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Old 01-24-2010, 01:05 AM   #1
Cbgrandtheftauto
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Default EJ20K VS Late Ej20G

I had a chance today to do some measuring...I ran across a set of 20k heads that had some issues and I proably wont be able to use...but I have a set of late 20g heads (from a forester)and was wanting to swap everything over...I bought the heads for a great price $80 shipped (thanks to topguneagle1) when i got the heads and was looking over them before I could compare them to the 20G heads they looked different....here are some pics...(20g on left 20k on right)





as far as castings they are the same...except for a couple of small things...I'll mention them when i get to the pics....

Intake ports...



the intake ports are very close in size...the 20k ports are maby .30 thousants larger...here the castings are different...the 20k's ports stick up a tad higher than the 20g..I found this out when I started to take pics of the exhaust ports and the 20g was setting lower

exhaust ports...



only difference here is again the 20k's ports are real close to .30 thousants larger....one factor I have thought about was maby more heat and less carbon build up on the 20k could have made the size difference...Now the fun part...


Shim over bucket VS shim under bucket...






here is another casting difference...20k has cross hatching inside the head where the 20g is smooth but has a casting lines along the inside edege..also the 20g has a slit for the spark plug gasket where the 20k doesnt

Buckets...20g on left...20k on right...



20k's shim setting in front of it...

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Last edited by Cbgrandtheftauto; 01-24-2010 at 01:15 AM.
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Old 01-24-2010, 01:06 AM   #2
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20g's shim off of the bucket...








last but not least we have valve's...







these were almost imposible to measure but I finally got them..they are the same on both heads...I havent measured the CC of the heads but I am sure they are the same







I only have one question...the buckets from the 20k when I bought them were all in a bag and marked but the grease made the writing start to come off...so would it hurt if the buckets and shims werent in the exact spot they came from??
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Old 01-24-2010, 01:20 AM   #3
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yeah you must put the shims back in the right spot, or your valve lash will be off.

if its to tight your valve may not shut. thus burning the valve. or if its to loose the shim could slip out and cause all kinds of problems...

you must put them in the right spot.

i just bought a set of V4 STI heads with the same problem, shims and buckets all in a box, and unmarked...

check them all with a micrometer, both shims and buckets and match them up. install them and check valve lash...

took me close to 3 hours to get mine all right...

-=Suberdave=-

if you dont use the shim under buckets. let me know, i may want to buy some/all your shims from you...
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Old 01-24-2010, 01:35 AM   #4
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damn ..this is gonna be real fun...Im gonna be using everything from the 20k but if you need anything from the 20g I'll let you have it for cheap...I also will proably be getting those Intake manifold spacers from you sometime soon
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Old 01-24-2010, 03:15 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by suberdave View Post
yeah you must put the shims back in the right spot, or your valve lash will be off.

if its to tight your valve may not shut. thus burning the valve. or if its to loose the shim could slip out and cause all kinds of problems...

you must put them in the right spot.

i just bought a set of V4 STI heads with the same problem, shims and buckets all in a box, and unmarked...

check them all with a micrometer, both shims and buckets and match them up. install them and check valve lash...

took me close to 3 hours to get mine all right...

-=Suberdave=-

if you dont use the shim under buckets. let me know, i may want to buy some/all your shims from you...
this was my problem. when i was taking the heads off and moving them around and stuff, i didnt have a engine stand, so i had the engine laying flat in its normal orientation, and all the exhaust side buckets fell out. i tried to remember which went where but ... alas i may have get them backwards (kept them in order but didnt know which was first. 4-3-2-1 instead of 1-2-3-4 probably)....
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Old 01-24-2010, 09:57 AM   #6
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So nothing new, the pictures just confirm what I've been telling all along
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Old 01-24-2010, 11:51 AM   #7
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so about the valves...

i have read roumers that the K STI has titanium valves, i dont buy that... they are way to heavy to be titainum.

i beleave they are stainless steel. untill about half way up the stem then they go to steel. i know this sounds crazy. but if you take a magnet the face of the valve is not magnetic but about half way up the steem there is a line, then it is magnetic...

check the exhaust valves in both heads and see if they are magnetic.

-=Suberdave=-
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Old 01-24-2010, 12:25 PM   #8
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intake or exhaust? or both?

sodium filled was what i always heard, not titanium.
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Old 01-24-2010, 12:46 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kheff46 View Post
intake or exhaust? or both?

sodium filled was what i always heard, not titanium.

sodium is what i heard as well...


I'll check them later on dave and post up what I found...

I do know the 20k buckets are a bitch to get out since they have a magnet on them holding the shim and it rejects my magnet on a stick
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Old 01-24-2010, 12:53 PM   #10
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You may want to do things cheaper, but if you have some money, you can always make an offer if the seller is accepting offers for some fully decked/cleaned/and perfect set of EJ20K VER4 heads:

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1919819
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Old 01-24-2010, 12:58 PM   #11
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found that the other day...its a little out of my price range...I wanted to ask if he would part the cams but im sure he wouldnt....I cant seem to find any used 20k cams...I checked JUN and another brand ( cant remember atm) and they were wanting about 2xx.00 per cam..and they were the high lift cams..Japanparts.com has them but are close to the same price for stock cams
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Old 01-24-2010, 01:04 PM   #12
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maybe sodium filled SS up to a certain point, then cheaper SS(hence magnetic) stems?!

i know i have some SS parts that are magnetic. it says stainless, but def. has some iron somewhere, because theres a magnet stuck to it!

i always heard SS sodium filled for the STi's, and SS or whatever "normal" valves from LGT/RS/Forester's/K engine cars
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Old 01-24-2010, 01:28 PM   #13
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that makes since...

yeah stainless has steel in it. and it can be a different ratios.

-=Suberdave=-
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Old 01-24-2010, 01:46 PM   #14
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yeah, high % iron on the stems, and low% in the heads/face(filled with sodium).

i think if mine are F'd im gonna use stock RS valves instead of trying to spend months worth of income on V4 ones.
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Old 01-24-2010, 04:32 PM   #15
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well I checked them just now and on the back of the intakes they are very strong(of course is due to springs, shims(on 20k), retainers) and the front on both they have a little magnitism...my nizism...

as far as exhaust on both....nothing from the front..but a little due to as mentioned above the springs, retainers, ect.

so with my magnet on a stick (seen in pic #1) the rears of both valves intake and exhaust on both heads was strong enough to support itself when I stood the heads up horizontal

the front of the intakes were strong enough to pull the magnet to it but not strong enough for me to let go and it stand on its own
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Old 01-27-2010, 04:22 PM   #16
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I got a couple questions about measuring....what am I looking for when I measure the shims and buckets??...do I arange them where they are close to the same number for all??...how do I measure the buckets??
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Old 01-27-2010, 09:46 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marnix View Post
So nothing new, the pictures just confirm what I've been telling all along
But riddle me this... These are EJ20K STI heads with shim under bucket. What about just plain standard Ej20K heads with shim over bucket. Wouldn't those be the same as those late Ej20G heads? Isn't it only because these heads are STi that there's any difference at all between the two castings?
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Old 01-28-2010, 12:00 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cbgrandtheftauto View Post
I got a couple questions about measuring....what am I looking for when I measure the shims and buckets??...do I arange them where they are close to the same number for all??...how do I measure the buckets??
I have the same question. what tools do i need and how do i measure the shims/buckets/cams/springs/valves/everything to match the correct shims to buckets to valves ?
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Old 01-28-2010, 02:09 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elislider View Post
I have the same question. what tools do i need and how do i measure the shims/buckets/cams/springs/valves/everything to match the correct shims to buckets to valves ?
You need a dial...I don't know where my head was when I ask that question...


I measured my shims and buckets and each one was around .1 tenth...I got 6 of the shims and buckets together and I set them exactly on .20...I have a few more to go but there going to be .01-.05 away from my number...another question is I need cams to check valve clearance right??...I don't have cams for the heads yet
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Old 01-28-2010, 06:57 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cbgrandtheftauto View Post
You need a dial...I don't know where my head was when I ask that question...


I measured my shims and buckets and each one was around .1 tenth...I got 6 of the shims and buckets together and I set them exactly on .20...I have a few more to go but there going to be .01-.05 away from my number...another question is I need cams to check valve clearance right??...I don't have cams for the heads yet
i assume you are talking about .01mm?

my question is, is there any way to know where they are "supposed" to go, if for example i had a bag with shims and buckets and just pulled out a shim and a bucket, could i do some sequence of measurement and deduce where they go? or does it not work that way
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Old 01-29-2010, 09:23 AM   #21
Cbgrandtheftauto
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elislider View Post
i assume you are talking about .01mm?

my question is, is there any way to know where they are "supposed" to go, if for example i had a bag with shims and buckets and just pulled out a shim and a bucket, could i do some sequence of measurement and deduce where they go? or does it not work that way
Yea...sorry I didn't say that

That's what I done....but I have ran across a couple shims that are .01-.03mm larger and not sure how to match them up...I guess that's where checking the valve lash comes in.


I also wanted to add...I have post whored myself to specialist
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Old 01-31-2010, 07:32 AM   #22
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You need cams with torqued down cam caps to measure valve clearance. You can use the thinnest shims/undershims you have and use that one for each valve measurement and calculate the required shims that way. Then you can pick the shims you have or check what you have to buy new.
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Old 01-31-2010, 08:49 AM   #23
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Make sure you measure the concentricity as well. I will check with the technician that set the valve lash on my Ver 4 STi heads, he should know the valve metallurgy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by suberdave View Post
if you dont use the shim under buckets. let me know, i may want to buy some/all your shims from you...
PM me what you need. I have a full set of Ver4 WRX head guts including the cams, buckets/shims, springs, retainers, etc. Two of the intake valves were bent as well as one exhaust valve. I opted to redo a set of STi heads vs. reworking the WRX heads...I didn't want to deal with sourcing the valves and the STi heads were complete.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cbgrandtheftauto View Post
found that the other day...its a little out of my price range...I wanted to ask if he would part the cams but im sure he wouldnt....I cant seem to find any used 20k cams...I checked JUN and another brand ( cant remember atm) and they were wanting about 2xx.00 per cam..and they were the high lift cams..Japanparts.com has them but are close to the same price for stock cams
That would be me. Yeah I won't sell the cams, especially since everything was just redone. But I'm a reasonable person, so if you are interested in the heads send me a PM.

Last edited by beaviscih; 01-31-2010 at 09:03 AM.
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Old 01-31-2010, 11:40 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by suberdave
Originally Posted by suberdave
if you dont use the shim under buckets. let me know, i may want to buy some/all your shims from you...
Quote:
Originally Posted by beaviscih View Post
PM me what you need. I have a full set of Ver4 WRX head guts including the cams, buckets/shims, springs, retainers, etc. Two of the intake valves were bent as well as one exhaust valve. I opted to redo a set of STi heads vs. reworking the WRX heads...I didn't want to deal with sourcing the valves and the STi heads were complete.
Wouldn't the WRX heads have shim over bucket heads? I have STI heads with the shim under bucket.

-=Suberdave=-
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Old 01-31-2010, 12:57 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by suberdave View Post
Wouldn't the WRX heads have shim over bucket heads? I have STI heads with the shim under bucket.

-=Suberdave=-
You are right, I thought you were talking about WRX buckets.
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