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Old 01-28-2010, 02:14 AM   #26
joshmanSTI
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I'm pretty sure mine failed and my engine is toast. I have to open her up to tell for sure. I wish I knew about this before.
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Old 01-28-2010, 02:46 AM   #27
teesutt
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I've got a 2005 STi with 72k on it. Picked up the killerb oil p/u on a group buy a month ago, got a great deal on it. gonna install on my next oil change, coming real soon.
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Old 01-28-2010, 02:52 AM   #28
subynation
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ive been searching for tell tale signs of this being needed.
using a prosport oil pressure gauge and sender,what should my cold start,boosting and idle(after warm up)pressures be?
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Old 01-28-2010, 02:55 AM   #29
teesutt
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there are no telltale signs. it could just go one day, and you're flooped.


my opg reads:

at cold start-95psi
at wot under normal operating temp-85psi
idle-~30psi
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Old 01-28-2010, 11:32 AM   #30
B!G-N8
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I know these might sound like dumb questions, but I thought I would bring it up.

What causes this type of issue to occur? Is this caused by excessive heat or vibration that makes the tube weak overtime? The OEM Oil Pickup looks like it needs better support to prevent movement like the KillerB one has. Maybe the OEM one is just crap metal and can't withstand the heat.

Also, is this more prone to happen on the EJ25 when tracked?

What are your thoughts on this?

Thanks
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Old 01-28-2010, 11:56 AM   #31
fistandauntilus
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i bought mine a while back in a group buy. it is a real nice piece. unfortunately i havent had a chance to install it yet. hopefully i can slap it on there in the next couple of oil changes.
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Old 01-28-2010, 12:01 PM   #32
KillerBMotorsport
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Quote:
Originally Posted by B!G-N8 View Post
I know these might sound like dumb questions, but I thought I would bring it up.

What causes this type of issue to occur? Is this caused by excessive heat or vibration that makes the tube weak overtime? The OEM Oil Pickup looks like it needs better support to prevent movement like the KillerB one has. Maybe the OEM one is just crap metal and can't withstand the heat.

Also, is this more prone to happen on the EJ25 when tracked?

What are your thoughts on this?

Thanks
The state of modification has nothing to do with the pickup failures, at least I have no correlation based on the data I've collected. Here's a copy/paste from another thread I made a while back explaining the failures...

So on to the factory pickups… They are brazed assemblies (it's kind of like welding, but more like soldering with temperatures much lower than welding ~800 degrees. The braze is the gold stuff you see between the parts, see pictures here). For the braze to properly hold the metal pieces together this stuff called 'flux' is put on the areas where the braze will be applied. The flux makes sure that when the parts are heated up that the braze flows between and sticks to the metal parts properly. When operators, or machines, puts the flux on these parts to get them ready for brazing, the flux must AT LEAST cover the area that needs to be brazed together. So the application of the flux is typically quite liberal and sloppy.

This application of flux and brazing seems to be done properly because I've never seen a braze joint failure. The problem is that the flux SHOULD be cleaned from the parts after the brazing process has been completed. We'll come back to this in a second.


Now the tube, where the failures occur, is a simple thin (~.030") wall seam welded tube. A seam welded tube is basically a long skinny flat piece of metal that gets rolled into a tube and then welded where the ends meet. If you look at some of the pics in my link above you'll see a distinct line that runs the length of the tube. That's the weld. Welded tubing has its downside. While cheap, the weld can be the achilies heal if not done properly. When done properly a weld in low carbon steel will be harder, stronger and more brittle. In this situation it's a rougher surface too (when you look under a microscope, compared to the non-welded areas). Anytime there is an irregularity on the surface of a material with lumps, bumps, pits, etc., it creates a weakness.


OK so let’s get back to the braze… When not removed from certain process affected areas, specifically a hardened brittle weld, it will get into any micro pock mark or pit when it's applied and heated and a chemical reaction will occur. The flux reacts with the specific metal condition of the weld (harder and pits, etc..) and will etch into the pits making them deeper... and can also make the metal more brittle too. This is what ends up weakening the tube to the point of crack formation. And the fact that it's bolted to the bottom of an engine and exposed to vibrations doesn't help either.


Speaking to vibrations and engines modified with bolt-ons. Engine vibration is not as much a contributing factor as you might initially think for a few reasons. The rotating assemblies are fairly well balanced and harmonically dampened. The oil pickup is submerged in oil, and filled with oil. This dampens the engine vibrations tremendously at the pickup. Some assume the pickup is just swinging around from the engine vibrations, but forget that the pickup is also in oil and full of oil. Now where high frequency vibrations do come from is the oil pump. Typically called ‘high frequency pressure pulsation’, these lower amplitude pulses can have a more pronounced affect because of harmonics that can build in the pickup assembly, possibly where a critical frequency may be being reached at certain RPMs (speed of the oil pump).

So essentially, based on what I have experienced and learned, the OEM oil pickup failures are initiated from a chemical reaction from braze flux on the weld seam and these weakened areas are taken advantage of by oil pump induced high frequency vibrations.
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Old 01-28-2010, 12:22 PM   #33
B!G-N8
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Thank you! This makes complete sense. Do you think SOA would even care to hear this?

Oh BTW, thank you for the black polished shift knob. I really like it. Works very well in combination with my TWM short shifter

Last edited by B!G-N8; 01-28-2010 at 12:30 PM.
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Old 01-28-2010, 02:40 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by B!G-N8 View Post
Thank you! This makes complete sense. Do you think SOA would even care to hear this?

Oh BTW, thank you for the black polished shift knob. I really like it. Works very well in combination with my TWM short shifter
I'm sure they've heard this before. I know there are a handful of threads regarding legal action on this, at least there were a while back, but to date nothing has materialized

No problem on the knob, glad you like it
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Old 01-28-2010, 03:03 PM   #35
moorebl
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are the models b4 the 06 experiencing this dilimma. my 2005 sti runs like a champ and i was wonderng if there were any casses o the 05's pickup failing. if there are mark me in i am gonna order this. how much are these units btw
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Old 01-28-2010, 03:10 PM   #36
AlxSti
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^^ they are ~$215 shipped. im ordering one now. 2 week delay on shipping as of now.
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Old 01-28-2010, 04:39 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by moorebl View Post
are the models b4 the 06 experiencing this dilimma. my 2005 sti runs like a champ and i was wonderng if there were any casses o the 05's pickup failing. if there are mark me in i am gonna order this. how much are these units btw

SEE PICKUP FAILURE POLL HERE
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Old 01-29-2010, 07:05 PM   #38
Canonshooter
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Installed mine last August in a '07 FXT. I was installing Grimmspeed PnP exhaust manifolds at the same time so have the EMs out of the way helped too. I placed a bottle jack under the 4EAT (as far forward as possible, with a block of wood in between) and jacked the engine up about 1.5 inches. This helped quite a bit with the bolts in the rear.

Tip for losening the pan - once all the bolts are out, take a 5 pound lump hammer, hold a block of wood against the side of the pan and give it a wack or two. This quickly breaks the gasket seal.

My OEM tube looked OK with 59k miles on it, but now I have peace-of-mind with the KillerB unit in.
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Old 01-29-2010, 08:13 PM   #39
KillerBMotorsport
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^^ Good removal tip!

Another thing that works quite well... A few swift kicks with a heavy boot!
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Old 01-30-2010, 01:06 AM   #40
clkoontziii
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wow first ive heard of this. (06 wrx tr with 101,000 miles) I think I need to get one LOL
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Old 01-30-2010, 02:09 AM   #41
fistandauntilus
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hey man i have a couple of questions about the procedure. did you only loosen the bottom 2 mounts only when you lifted the motor or any others--ie the pitch stop (dogbone)? were the the 2 top radiator mounts removed? did you how high did you lift the motor? thanks!
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Old 01-30-2010, 03:27 AM   #42
MorphiasX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fistandauntilus View Post
hey man i have a couple of questions about the procedure. did you only loosen the bottom 2 mounts only when you lifted the motor or any others--ie the pitch stop (dogbone)? were the the 2 top radiator mounts removed? did you how high did you lift the motor? thanks!
Yup, only loosened the two lowers, only to the bottom of the bolt though. Do not remove the nut completely. I left the dogbone on, and didn't touch the radiator mounts. You only jack it up about an inch or less. You still dont have much room, but just enough to get the ratchet in there with a universal joint and some extensions.

Oh and to break the seal of the pan, I beat the hell outa it with a rubber mallet.
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Old 01-30-2010, 10:48 AM   #43
gabedude
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I re-brazed my pickup before people were selling a fix. Hope it lasts.
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Old 01-30-2010, 10:54 AM   #44
KillerBMotorsport
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Originally Posted by gabedude View Post
I re-brazed my pickup before people were selling a fix. Hope it lasts.
Cross your fingers because it's not the braze that fails.
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Old 01-30-2010, 10:59 AM   #45
gabedude
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KillerBMotorsport View Post
Cross your fingers because it's not the braze that fails.
Would give me an excuse to sleeve a spare block I have.
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Old 01-30-2010, 11:45 AM   #46
tekfoc
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gabedude View Post
Would give me an excuse to sleeve a spare block I have.
true gabe ! , but i dont think its worth loosing your heads and turbo .
You should definitely get one since your like me always in the engine

I love the killer b pickup !
if i had the extra money i would get the oil pan also .
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Old 01-30-2010, 11:47 AM   #47
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We have two STis, an 06 and an 07. I'll probably look into this when we do our clutches. Last time I had my engine out, there was no part sold like this yet. So, mine is a bit reinforced, but I worry some more about the 06. Since they both need clutches next, I could do both then. Gives me a reason to do the clutch the easy way too (pull the motor).

On a side note, my pickup looked fine but it did need a new braze. The brazing job Subaru did kind of sucked.

Damn popular product.

Quote:
$212.50 SHIPPED! On Backorder until 2/8/10 - Order now to reserve your pickup!
http://www.killerbmotorsport.com/ind...teOiPickup.htm

Last edited by gabedude; 01-30-2010 at 12:00 PM.
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Old 01-30-2010, 12:27 PM   #48
KillerBMotorsport
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Since I don't have them in stock, another option is...

Killer B Motorsport RETAILERS.
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Old 02-01-2010, 05:13 PM   #49
fistandauntilus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MorphiasX View Post
Yup, only loosened the two lowers, only to the bottom of the bolt though. Do not remove the nut completely. I left the dogbone on, and didn't touch the radiator mounts. You only jack it up about an inch or less. You still dont have much room, but just enough to get the ratchet in there with a universal joint and some extensions.

Oh and to break the seal of the pan, I beat the hell outa it with a rubber mallet.

that is great news, i was afraid i was going to have to take off all kinds of parts in order to install this badboy. that doesnt sound too bad. i will definately install the pickup at my next next oil change.
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Old 02-01-2010, 06:37 PM   #50
GuamSTI
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I have an 04 STI with 16K miles. I did not know about this failure until I read it at Wikipedia that the 04 suffers from such a failure. My car has 16K autox miles on it. I think I will need to do this mod. How much is the KillerB pick-up shipped via USPS Priority Mail to Guam USA 96921?

On removing and installing the oil pan is there a sequence and torque specs on how tight those bolts need to be? You have to use a new oil pan gasket, how about a sealant?

Will the Killer B oil pick up work with a high capacity oil pan?

Last edited by GuamSTI; 02-01-2010 at 07:14 PM.
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