless you're running some truely crappy tires and/or some really cold track temps or maybe some poor track prep I can't see how you have so much spin. If it is the case I'd lower pressures to about 25psi or so. (I've cut high 1.7x 60fts with some all seasons on my tuned STI)

Also, with the stock TD04 building boost on the line should be pretty easy so I'd probably not use the launch control.

Are you flat foot shifting?
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Old 01-14-2010, 08:20 AM   #7
liljon350
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your doin' it wrong!
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Old 01-14-2010, 10:09 AM   #8
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Learning to drive would be formost, shift at 7k and launch between 5500 and 6k blipping the throttle, also, I'd put money on that sti cat back is slowing you down. My stage 2 non protuned (Cobb stage 2 base map) would run consistent 13.6-7s @ 99mph in the summer, and 13.2-5s @100-101 in the winter. My set up was cobb base map @ 17psi, aps catless uppipe and turboback, drop in filter and perrin turbo inlet. I'd consistently have mid 1.8 short times, so launching and my bet is still on your catback for making up your times. Mph is right there for a stage 2 wrx.

Practice practice

Trey
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Old 01-14-2010, 01:43 PM   #9
poetic--playa
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thanks for the input.
treystoy, i do plan on a new catback this summer, so hopefully that'll help some.
i also have a set of good summer tires ready to go on so i'll see how that works out.

launching is pretty dam hard, for me and the car. lol.
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Old 01-14-2010, 02:00 PM   #10
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The first time out in my 05 LGT, bone stock I cut better 60fts than that, and it was my first time drag racing a manual car. You can definitely do much better on the launch, that's whats killing your times right now.
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Old 01-14-2010, 06:16 PM   #11
liljon350
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you have to launch from 5500 on an up blip and slip the clutch out perfectly...it takes a lot of practice, and you will probably fry your clutch learning(i did, had to replace it.) there is a perfect way to do it when your ready...when i was stage 2 i was hitting consistent 1.8 60 ft's and my 1/4 mile was 13.5 when i hit the 1.8...a 1.9 60ft would yield me a bad 1/4 mile( high 13's, low 14's)...you just need to practice
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Old 01-14-2010, 07:12 PM   #12
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ya, its ur launch dude. I was hitting 15.5 in my 00RS with a header, catback and CAI, launching btw 4 4.5, still have taken my 05 stage 2 wrx, eager.....
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Old 01-15-2010, 12:34 AM   #13
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I disagree with people's method for determining shift points, completely. For one thing, I doubt you have any power past 5700 that's worth using, and you surely aren't getting "on top of the gear" by using the extra 1000 rpm. In fact you are over-running the prime band. Steve.804 seems to be the only person so far to notice this, and I agree completely. A friend of mine conveyed a story of how he missed 3rd and hit 5th instead, he hit the same time he did running it too high all the times before. There is a complex (though not overly complicated) method for determining your shift points, and you have to take the wheel torque into consideration. Not WTQ as defined by a dyno, but actual torque at the wheel for a given rpm. You then have to decide how much past prime will pay off given the cost of shift time. There is no question however that you could get better times out of the car.

Just one more opinion in a sea of too many.
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Old 01-15-2010, 12:48 AM   #14
poetic--playa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UFOpilot View Post
I disagree with people's method for determining shift points, completely. For one thing, I doubt you have any power past 5700 that's worth using, and you surely aren't getting "on top of the gear" by using the extra 1000 rpm. In fact you are over-running the prime band. Steve.804 seems to be the only person so far to notice this, and I agree completely. A friend of mine conveyed a story of how he missed 3rd and hit 5th instead, he hit the same time he did running it too high all the times before. There is a complex (though not overly complicated) method for determining your shift points, and you have to take the wheel torque into consideration. Not WTQ as defined by a dyno, but actual torque at the wheel for a given rpm. You then have to decide how much past prime will pay off given the cost of shift time. There is no question however that you could get better times out of the car.

Just one more opinion in a sea of too many.
i dont really understand this. what i am getting here is that if i was able to see my powerband (via dyno sheet) i would be able to plan my shift points, and in cases such as a stock td04, shifting as early as 5700-6k would be optimal? if i did that, wouldnt the next gear fall too short and i'd be waiting a bit for boost?
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Old 01-15-2010, 12:56 AM   #15
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A TD04 is bad, but its not that bad. On a 2.0L you shouldnt be shifting at 5700 RPM on the TD04.

Peak power usually occurs in the neighborhood of 5500 RPM and torque at 3500 RPM IIRC. But you don't want to shift at 5500. You would want to run it out another 700-800 RPM to take advantage of the area under that curve. Power over 6500 RPM drops off pretty quick usually (depending on your supporting mods, fuel, and tune) so no point in running out past that in 2nd/3rd but I would have to say its probably faster running 1st out to redline.

Keep in mind where you shift is determined by the shape of your powerband, which largely is effected by your tune. 20 psi should put out a lot of torque. Especially in cold temps at sea level. The higher your low/midrange torque values, the more advantageous it would be to short shift.

A trap speed of 99mph at sea level tells me there is something that's not quite right with the car. Even if your ET isnt the best, the trap speed usually doesn't change much. I would be hoping for significantly faster traps. No huge boost leaks/heatsoak/timing map problems? Running on 19" rims?
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Old 01-15-2010, 07:46 AM   #16
Steve.804
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poetic--playa View Post
i dont really understand this. what i am getting here is that if i was able to see my powerband (via dyno sheet) i would be able to plan my shift points, and in cases such as a stock td04, shifting as early as 5700-6k would be optimal? if i did that, wouldnt the next gear fall too short and i'd be waiting a bit for boost?
Optimally you want to shift at redline to take advantage of your gearing but that's also assuming your vehicle is still making power at that RPM. The TD04 is a very small turbo and the 20psi of boost you were tuned for is only good for low-midrange RPM. Once you rev it out to 7k the next shift has already fallen beyond the powerband.

You also need to keep in mind your et is mostly made up in your first half of the 1/4 through your launch and how quickly and smoothly you can grab 2nd gear. So don't think the next time you head out and lower your rpm's you're going to be running 13's, you really need to practice driving it. You should however pick up some mph in trap speed. My previous 02 WRX using the canned stage 2 map from the v1 AP trapped 101.
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Old 01-15-2010, 10:14 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UFOpilot View Post
I disagree with people's method for determining shift points, completely. For one thing, I doubt you have any power past 5700 that's worth using, and you surely aren't getting "on top of the gear" by using the extra 1000 rpm. In fact you are over-running the prime band. Steve.804 seems to be the only person so far to notice this, and I agree completely. A friend of mine conveyed a story of how he missed 3rd and hit 5th instead, he hit the same time he did running it too high all the times before. There is a complex (though not overly complicated) method for determining your shift points, and you have to take the wheel torque into consideration. Not WTQ as defined by a dyno, but actual torque at the wheel for a given rpm. You then have to decide how much past prime will pay off given the cost of shift time. There is no question however that you could get better times out of the car.

Just one more opinion in a sea of too many.
He has a 2.0L car, the fall off isn't nearly as bad as the 2.5's.

Quote:
Originally Posted by poetic--playa View Post
i dont really understand this. what i am getting here is that if i was able to see my powerband (via dyno sheet) i would be able to plan my shift points, and in cases such as a stock td04, shifting as early as 5700-6k would be optimal? if i did that, wouldnt the next gear fall too short and i'd be waiting a bit for boost?
A dyno will not load the car the same as the road/track will. Running it in one gear from down low (loading it up) and ripping through the gears also put different loads on the car and change the curves. The best method for determining shift points is to hit the track alot and get comfortable enough to make changes from run to run.

Quote:
Originally Posted by xsnapshot View Post
A TD04 is bad, but its not that bad. On a 2.0L you shouldnt be shifting at 5700 RPM on the TD04.

Peak power usually occurs in the neighborhood of 5500 RPM and torque at 3500 RPM IIRC. But you don't want to shift at 5500. You would want to run it out another 700-800 RPM to take advantage of the area under that curve. Power over 6500 RPM drops off pretty quick usually (depending on your supporting mods, fuel, and tune) so no point in running out past that in 2nd/3rd but I would have to say its probably faster running 1st out to redline.

Keep in mind where you shift is determined by the shape of your powerband, which largely is effected by your tune. 20 psi should put out a lot of torque. Especially in cold temps at sea level. The higher your low/midrange torque values, the more advantageous it would be to short shift.
Agreed 5,700 is way too early on a 2.0. I've had best experiences taking 1st as far as possible (the gap to second is just ridiculous), 2nd almost to redline and then shifting the 3-4 a little shorter, maybe 6,300-6,500 (which means closer to 6K indicated on the tach). Also, flat shifting the 3-4 will bump your traps a bit, but doesn't seem to have as big an effect on time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by xsnapshot View Post
A trap speed of 99mph at sea level tells me there is something that's not quite right with the car. Even if your ET isnt the best, the trap speed usually doesn't change much. I would be hoping for significantly faster traps. No huge boost leaks/heatsoak/timing map problems? Running on 19" rims?
In cool weather he should be faster, but until he makes a clean run with good shifts, you don't really know as the car may trap 103 and look fine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve.804 View Post
You also need to keep in mind your et is mostly made up in your first half of the 1/4 through your launch and how quickly and smoothly you can grab 2nd gear. So don't think the next time you head out and lower your rpm's you're going to be running 13's, you really need to practice driving it. You should however pick up some mph in trap speed. My previous 02 WRX using the canned stage 2 map from the v1 AP trapped 101.
Agreed, getting a good launch and keeping momentum/carrying g's during the 1-2 is most important. Just work on that 60 and 330 and the rest is easy. After you have your 60's and 330's down, you can focus on playing with your 3-4 shift point and see what works best. GL
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Old 01-15-2010, 10:55 AM   #18
STi Mikey
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^^^^

I was waiting for the master of stage 2 2.0 wrx's to chime in.
Dave's word is the answer.

If anyone disagrees, show me your low 12 second pass

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