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Old 01-19-2010, 12:28 AM   #1
AFAP_Nor_CA
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Question Back road rally stall will not start, BROKEN TIMING BELT NO SPARK

(96 subaru impreza L) o man ok so i was driving in the rain on a muddy back road having some fun lots of pot holes with mud and it was doing really well until the car just died. I tried to restart it but it would not start. The starter cranked strong but it seems like its just not getting spark. i was saved my some one it a blazer who had a tow strap and pulled me home. on the way i tried to bump start it,,, nothing, i even left it in gear for along time wile he was pulling me, and it never started, never even gave me a sine it was trying. i took the intake off (stock intake) and the box had water in it, the filter was a little wet but the intake after that looked dry. so im kind of stumped maybe it got water in it? or maybe a bum shook a wire loose, i just need to know where to start. Please any help would be appreciated. Thank you so much.

it cranks very ez as if all i did was theres just not spark, every thing i have read about "hydrolock" seems to say that it has a very hard time cranking,, so i dont know.

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Last edited by AFAP_Nor_CA; 02-04-2010 at 03:04 AM. Reason: No Water in the intake BROKEN TIMING BELT NO SPARK!!!
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Old 01-19-2010, 12:39 AM   #2
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yeah you def. drnak some water on that from what it sounds like. Not good for the motor but not sure what to suggest you to do.
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Old 01-19-2010, 12:53 AM   #3
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I wouldn't just jump to that conclusion Diablo, unless he has modified his intake it's very hard to suck enough water for hydrolock unless the nose was way submerged in a puddle. I'm guessing something fuel-wise or ignition-wise is loose...

I'd start with checking for spark and fuel pressure.
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Old 01-19-2010, 01:11 AM   #4
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Wow, second thread started on this problem tonight...

Quote:
Originally Posted by KnifeyMcShanker View Post
unless he has modified his intake it's very hard to suck enough water for hydrolock unless the nose was way submerged in a puddle.
apparantly not that hard, considering

Quote:
Originally Posted by AFAP_Nor_CA View Post
i took the intake off (stock intake) and the box had water in it
I find it wild to believe that your stock box sucked that much water in, but if the box had water pooled in it, who's to say how much it had before it went dead. If the starter is clicking and you're just not getting any spark, it's a possibilty. You might try to pull the spark plugs and inspect them and also change the oil... see if any water is in the oil. While you're under there double-check your connections and make sure everything is still plugged in.
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Old 01-19-2010, 02:01 AM   #5
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Quote:
Wow, second thread started on this problem tonight...
sorry i really looked but i just could not find the thread (i have been in the mud in the dark and rain and cold tonight so ...) sorry about that
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Old 01-19-2010, 02:22 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AFAP_Nor_CA View Post
sorry i really looked but i just could not find the thread (i have been in the mud in the dark and rain and cold tonight so ...) sorry about that
Nah, I just meant it's a coincidence that two different people had the same problem so close together... I hate it happened to you and hope everything works out. I actually owned a '96 L myself with the 2.2L motor and loved it.
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Old 01-19-2010, 04:52 AM   #7
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yes i love this car the 2.2 is very strong, i also have a 93 L but it only has a 1.8 and FWD. i dont take that one in the mud. so i have been doing some reading tomorrow im going to check to see if im getting spark, maybe my coil fried? i would be happy if that was so.. like i said when i looking in the intake tube it looked dry. if it is getting spark im going to pull all the spark plugs and see if they are wet with water. if they are not im going to check to see if its getting gas. If anyone else has some ideas on what else i can check please post it. Thank you
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Old 01-19-2010, 08:38 PM   #8
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update
I pulled the intake and it had no water in it,, in fax it was very dry so i
I pulled the plugs and got no spark we ran this little computer on it and it gave us the code that there was a problem with the cam positioning censor so i replaced it, still no spark. then I replaced the Crank Shaft Positioning censor still no spark replaced the coil,,, no spark. ran out of ideas please help

Last edited by AFAP_Nor_CA; 01-19-2010 at 08:44 PM.
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Old 01-19-2010, 09:14 PM   #9
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in fax i would check the wiring for the cam pos. sys. if there is a code for it that is the most likely cause. no signal from cam pos sys = no spark so no start.but turning over
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Old 01-19-2010, 09:31 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AFAP_Nor_CA View Post
so im kind of stumped maybe it got water in it? or maybe a bum shook a wire loose, i just need to know where to start. Please any help would be appreciated. Thank you so much.
You need to find a safer place to park vagrant winos are messing with your car.

J/K I had something similar happen to me yesterday when my CAI sucked up water so I feel your pain. I changed the oil and the spark plugs to check for water. Sounds like you've done that already. When I had the spark plugs out I stuck a suction gun in the heads to suck out any water that might have been there (mine was dry fortunately) but if you've put the spark plugs back so that's kinda a pain to do all over again. Other than that I suggest check you wires perhaps it's something electrical.
Good luck.
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Old 01-20-2010, 12:10 AM   #11
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Quote:
in fax i would check the wiring for the cam pos. sys. if there is a code for it that is the most likely cause. no signal from cam pos sys = no spark so no start.but turning over
so what your saying is I should trace back the wire that clips into the cam pos? Thats a good idea. I will to that tomorrow. is there anyway i can test the wires right a the plug? i dont know how that even works or what it dose. if i stuck an led light tester in it would it light up? please more info on the cam pos and the wire going to it. Thank you.

Also i have a computer from a car shop on the way tomorrow to plug into it,,, but i think its just going to say the same thing we will see.

Last edited by AFAP_Nor_CA; 01-20-2010 at 12:34 AM.
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Old 01-20-2010, 03:51 AM   #12
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To answer your question from the push start thread, pull your plugs and let the gas evaporate. It should be fine though unless you can smell gas.
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Old 01-21-2010, 12:09 AM   #13
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ok well i found this

http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/...ad.php?t=86750

I read all of it and on top of that one of my friends told me i should swap out the """ignitor""""

very very very good info on this link http://endwrench.com/images/pdfs/DirectIgnition.pdf

if you take a look at that link you will see what the igniter looks like. I went to the junk yard to day in oroville ca and even though they had like 4 subies that would do the trick,,,, every one of them was missing the ignitor. hmmm makes me think they must go out alot. ebay has them for about 25 bucks but i would like to have it faster.... so now its just about tracking down that part, i have some phone calls to make to some friends,,,, if anyone here in butte (i live in magalia) has one please let me know. Thank you, ill let you all know when i find the part and if it dose the trick.

Last edited by AFAP_Nor_CA; 01-21-2010 at 03:20 AM.
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Old 01-21-2010, 11:40 AM   #14
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this happened to me when i had my 350z. i was driving through a storm and hit a huge puddle in the middle of the road. i had to replace all fluids, plugs, and change out the starter because it shorted out when i tried to start it while still wet. started up fine after that
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Old 01-21-2010, 10:56 PM   #15
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When he's talking about the "ignitor", he means the black Power FR Control" unit that is mounted behind the dogbone on the firewall. btw Chris, Kragen wants $188 for that thing. I've pretty much ran out of ideas.
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Old 01-22-2010, 01:04 AM   #16
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CatchmyDrift is this Ben???? ya when i called kragon heard you went the kragen for me today looking for that part. Thanks dude ya That is way to much money to spend on that part. Ebay for about 25 to 30 bucks but I went down to Oroville and every one of them things were missing out of all of them but one and it was the older one that like whats on my 93. im going to talk to Joe to see if he has one.

Last edited by AFAP_Nor_CA; 01-22-2010 at 01:16 AM.
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Old 01-22-2010, 10:35 PM   #17
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Pull the plugs out, crank it over to get any water out of the cylinders. Also listen for the fuel pump priming when you turn the key on or disconnect a fuel line to see if you have fuel moving.

After things have dried out a bit. Pull a plug out, put it in the boot of one of the cylinders touch it to the intake manifold or a good clean piece of metal on the engine bay. Get someone to crank the motor over and see if there is spark.
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Old 01-23-2010, 01:15 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StaplesFck View Post
Pull the plugs out, crank it over to get any water out of the cylinders. Also listen for the fuel pump priming when you turn the key on or disconnect a fuel line to see if you have fuel moving.

After things have dried out a bit. Pull a plug out, put it in the boot of one of the cylinders touch it to the intake manifold or a good clean piece of metal on the engine bay. Get someone to crank the motor over and see if there is spark.

ok please take the time to read the updates before posting,,,, No water got sucked in. the intake was dry as a bone!
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Old 01-23-2010, 01:31 AM   #19
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Update

ok i changed the ignitor and NOTHING AAHAHAHHAHA!!! The only thing left is the ECU,,, unless some one has any other ideas,, (please read post to see what i have checked)

i have a 1996 subaru L impreza 2.2 and i fried the ecu. it is an 3F (the big letters/numbers) A18-000 D12 (blue plug)

I can take a pic if need be. i have been looking for this ecu and cant find one, so is there any other ecu that will work on my car. I have looked at the legacy or outback 2.2 the numbers down mach but the plugs do, i guess what im asking, is there a list of ecu that will work with my car?


TO RECAP WHAT I HAVE CHECKED:

1. Checked the intake (it was very dry, no water got sucked in)

2. Checked the spark. (NO SPARK)

3. Swapped out the plugs (NO SPARK)

4. Swapped out the coil (NO SPARK)

5. Swapped out the cam positioning censor (NO SPARK)

6. Swapped out the Crank Shaft Positioning censor (NO SPARK)

7. Swapped out the ignitor (black Power FR Control) (NO SPARK)

8. Swapped out the battery and guess what (STILL NO SPARK)

Checked the grounds checked the wires and the plug ins. So thats why its got to be the ECU,,,, I thing. .. Please help me!
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Old 01-23-2010, 11:01 AM   #20
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hi there
first thought
um... you're not out of gas are you?
96 Impreza's are known to have very bad and very faulty fuel meters/gas gauges.


2nd thought
this off road you were messing around on.
was it really rough? extremely rutted/pot holed?

If so... I'm going to bet something came loose.

a ground. an vacuum hose. something.
If the car was running fine, you were on a very rough road
and all of a sudden it dies??? this to me is a likely explanation.


get the car up on a lift / up on jack stands
look around. check everything. everything!

as a rally driver, i've seen it all. Hell even my power steering pump fitting has come loose before
(not fun!)


good luck.
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Old 01-23-2010, 06:38 PM   #21
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i had done just that.. i have looked over every thing and just cant find anything, 3 days of just making sure every thing is clipped in and no wires are shorted... Yes it has gas it had a 1/4 tank and i put 10 bucks in it and only went about 3 miles so i know there is gas but even if there was no gas it would still spark when i try to crank it. (test is i pull one of the spark plug wires and put a spark plug in it and hold it to the block wile my buddy is cranking the ignition.)

My knock sensor is cracked and as soon as i get one im going to replace it but i think i would still be getting spark.

yes the road was one the most bumpy roads. but here is the weird things is it died on a strait aways with very little bumps,, really just mud.
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Old 01-23-2010, 07:10 PM   #22
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When you turn the key to ON, does the CEL come on, then flash off for a fraction of a second, then come back on?

Also gonna start wondering about the wiring that goes from the ECU to the coil pack, would be wondering if that was bad.
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Old 01-23-2010, 07:46 PM   #23
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skipped timing maybe...?

do you remember exactly what cam position code?
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Old 01-23-2010, 08:08 PM   #24
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when i turn on the key you can hear the fuel pump turn on, you can here all the little sounds, (like normal) but as the risk of sounding dumb i dont know what the "CEL" is that your asking me if it comes on. please more info on this..

Also the wires look good as far as i can see,, is there any way to test them? if i took out the ecu (i have it out now) and unpluged the ignitor and ran power to the plug to each wire then went inside the car and using the plug that gos into the ecu, checked each pin to see with the power was getting through. would i run the risk of frying anything? or is the wire from the ignitor to the ecu a straight shot.
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Old 01-23-2010, 08:11 PM   #25
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i dont remember exactly what cam position code and we had to give back the tester we were using.

would skipped timing stop it form having any spark??

Last edited by AFAP_Nor_CA; 01-23-2010 at 08:16 PM.
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