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Old 01-19-2010, 07:45 PM   #1
Dirty25RS
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Default Injector Scaling & E85 question

If I am running E85 w/ 1200cc injectors and I have roughly a 600 injector scalar and I'm running at 95% duty cycle max, does that mean I'm really at 600/1200*95%=47.5% duty cycle?
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Old 01-20-2010, 03:13 PM   #2
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ummm, bump?

I realize the question has nothing to do with E85 technically, but I thought it'd be worth mentioning anyways for explanation.


....
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Old 01-20-2010, 03:53 PM   #3
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If you're logging 95% duty cycle, then you're running 95% duty cycle. Scalar does not apply to IDC.

It should be pretty obvious based on your HP. You should be at an HP level that would NOT be supported by 600cc/min of E85. (WELL over 400WHP)
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Old 01-20-2010, 04:05 PM   #4
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That's where it gets into the more technical details of whats goin on.

I'm dealing with a car that made 493awhp 3 months ago on a mustang AWD dyno

1200cc precision injectors
Fuel lab regulator
Walbro double pumper
GT3076R

NOW, according to the installed instrumentation. I'm leaning out to a null A/F ratio @ 1-2psi of boost. @ 95% duty cycle

instrumentation is:
Turbosmart Eboost2 boost gauge/controller
AEM wideband.
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Old 01-21-2010, 02:42 PM   #5
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anyone else ever experience something like this?
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Old 01-21-2010, 04:22 PM   #6
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95% IDC at 493HP with 1200cc on E85 I believe

1-2 psi of boost @ 95% IDC is not happening. You're flooding the engine with fuel at 95% IDC and 1200cc injectors at 100 HP or whatever you're at with only 1-2 PSI. You'd be running so rich, the car would stall.

What were the symptoms that were happening that caused you to look into IDC etc...
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Old 01-21-2010, 08:35 PM   #7
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the symptom was the AEM wideband reading a increasingly lean A/F ratio untill it goes null.....at 1-2 PSI, it stays null all the way up to the 24psi i have it restricted to right now.

It doesn't matter how you go through that boost range, WOT or partial throttle it leans out to null.

The car also wont accelerate when its in the 2-3k rpm range, it sputters, you gotta downshift to get it above 4k to accelerate.

so because of this we datalogged, (on my friend's laptop so i dont have the logs on me right now) and the log said we were at 83% IDC.

We richened up the map quite a bit, did a few more pulls while logging. The car was richer in general, but still leaned out to null a/f according to the AEM wideband @ and above 1-2 psi of boost.

I know it doesn't make sense, I wouldn't be asking the question if I understood why it was goin on.

I have a hunch whats goin on but i dont want to say it because i want others' neutral opinions on the facts that i'm stating.

thanks for responding
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Old 01-21-2010, 10:05 PM   #8
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Either the wideband or more likely, the wideband O2 sensor is BAAAAAAAADDDDDD. Had it happen more than once.
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Old 01-21-2010, 10:09 PM   #9
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next 2 things i have planned are:
1. to datalog/rig up a fuel pressure sensor, make sure thats in line
2. doublecheck that AEM wideband with my Innovate wideband
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Old 01-22-2010, 08:57 PM   #10
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WBO2 sensor sounds like a possibility, but if the car is sputtering, then something is actually wrong. Car wouldn't respond different to the WBO2 going out.

Were you at 83% IDC when it was sputtering? Or were you WOT at higher RPM? I'd concentrate first on what was happening when it was sputtering. That's going to tell you what's actually wrong IMO.

Leaning out & sputtering points towards vacuum leak or fuel pressure, so you're on the right track with a FP gauge. They can be had pretty cheap from Summit. $30 I think, then you can Tee off an existing line just for temporary use and remove it when you're done with the diagnosis.
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Old 01-22-2010, 09:05 PM   #11
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^lucky me, summits right down the street! (the original) and i get an employee discount from my friend.

I'm not sure what IDC i was at when it was sputtering but it was LOW rpm, cruising rpm....between 1500 and 2500 I'd say, across all throttle positions great enough to cause acceleration (usually), I'd say 25%-WOT

sputtering @ 1.5-2.5krpm 25%-WOT

I'm going to do a lot of datalogging & tuning tomorrow, I'll post my log and any other results when I'm done.

Oh forgot to mention, car also has 272 cams.
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Old 01-24-2010, 08:04 PM   #12
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well....I didn't get to datalog, cuz life's complicated...I'm sure you understand.

Fuel pressure is 48psi,surges up 5-10psi when you rev the engine in neutral.
I confirmed the AEM wideband is working properly. My innovate read A/F's of 20:1 to 45:1 @ 10-25% throttle (probably uncorrected lambda). WOT and it just sputters.

I think its getting worse. It could barely supply enough fuel to coast in 1st at idle rpm tonight. I couldn't accelerate at all because the A/F ratio would rise to null.

This makes me think the fuel filter might have dissolved and is clogging the system, the fact that its getting worse. that somebody installed a fuel filter thats incompatible with E85.

I'm not mad or frustrated. This is interesting.
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Old 01-29-2010, 10:33 AM   #13
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car has the AEM surge tank system.
It has 3 walbro 255lph pumps, one in tank supplyin the surge tank, 2 in parallel after the surge tank, one of those is always on, the other kicks on at 5psi boost via hob switch.
Checked all three, they are functioning properly.

I may have been wrong about the fuel pressure last time, its at 38psi and holds at that steady. Car can't build boost past -11 psi because it runs outta fuel.

changed plugs, the ones that were in looked fine.

next thing I'll do is pull the injectors and see if they are clogged.

If its not that, I dont know what is causing this car to run apocalypitcally lean.
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Old 01-29-2010, 11:48 AM   #14
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its your regulator. with the car running pinch of the vacuum line going to the reg. if your FP does not goes up (which you just explained that it does not) you reg is bad or a clogged filter. interesting how you said that your base FP was 48 and now its 38??? i think your reg is bad. i have see it happen before, nothing new and it has nothing to do with E85 , i have had the same aeromotive reg for over two years on E85! if your WB is reading 45:1 you are losing fuel pressure especially if you say it is getting worse.
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Old 01-29-2010, 12:34 PM   #15
Dirty25RS
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I also said I may have been wrong about the 48psi reading. i was in the drivers seat while my friend was under the hood and thats what he told me. he has bad eyesight, lol.
fuel pressure is solid at 38psi up to the -11 psi max boost i can get currently.
I will try pinching the vacuum line next time i work on the car

thanks for the input.
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Old 01-31-2010, 11:48 AM   #16
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Fuel pressure is holding solid at 38psi. checked injectors, they are immaculate. checked fuel filter....immaculate.

Regulator.....like i said...fuel pressure is solid. rev the engine in neutral, no pressure change, take off the vaccuum line....no change, adjust the spring...no change. so its not really doing any regulating, lol. either that or my gauge is broken. going to go buy a 2nd gauge to confirm. if confirmed, yeah probably regulator
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