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Old 01-10-2010, 03:10 PM   #1
turbo01gc8
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Default aftermarket turbo kit questions

i installed an aftermarket garrett turbo kit to my 01 impreza l. got a 2.2 sohc engine. the kit came with a 10:1 rrfpr and 2 additional injectors. the rrfpr actually feeds the 2 additional injectors. seems strange that i need two fprs. i have the stock fuel system and was just wondering how the vac lines should be routed for both fprs to operate. also wondering the best way to run boost gauge and blow off valve. seems that i have read that the fpr vac lines need to not be tapped into for other things to operate correctly
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Old 01-12-2010, 12:03 PM   #2
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day 2...bump
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Old 01-12-2010, 06:09 PM   #3
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What i think you meant by 10:1 rrfpr is FMU , as in fuel management units ? as in your not tuned.

If so for starters throw those ****ing things as far as you can there garbage, now onto better things your going to need something proper for tuning like a stand alone.

As for your boost gauge its fine if you put it on your fpr line, your bov vac line should go to its own nipple on the intake.
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Old 01-12-2010, 10:35 PM   #4
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well the rrfpr actually feeds my 2 extra injectors so i kinda need it unless there's other ways to feed them. yes i have a turbo specialties fmu that i can adjust fuel at certain rpms and boost with the extra 2. since there is only two vac ports i was thinking of putting the bov to the port on the #3 intake runner where the factory fpr was then moving the fprs to the center vac port that has other things t'd off. do you think my car studders at times b/c of this 10:1 fpr? i was thinking of getting the P6 from rallitek but i might just get it tuned without being able to control timing since i was told the factory ecu will account for it due to knock sensors and not much boost. also my boost gauge fluctuates a bit at part throttle and under boost so i figured i would figure that out before i dropped $400 on the P6. i just replaced all my intercooler couplers with some 4 ply silicone jobs w/ t clamps and it still fluctuates a bit.....any ideas?

i also think my bov opens too soon. it actually opens when not even making boost like 10-0 in/hg. funny thing is it actually sounds like a supra when its in boost. almost like compressor surge???? i think i'll tighten it up a bit
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Old 01-12-2010, 10:49 PM   #5
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spend another 500 for proper equipment
rrpfr are a joke... if youve got an old golf kart youve got a turbo on sure
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Old 01-12-2010, 11:52 PM   #6
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gotta get the basics first man....money is pretty tight. what is the golf kart about? by the way what do i do with the reg besides scrap it? how do i fuel the other injectors then? like where should i tie it into? do you think i should do parallel conversion when i get a few bucks? and if so what is the best way to do it since i've seen so many ways? can't i use the stock lines or is it recommended that i pull the manifold and replace everything w/o doing rails?
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Old 01-13-2010, 07:52 AM   #7
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^ You remove your 2 extra injectors/your rrfprs/ and your fmu. Then you get 4 bigger injectors and get something proper to tune with like a stand alone.
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Old 01-13-2010, 12:27 PM   #8
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I agree with removing the 2 extra injectors. That is silly. Find some larger injectors that fit your rails (side feed STi IIRC fits).

He doesn't need a standalone LOL. A nice piggy back like an emanage, or perfect power will (and has) work fine. They can be had for a fraction of the price of a standalone. He should get a tune though.

People need to remember to factor in EM and tuning with builds. They dump all kinds of money into the engine and then skimp out on the part that matters most.
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Old 01-13-2010, 01:08 PM   #9
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well i get that i am going to need a tune and i did factor in the EM part of it. i was told that the extra injectors would work for me if i don't have any EM. what are some other options of fuel injectors i could go with? i've seen factory ones modded but not sure if i can with mine. i have an 01 impreza L w/ the 2.2 sohc.

also what would happen if i just remove the 10:1 rrfpr and still run the 2 injectors for now until i save for EM and injectors if i can't mod mine?

also if they can be modded can i run them w/o EM? do i really need to worry about timing at this point or just fuel? b/c don't i need to get an adapter for fuel control with the greddy e-manage?
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Old 01-13-2010, 04:04 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iluvdrt View Post
I agree with removing the 2 extra injectors. That is silly. Find some larger injectors that fit your rails (side feed STi IIRC fits).

He doesn't need a standalone LOL. A nice piggy back like an emanage, or perfect power will (and has) work fine. They can be had for a fraction of the price of a standalone. He should get a tune though.

People need to remember to factor in EM and tuning with builds. They dump all kinds of money into the engine and then skimp out on the part that matters most.
Your contradicting yourself, you say some people chimp out on fuel management and dump all the money on the engine and then you say to use a piggyback instead of a stand alone ?

I agree a piggyback can do the job.. but nothing beats a plug&play standalone like for example power fc.
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Old 01-13-2010, 04:29 PM   #11
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Your contradicting yourself, you say some people chimp out on fuel management and dump all the money on the engine and then you say to use a piggyback instead of a stand alone ?

I agree a piggyback can do the job.. but nothing beats a plug&play standalone like for example power fc.

I don't see your contridiction? Not buying a $2500 standalone and instead buying a piggy back is still not skimping when a standalone isn't required. Piggybacks have come a long way since the early Honda days, and many have A LOT of capabilities standalones do.

Yes, I agree %100 a standalone is the way to go. I am not arguing that. I am only saying if a stock ECU runs the motor fine, and you only need minor adjustments to pull fuel and timing a piggy back works just fine.

If this guy were running 800CC injectors, and 18G turbo with some sort of valve lift system, I wouldn't have suggested it. It is a stock motor with a turbo bolt on basically. No need to bust out the big guns for him to win this fight.

Also as stated by the OP, he is on a budget. A piggy back will be a good safe alternative to nothing.
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Old 01-13-2010, 05:04 PM   #12
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I don't see your contridiction? Not buying a $2500 standalone and instead buying a piggy back is still not skimping when a standalone isn't required. Piggybacks have come a long way since the early Honda days, and many have A LOT of capabilities standalones do.

Yes, I agree %100 a standalone is the way to go. I am not arguing that. I am only saying if a stock ECU runs the motor fine, and you only need minor adjustments to pull fuel and timing a piggy back works just fine.

If this guy were running 800CC injectors, and 18G turbo with some sort of valve lift system, I wouldn't have suggested it. It is a stock motor with a turbo bolt on basically. No need to bust out the big guns for him to win this fight.

Also as stated by the OP, he is on a budget. A piggy back will be a good safe alternative to nothing.

I agree with you man... Come on DR3W Using a Stand Alone for this setup is WAY overkill, and would probably cost more than the car is worth. You dont kill a fly with a jack hammer... The stock ecu is known, and PROVEN by countless builds on this forum and others using good piggyback management. You are right about the bigger injectors though, That is definetely the most reliable way to deliver the fuel...

And dare I say it??? With a mild set up such as this, using the stock ecu with piggyback management to control fuel and ignition timing in boost is a far smarter and cost effective solution to using a standalone...Makes me wonder if DR3W has any experience whatsoever doing turbo setups on cars that never came with them.

turbo01gc8, You have a lot more research ahead of you before you successfully bring this off. The questions you are asking here are the most simple and basic, questions that have been asked and answered 1000 times here before. You gotta search the s**t out of these forums and others. Otherwise your thread will sit dead, with a few smart ass responses.

You can buy an emanage blue with the harnesses for around $300 or less. You can get plug&play harnesses for it or you can learn to wire it your self. Or, you can pay a shop to do it all for you, including tuning. Prepare to pay through your nose.
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Old 01-13-2010, 06:41 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by cdnsigop View Post
I agree with you man... Come on DR3W Using a Stand Alone for this setup is WAY overkill, and would probably cost more than the car is worth. You dont kill a fly with a jack hammer... The stock ecu is known, and PROVEN by countless builds on this forum and others using good piggyback management. You are right about the bigger injectors though, That is definetely the most reliable way to deliver the fuel...

And dare I say it??? With a mild set up such as this, using the stock ecu with piggyback management to control fuel and ignition timing in boost is a far smarter and cost effective solution to using a standalone...Makes me wonder if DR3W has any experience whatsoever doing turbo setups on cars that never came with them.

turbo01gc8, You have a lot more research ahead of you before you successfully bring this off. The questions you are asking here are the most simple and basic, questions that have been asked and answered 1000 times here before. You gotta search the s**t out of these forums and others. Otherwise your thread will sit dead, with a few smart ass responses.

You can buy an emanage blue with the harnesses for around $300 or less. You can get plug&play harnesses for it or you can learn to wire it your self. Or, you can pay a shop to do it all for you, including tuning. Prepare to pay through your nose.

Thank you for the back up. I have built, ran and somewhat tuned several boosted engines using a good piggy back. years later they are still going strong.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dr3w View Post

I agree a piggyback can do the job.. but nothing beats a plug&play standalone like for example power fc.
That almost sounds like an endorsement LOL. Do you work for power FC?
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Old 01-13-2010, 07:00 PM   #14
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I has piggyback(s). APEXi SAFC Neo and S-ITC (old skool). The only standalone I have is the AVC-R boost controller, which controls better than the Power FC boost kit. Boost control in every gear. My car idles and drives fine just like stock with a Nissan N60 blow-through MAF configuration, no hesitation or bogging, whatsoever. Yes, the SAFC can scale MAFs too, buy fiddling with the IN/OUT settings. Did I also mention 18-20psi on the VF34 too? Piggybacks are limited to an extent. But that 'extent' can be further than what many think.

Coming from a group of underdogs, for what the OP wants, standalones ARE an overkill for his build. +1 for that.
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Old 01-13-2010, 07:21 PM   #15
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^ Your right what was i thinking, spending 450$ on a Safc and another 400$ on an electric boost controller is a much better idea then picking up a used Power fc for 700$ off ebay.

More expensive piggyback setup that is very limited is a much better choice then a stand alone... yes sir!
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Old 01-13-2010, 07:51 PM   #16
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i appriciate all your input b/c its the most ive gotten yet. so to sum this up, i should remove all the extra fuel stuff that came with my kit(2 injectors, fpr, and fmu) when i get enough cash for either the P6 or E-manage to control fuel and timing right? then i'll get it tuned from there. anything else i should look into?

is there a way to mod my injectors?
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Old 01-13-2010, 08:04 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by dr3w View Post
^ Your right what was i thinking, spending 450$ on a Safc and another 400$ on an electric boost controller is a much better idea then picking up a used Power fc for 700$ off ebay.

More expensive piggyback setup that is very limited is a much better choice then a stand alone... yes sir!
Who said anything about $450 for an SAFC? Or even $400 for a boost controller? They can be had far far cheaper... I got my used Emanage Blue for $300 Canadian dollars. It came with the ignition harness, the injector harness, the support tool, the knock sensor signal modifier(which I dont use), and all the documentation and packaging for each. My boost controller cost me about $8. Modding my stock injectors to 390cc was free. I spent around $700 total with the Emanage, Walbro 255LPH HP pump, and AEM UEGO wideband... Another $100 for the boost gauge. And $170 for my Scangauge II OBD2 code reader .

So, under $1000 CAD for a total engine management, monitoring, and tuning solution, that allows me to do all my own datalogging and tuning, without needing to pay for dyno tuning services. S**t, it really adds up!

I got my AVO BB turbo and uppipe for $100, so I guess that makes up for it lol...
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Old 01-13-2010, 08:40 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by turbo01gc8 View Post
i appriciate all your input b/c its the most ive gotten yet. so to sum this up, i should remove all the extra fuel stuff that came with my kit(2 injectors, fpr, and fmu) when i get enough cash for either the P6 or E-manage to control fuel and timing right? then i'll get it tuned from there. anything else i should look into?

is there a way to mod my injectors?
Again, more research required... If they are the top feeds, you can probably grind the screen off the tip, and get close to twice the flow rate of stock. A lot of searching and a little logic should get you the right answer, along with a lot of other answers to questions you probably have.

Heres a quick list to get you on the right track. Common sense dictates you having the car in good mechanical condition before embarking on this path... You do have a boost gauge, right??

1. Whether you plan to do your own tuning or not, get a wideband o2 with a gauge. IMO, that is a wise first purchase. Even if you dont tune yourself, its good for monitoring...S**t happens. It also helps you understand what is going on in your engine. That info helps you make informed decisions about everything else lol~$200-$250

2. A high flow, high pressure fuel pump is cheap insurance, and will support more power than your stock bottom end will handle. ~$90

3. Fuel/Igniton Management:
I believe your car is using just a MAP sensor, right? If so, An SAFC will work like a champ, especially with bigger injectors(Like turboing Honda's back in the day...). The other nice thing about the SAFC is that it is self contained, all its adjustments are made on the unit's interface, no laptop to haul around. If you use 93 octane or so always, you shouldnt need to pull any timing for 6psi or so(The SAFC cannot directly control ignition timing), and you probably wont need bigger injectors either(although not ideal).

For 8psi and up, IMO, a fuel pump(Walbro 255LPH HP or equivalent), a piggyback solution that can control fuel and ignition timing, and definitely bigger injectors will support pretty much as much as the stock bottom end will tolerate(Im using 390cc injectors and making ~11psi to redline)

MY wife needs this computer, gotta go

Last edited by cdnsigop; 01-14-2010 at 08:41 AM.
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Old 01-15-2010, 02:25 PM   #19
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yes i have boost gauge and it flutters a bit at part throttle and under boost. yes the car uses a map sensor. i also have a map box that makes the ecu think its seeing normal voltage. so you are saying that i might not need to upgrade the injectors? you say you are using 390's and i was wondering if they would fit my rails. i have a 02-03 wrx fuel pump i got from a buddy and i was thinking of upping to a walboro unit and was thinking of going parallel to distribute fuel better.
i will also be looking into the WB o2 for future reference. most tuners can install one of these for tuning purposes then remove it right?

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Old 01-15-2010, 05:13 PM   #20
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yes i have boost gauge and it flutters a bit at part throttle and under boost. yes the car uses a map sensor. i also have a map box that makes the ecu think its seeing normal voltage. so you are saying that i might not need to upgrade the injectors?
If you search, you will find other setups using the stock injectors with 6psi. Keep in mind this is with a smaller turbo. Not the best idea, if there is a boost spike or other conditions (Extremely cold weather, sea level, etc) you WILL run out of fuelling headroom real quick. If you end up using a piggyback or other engine management, you will have to get rid of that map clamp. Trying to scrimp on the fuelling side of a setup like this is asking for trouble. I promise, trouble will come, sooner or later...(What I mean by this is not having a clue as to what you are doing combined with a hairs width of fueling margin is bad. Guys run stock injectors fine, but they seem to know what they are doing otherwise...)

Quote:
Originally Posted by turbo01gc8 View Post
you say you are using 390's and i was wondering if they would fit my rails.
Mine are side feed, yours are top feed. They wont fit. Im pretty sure you can mod yours, research, there is a bunch of threads. It took me hours of searching and a well placed PM to get the injector modding procedure for my particular side feed injectors. Hint: The info is on NASIOC.

Quote:
Originally Posted by turbo01gc8 View Post
i have a 02-03 wrx fuel pump i got from a buddy and i was thinking of upping to a walboro unit and was thinking of going parallel to distribute fuel better.
You saw the post I wrote. The walbro is cheap insurance. The lines should be fine as stock, IMO. Especially for 6 psi lol.

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Originally Posted by turbo01gc8 View Post
i will also be looking into the WB o2 for future reference. most tuners can install one of these for tuning purposes then remove it right?
Yes, but it helps to know whats going on with your AFR at all times. Especially when turbocharging a car that didnt come that way from the factory... Again, cheap insurance...
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Old 01-17-2010, 11:23 AM   #21
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so the end result is to get WB O2, walboro fp, piggy back like e manage or p6, then remove all fmu that came with this kit and map clamp. also this fmu injector interface box has a vac port that i guess is to see boost for additional fuel.
not too cheap of insurance but i'll start saving. lol

do you have any pics of your build?

Last edited by turbo01gc8; 01-17-2010 at 11:36 AM.
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Old 01-17-2010, 12:17 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by turbo01gc8 View Post
so the end result is to get WB O2, walboro fp, piggy back like e manage or p6, then remove all fmu that came with this kit and map clamp. also this fmu injector interface box has a vac port that i guess is to see boost for additional fuel.
not too cheap of insurance but i'll start saving. lol

do you have any pics of your build?
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1888017

Ill have updated pics there soon...
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Old 01-23-2010, 11:28 PM   #23
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so i was looking into the wb 02's and was wondering which one, if any, are better? analog/digital, brand, etc.
also any pointers on piggy backs?
after reading back you state i will have to get rid of the map clamp. what will i need to do for an alternative?

Last edited by turbo01gc8; 01-23-2010 at 11:40 PM.
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