Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Thursday November 27, 2014
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Home Registration is free! Visit the NASIOC Store NASIOC Rules Search Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Calendar Archive NASIOC Upgrade Garage Logout
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC General > News & Rumors > Non-Subaru News & Rumors

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-28-2010, 04:26 AM   #1
AVANTI R5
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 73805
Join Date: Nov 2004
Vehicle:
mint 4 sale M4 65k

Default A Hydrogen Highway for the East Coast



Quote:
One of the big issues facing hydrogen is just where we’re supposed to fill the cars that might run on the stuff. A Connecticut company is answering that question on the East Coast with plans for a “hydrogen highway” that will extend from Portland, Maine, to southern Florida.

California historically has been a hotbed of hydrogen research and development, but SunHydro wants to put the East Coast on the H2 map with 11 solar refueling stations.

The self-contained stations use electrolysis technology from Proton Energy that takes electricity generated from solar power and splits water into hydrogen and oxygen. The process results in considerably fewer emissions than the traditional methods of shipping hydrogen to fueling stations by truck or reforming it from natural gas.

“Our goal is to make it possible for hydrogen car to drive from Maine to Miami strictly on sun and water,” company president Michael Grey said.

For all the attention on electric cars these days, several automakers continue developing hydrogen fuel cell vehicles. Honda is especially enamored with the technology. General Motors put the Chevrolet Equinox fuel cell vehicle in a few dozen driveways. Nissan is leasing a XTrail FCV truck to Coca-Cola. And Mercedes Benz will offer the F-Cell to “selected customers” in Europe and the United States this spring. Mazda and Volkswagen are among the technology’s proponents as well.

So, beyond giving the few hydrogen cars on the road a place to fuel up, the stations could help solve the the “chicken and egg” problem where the lack of fueling infrastructure begot a lack of cars and vice-versa.

“Having talked to several of the auto manufacturers, the indication that we’ve received is that there has to be a network of stations on the east coast for them to bring the cars here,” Grey said. “They want to bring the cars here, but there’s nowhere to fuel them.”

That quandary is familiar to Paul Williamson of the University of Montana College of Technology. “There’s no sense having hydrogen cars if there’s no place to refuel them,” Williamson said. “Most of the development is happening in California. Why? Because they have refueling stations.”

Williamson, whose family owned a service station when he was younger, likens the adoption of hydrogen technology to the early days of diesel. “We put in a pump behind our service station to begin with, and we had some cars and trucks here and there,” he said.

Similarly, SunHydro’s stations will appeal to early adopters and will be able to fill 10 to 15 vehicles per day to start. That isn’t much, but you’ve got to start somewhere. The first stations will be located in Portland, Maine; Braintree, Massachusetts; Wallingford, Connecticut; South Hackensack, New Jersey; Claymont, Delaware; Richmond, Virginia; Charlotte, North Carolina; Atlanta and Savannah, Georgia; and Orlando and Miami, Florida. If all goes well, Grey said the company hopes to expand westward.

“We’ve just decided that somebody needed to start this process,” Grey said. “You have a lot of the big companies talk about it, but nobody’s stepped up to the plate and made it happen.”

The company says using solar power to split water makes the capital requirements and maintenance costs cheaper than other hydrogen technologies. “From an efficiency standpoint, using the sun to make hydrogen is probably the most efficient method out there,” Mark Schiller, Vice President of Business Development at Proton, said.

The stations cost as much as $3 million to install and rely on private funding to make it happen (Tom Sullivan, founder of the Lumber Liquidators flooring supply chain, paid $10.2 million for Proton in August). Williamson says that’s the cost of doing business for a future-oriented company.

“You’ve got to have some visionary risk taking if you want to be a company of the future,” he said. “Otherwise, you’ll fall by the wayside.”


http://www.wired.com/autopia/2010/01...rogen-highway/
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
AVANTI R5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2010, 08:58 AM   #2
AVANTI R5
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 73805
Join Date: Nov 2004
Vehicle:
mint 4 sale M4 65k

Default New Honda Solar Power Hydrogen Station Debuts




Quote:
Honda began operation today of a new solar hydrogen station prototype at its Los Angeles Research and Development Center. It is a prototype of a home refueling “appliance” capable of an overnight refill of a fuel cell electric vehicle.

The latest iteration reduces the size of the system, while producing enough hydrogen (0.5 kg) during an 8-hour overnight fill for daily commuting of as much as 10,000 miles per year for a fuel cell electric vehicle.

The Honda FCX Clarity electric vehicle is “fast fill capable” and offers an EPA-estimated driving range of 240 miles. One problem, among many, with hydrogen as a fuel is that it needs to be compressed at very high pressures in order for a vehicle to carry enough to have a usable range. However, hydrogen offers the tantalizing promise of being an emissions free fuel for vehicles.

The previous solar hydrogen station system required both an electrolyzer and a separate compressor unit to create high-pressure hydrogen. The compressor was the largest and most expensive component and reduced system efficiency.
Honda says its engineers have now created a new high differential pressure electrolyzer that eliminates the compressor.

This development also reduces the size of other key components to make the new station what Honda claims is the world’s most compact system, while improving system efficiency by more than 25% compared to the solar hydrogen station system it replaces.



Note the size of the round hydrogen fuel tank.

The new Solar Hydrogen Station uses the same 48-panel, 6.0 kW solar array that powered the previous one. The array utilizes thin film solar cells composed of copper, indium, gallium and selenium (CIGS) produced by Honda Soltec Co., Inc., a wholly owned subsidiary of Honda that was established for the mass production and sales of solar cells capable of efficient renewable electricity generation.
The refueling appliance is compatible with a “Smart Grid” energy system, and would enable users to refill their vehicle overnight without the requirement of hydrogen storage, which in theory lowers CO2 emissions by using less expensive off-peak electrical power.

During daytime peak power times, the Solar Hydrogen Station can export renewable electricity to the grid, providing a cost benefit to the customer, while remaining energy neutral.

Honda claims it is simple to use and the user can easily lift and remove the fuel hose, with no “hose coiling” when the hose is returned to the dispenser unit.

As with the previous generation system, the hydrogen purity from the new station meets the highest SAE (J2719) and ISO (14687) specifications.
AVANTI R5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2010, 10:16 AM   #3
White out
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 46277
Join Date: Oct 2003
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: Michigan
Vehicle:
** Ring Time of
7:43.5

Default

Good to see this moving forward.

Nick
White out is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2010, 11:09 AM   #4
Chromer
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 20325
Join Date: Jun 2002
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Vehicle:
08 Yamaha WR250R
07 Suzuki DL650

Default

Good, but weird. The business case is very murky.

10-15 cars per day is 5500 a year, tops. You need $54/ car for 10 years just to cover the installation, ignoring interest, land cost, taxes, operation.

There are under 400 HFCV vehicles in the US right now, none actually privately owned by individuals (a few leased to customers), and none known to be sold prior to 2015.

Seems like a such a good way to lose your shirt that there has to be something else they're not telling us.
Chromer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2010, 11:18 AM   #5
Masterauto
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 198376
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Delaware
Vehicle:
X5D Subaru BRZ
Nissan GT-R

Default

They are a bit ahead of themselves. Natural gas LNG or CNG should be first as plenty resources and already serviced for commercial forklifts, truck etc. Infrastructure already in place. Burns clean and economical and can store enough in tanks for good fuel range. Gas powered vehicles easily retrofit.
My guess there is EZ money from Gov. and big hands grabbing in spite of non feasibility for hydrogen. Look next to build railroads no one will use too. Of course they could tax fuels to make us use them
Masterauto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2010, 12:02 PM   #6
sxotty
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 95600
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Pittsburgh
Vehicle:
2003 WRX wagon
Silver

Default

Yeah hydrogen is still just silly, but people are all so enthused about something that produces water as exhaust they tend to forget about everything else.
sxotty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2010, 12:15 PM   #7
Extraze
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 16980
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: QC, Canada
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chromer View Post
Good, but weird. The business case is very murky.

10-15 cars per day is 5500 a year, tops. You need $54/ car for 10 years just to cover the installation, ignoring interest, land cost, taxes, operation.

There are under 400 HFCV vehicles in the US right now, none actually privately owned by individuals (a few leased to customers), and none known to be sold prior to 2015.

Seems like a such a good way to lose your shirt that there has to be something else they're not telling us.
hum ... gas stations dont usually make alot of money off of gas (petrol) sales ... its just a portion of their profits ... you know they sell milk and cookies also right ? ... propane, car washes ... drinks, etc etc.

and no-where in that article does it say they wont ALSO sell gasoline...
Extraze is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2010, 01:44 PM   #8
AVANTI R5
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 73805
Join Date: Nov 2004
Vehicle:
mint 4 sale M4 65k

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chromer View Post
Good, but weird. The business case is very murky.

10-15 cars per day is 5500 a year, tops. You need $54/ car for 10 years just to cover the installation, ignoring interest, land cost, taxes, operation.

There are under 400 HFCV vehicles in the US right now, none actually privately owned by individuals (a few leased to customers), and none known to be sold prior to 2015.

Seems like a such a good way to lose your shirt that there has to be something else they're not telling us.

did you read this yet?? here you go.

http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2...25/459948.html
AVANTI R5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2010, 03:06 PM   #9
shikataganai
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 92634
Join Date: Aug 2005
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Vehicle:
2007 Land Cruiser
2013 LEAF

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AVANTI R5 View Post
did you read this yet?? here you go.

http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2...25/459948.html
What was in all those inlined youtube videos? I didn't get anything from the text other than that he repeatedly proclaims he's not a scientist... No ****.
shikataganai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2010, 03:08 PM   #10
Derbagger
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 32113
Join Date: Jan 2003
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Trollhatten, Japan
Vehicle:
05 Saabaru
Satin Grey

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chromer View Post
Good, but weird. The business case is very murky.

10-15 cars per day is 5500 a year, tops. You need $54/ car for 10 years just to cover the installation, ignoring interest, land cost, taxes, operation.

There are under 400 HFCV vehicles in the US right now, none actually privately owned by individuals (a few leased to customers), and none known to be sold prior to 2015.

Seems like a such a good way to lose your shirt that there has to be something else they're not telling us.
While I agree that the business case is shaky (isn't most "green" tech hard to justify $$ wise) it's likely that the hydrogen stations will be added to existing fueling stations that have space, like truck stops and rest areas.
Derbagger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2010, 05:44 PM   #11
godfather2112
Papi Chulo
Moderator
 
Member#: 53794
Join Date: Jan 2004
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Seattle
Vehicle:
.... OT Supplement
Testing Division.

Default

Im excited to see where this leads us. While I dont think its the right time for hydrogen fuel (as someone else already pointed out), its nice to see someone willing to lose their ass on it, in efforts to make progress.
godfather2112 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2010, 07:41 PM   #12
Masterauto
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 198376
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Delaware
Vehicle:
X5D Subaru BRZ
Nissan GT-R

Default

Masterauto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2010, 08:06 PM   #13
sxotty
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 95600
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Pittsburgh
Vehicle:
2003 WRX wagon
Silver

Default


48 panels 6kW solar setup to make 0.5kg of hydrogen per day. 27 miles from all day charging? That is fairly sad. It takes 8kWh to go 40 miles so 6 should get you 30. In other words 1 hour of charging an electric or all day so you can make super fun hydrogen. It's super fun!
sxotty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2010, 12:13 PM   #14
im2lazy789
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 166857
Join Date: Dec 2007
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: Watkins Glen, NY
Vehicle:
2009 Ford Mustang GT

Default

I'm glad to see the infrastructure starting.
im2lazy789 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Is Five Guys on the west coast as good as Five Guys on the east coast? Bryan T Off-Topic 26 09-08-2009 10:15 PM
A Beautiful Day for the East Coast Inversed Member's Car Gallery 35 01-08-2008 03:17 PM
The East Coast Invades the West Coast at HIN LA! Brainchild Customs Member's Car Gallery 57 09-11-2007 10:26 PM
Need advice for the East Coast Subaru Shootout. obyone Mid West Subaru Owners Club Forum -- MWSOC 0 09-07-2003 10:32 PM
Visited the east coast for the first time, saw lots of subies cRayZee Tri-State Area Forum 5 06-25-2001 07:45 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:56 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2014 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2014, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.