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Old 01-16-2010, 04:56 PM   #1
smadasam
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Default 2.1 stroker not making power

I have been having dyno woes lately, and I think we are trying to get to the bottom of it.

Here is a list of what I have done to my car:
K&N short ram intake
Gimmick turbo inlet
FP 68HTA turbo
X02 FMIC (Greddy style copy)
800cc injectors + walbro fuel pump
HKS cat less up pipe
GP Moto tubo back - removed Invidia catted dp and Spt catback
Maxwell power built ej20 motor with 2.1 stroker kit
BC cams with 272 duration
Stiffer BC valve springs
ACT lightweight flywheel
With Maxwell Power tuning (dom tune)

With the above mods we are struggling to get over 300 hp. At first we thought that maybe one of the fuel rails was too crimped, so we replaced it with no luck. The MAF sensor indicated that even with the turbo reaching 17-18psi, there was still hardly any air flowing. I just cleaned my K&N filter, so that doesn’t seem like a problem. It seems like there is some kind of major restriction somewhere in the intake or the exhaust. I don’t see how the intercooler could be blocked. Which leads me to think the exhaust must be causing a LOT of back pressure. The one thing I can think of is maybe my hi-flow cat is clogged or failed in some way. Maybe the timing belt on the cams is off. My engine also seems to reving supper slow.

Any ideas what could be wrong with my ej20 92x?

update 1: So we swapped the exhaust for a GP moto turbo back, and the car immediately pulled 40-50 more hp over the last tune, however 320 whp is still kind of weak for this build... Next move is to swap the TD05H exhaust housing on the 68hta for a 10cm one from Blouch. Plus the EGT we starting to get high, they put a more conservative tune until my hot side comes in.

Final update: we changed out the hot side of my Forced Performance 68hta to a 10 cm^2 hot side from Blouch and retuned my 2.1 stroker. We managed to go from a little over 300 whp to 330 whp with pump gas, but not quite what you might hope for in a turbo that supposedly can flow 47 lbs/min.

What can I say? The Forced Performance 68HTA is poor turbo choice for my engine. Something a little bigger was in order. It is nice to have the power all the way to 8000+ rpm though, but that is more a function of my engine and not the turbo. At least I won't have to rebuild my tranny because of the outlandish output.

Many thanks to Dom and the guys at Maxwell Power to get my engine build ironed out. Maybe in the future, I will have some more saved money for a bigger turbo or rotated kit.
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Last edited by smadasam; 03-04-2010 at 09:24 PM.
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Old 01-16-2010, 05:08 PM   #2
jaxscuby
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the cat in down pipe..
what about up pipe?
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Old 01-16-2010, 05:38 PM   #3
smadasam
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Originally Posted by jaxscuby View Post
the cat in down pipe..
what about up pipe?
cat less
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Old 01-16-2010, 05:38 PM   #4
andymullins
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Somehow guessing that they did not use stock catted up.
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Old 01-18-2010, 02:08 AM   #5
smadasam
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Any ideas other ideas?
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Old 01-18-2010, 10:31 AM   #6
NITROS
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TGV's did you mess with them in anyway? If so what was done? I experanced slow reving when I installed a TPS sensor incorrectly on my TGV's.

Btw I have also have a 2.1 stroker that has some oil leaks I need to work out. running 10 psi on a 18g seems to run pretty damn well.
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Old 01-18-2010, 11:07 AM   #7
ownnij
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it might be the turbo? i used to have a few fp turbos and one of them didn't flow any air at all.. i'm talking about td04 bad. just a suggestion.

i think your motor would like a gt3076r .63 housing.. it would love it.
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Old 01-18-2010, 05:34 PM   #8
smadasam
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NITROS View Post
TGV's did you mess with them in anyway? If so what was done? I experanced slow reving when I installed a TPS sensor incorrectly on my TGV's.

Btw I have also have a 2.1 stroker that has some oil leaks I need to work out. running 10 psi on a 18g seems to run pretty damn well.
No, we didn't mess with the TGVs, but we can check the sensor.
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Old 01-20-2010, 12:30 AM   #9
smadasam
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Default

So we swapped the exhaust for a GP moto turbo back, and the car immediately pulled 40-50 more hp over the last tune, however 320 whp is still kind of weak for this build...

There is still too much back pressure in the system. It looks like the TD05H hot side of the FP 68HTA is to blame at this point. It would seem that it is too small for my 2.1 stroker with bigger cams...

Is it posible to buy a TD06H exahust housing and put it on the 68HTA?

Or, would it be better to go with something like an TD06H-18g?

Or, is there a better third option?

My goal is fast spooling power.
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Old 01-20-2010, 05:12 PM   #10
Turbo_Mike
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Unless the turbo is bad then its not your restriction at all. And since its making 18 psi, its working.
But you can make more power than that with a VF39, especially with your mods.

Check your TGV position sensors they should both read around .38 volts with the engine warm and revving.

Pull timing covers off, check timing. Maybe even pull the exhaust and intake manifolds off to see if you have a cylinder not working right or blocked with something...
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Old 01-21-2010, 02:47 AM   #11
CKxx
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I'm out of the loop. What does that turbo make on a stock 2.0L WRX?

I wouldn't expect big HP gains from the 0.1L, but it does help with tq and off-boost driving.

Also, I had an 8^3cm FP18G on my 2.1 and I would definitely classify it as quick-spooling. It made 306/296 at TXS, but they specifically told me that my crappy factory-style cat was killing the top-end.
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Old 01-21-2010, 06:39 PM   #12
sense of nature
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It's a Saab
Sorry I had to say it
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Old 01-21-2010, 07:28 PM   #13
smadasam
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Well we swapped my turbo back for GP moto cat-less turbo back and my car pulled another 40-50 hp right away up to the 320 range; still, there is too much back pressure. My car kind of hits a ceiling at 4k rpm and my egt starts to climb.

Keep in mind the psi the turbo is putting out is only part of the equation. The real goal is to stay in its efficiency range with max flow lbs/min. Right now, my 68hta is never in the efficiency range really. To make any boost at all the back pressure gets supper high right now, more than 2:1, and so the compressor of the 68hta is not being efficient. With my larger cams and valve overlap, I don't think turbo as-is is well matched for my stroker build.

The next thing we are going to try is a larger 10 cm exhaust housing form Blouch. Going from 6cm to 10cm should really open it up and solve the back pressure issue. If this works, the 68hta should spool like crazy and hopefully flow the advertised 47 lbs/min.

Maxwell Power has been great in helping me iron out my build so far. I will let you know how the 10 cm housing does.
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Old 01-22-2010, 10:51 AM   #14
NITROS
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Stroker = Broken 3rd

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by smadasam View Post
Well we swapped my turbo back for GP moto cat-less turbo back and my car pulled another 40-50 hp right away up to the 320 range; still, there is too much back pressure. My car kind of hits a ceiling at 4k rpm and my egt starts to climb.

Keep in mind the psi the turbo is putting out is only part of the equation. The real goal is to stay in its efficiency range with max flow lbs/min. Right now, my 68hta is never in the efficiency range really. To make any boost at all the back pressure gets supper high right now, more than 2:1, and so the compressor of the 68hta is not being efficient. With my larger cams and valve overlap, I don't think turbo as-is is well matched for my stroker build.

The next thing we are going to try is a larger 10 cm exhaust housing form Blouch. Going from 6cm to 10cm should really open it up and solve the back pressure issue. If this works, the 68hta should spool like crazy and hopefully flow the advertised 47 lbs/min.

Maxwell Power has been great in helping me iron out my build so far. I will let you know how the 10 cm housing does.

Wow, sorry to hear the turbo isnt a good match. My build is identical to your except that i run a fp 18g 7cm^2. I havent gotten on it yet as my engine is fully broken in yet. I am planning to pick up a Blouch 2.5 XTR Polka Pickle


Perrin Big Maf intake
Gimmick turbo inlet
FP 18G 7cm^2 turbo
Hyperflow TMIC
780cc injectors + walbro fuel pump
Sti cat less up pipe
Invidia dp
Greddy evo1 Catback
built ej20 motor with 2.1 stroker kit
BC cams with 272 duration
Stiffer BC valve springs
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Old 01-22-2010, 11:05 AM   #15
hybrid gti 2
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What about the header? pnp or equal?
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Old 01-22-2010, 11:02 PM   #16
smadasam
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Originally Posted by hybrid gti 2 View Post
What about the header? pnp or equal?
Stock
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Old 01-22-2010, 11:12 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smadasam View Post
I have been having dyno woes lately, and I think we are trying to get to the bottom of it.

Here is a list of what I have done to my car:
K&N short ram intake
Gimmick turbo inlet
FP 68HTA turbo
X02 FMIC (Greddy style copy)
800cc injectors + walbro fuel pump
HKS cat less up pipe
Invidia catted dp
Spt catback
Maxwell power built ej20 motor with 2.1 stroker kit
BC cams with 272 duration
Stiffer BC valve springs
ACT lightweight flywheel
With Maxwell Power tuning (dom tune)

With the above mods we are struggling to get over 300 hp.
Get a new turbo if you want more power.

Leslie
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Old 01-23-2010, 06:59 AM   #18
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The small restrictive hotside of the turbo is not a good combination for the 272 cams. As you suspect you need to free up the exhaust side to prevent the overlap on the cams from doing more harm than good. You might be able to improve things by dialing out some overlap at the expense of a little spoolup.
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Old 01-23-2010, 08:15 AM   #19
jaxscuby
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any chance the inlet hose is collapsing?
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Old 01-23-2010, 01:19 PM   #20
hybrid gti 2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smadasam View Post
Stock
Your kidding right?

All these good mods and you slow it all down with a low flow header. Not even a port and polish with a grimmspeed cross pipe. You know with a larger turbo you have to have enough flow. Flow is the key.

I think this could be one of your restrictions. That and why a spt exhaust. Granted more flow them oem. Yet not exactly high flow. Then what about the tgv's?
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Old 01-23-2010, 01:39 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hybrid gti 2 View Post
Your kidding right?

All these good mods and you slow it all down with a low flow header. Not even a port and polish with a grimmspeed cross pipe. You know with a larger turbo you have to have enough flow. Flow is the key.
How much more restrictive is the 2.0 WRX header than an OEM Sti header? People make some pretty big numbers with stock sti headers. that would be a cheap upgrade. Have you guys checked compression?
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Old 01-23-2010, 02:20 PM   #22
hybrid gti 2
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They are the same...
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Old 01-23-2010, 02:40 PM   #23
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Then it's definitely not a problem.
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Old 01-23-2010, 03:08 PM   #24
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the factory exhaust manifolds flow pretty well.. SOme thing is up with your tune imo. If its hitting a ceiling at 4k then it seems like a timing issue
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Old 01-27-2010, 02:37 PM   #25
smadasam
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pavlo View Post
The small restrictive hotside of the turbo is not a good combination for the 272 cams. As you suspect you need to free up the exhaust side to prevent the overlap on the cams from doing more harm than good. You might be able to improve things by dialing out some overlap at the expense of a little spoolup.
Thanks for your input. This is the current thinking of my tuner. We ordered a 10 cm hot side, and hopefully that will free it up.
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