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Old 01-30-2010, 12:55 AM   #1
Motion Lab Tuning
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Default TD04 and E85 WRX - Nearly 275whp 300wtrq

Car details:

2002 WRX (stock motor and turbo)
  • 3" DP with remote cutout
  • 750cc injectors
  • TXS TMIC
  • XS Engineering Intake
  • Boost pill and some other mods that I forget.
Fuel:

Tuned on 93 octane (gray lines)
Tuned on E85 (red lines)

Boost:

24.5psi (peak mid-range) tapering to 18psi (redline)


We tuned this car a few weeks ago and I promised the owner that I'd through it up. I want to say first that it takes a lot to impress me these days. I say this because power, quickness, etc is all relative you know

For example, our 2005 shop Evo recently put down 720whp at only 35psi on E85. That was only shakedown numbers as we're going for 900whp at 45psi and C16 when everything is said and one.

So anyway, back to the little TD04 powered car. The initial pull on my OTS map showed a really disappointing 192whp on pump gas (93 octane) at lower boost. I new we were going to need to work on this one a bit to get my normal numbers of 235-245whp that I see on most 2.0L WRXs.

Fast forward to the final number on pump gas of 252whp. We then dumped 10 gallons of E85 on top of an empty. Loaded our tweaked pump gas map to run on E85 and we were off.

The first pull was about 260whp with little done except to scale the injectors. We then continued run after run to the final numbers seen here. This was one of the stronger WRX motors I have seen and thought you might like to see it too.

The initial peaks in the torque curve is where the boost hits hard and then stabilizes.

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Old 01-30-2010, 01:11 AM   #2
Jubert69
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Soooo want E85. What IDCs were you running at peak?
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Old 01-30-2010, 01:35 AM   #3
Motion Lab Tuning
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jubert69 View Post
Soooo want E85. What IDCs were you running at peak?

Yeah it's nice because of the low cost. Down here it's the price of regular unleaded. I think they were around 80-85% IIRC on E85.
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Old 01-30-2010, 04:38 AM   #4
Arr
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is this possible for gt?
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Old 01-30-2010, 12:45 PM   #5
Motion Lab Tuning
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What exactly does the "GT" have in it? An EJ205? If so then yes. Do you have access to ethanol in Latvia?
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Old 01-30-2010, 02:36 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Motion Lab Tuning View Post
Boost:

24.5psi (peak mid-range) tapering to 18psi (redline)
18psi at redline on a stock TD04?


Usually tapers down to ~12 psi even if you run an MBC set to 15+ psi. What did you do to be able to get 18psi at redline?

Last edited by Concillian; 01-30-2010 at 05:58 PM.
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Old 01-30-2010, 03:21 PM   #7
OppositeLock
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Nice results, wish we had E85 here. What correction factor was used?
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Old 01-30-2010, 03:52 PM   #8
RedRex26
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wish we had e85 in jersey we have one station and its over an hr away from me. I bet i can make 400whp well until then i'll just have to dream.
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Old 01-30-2010, 04:31 PM   #9
scoobystas
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thats alot of foot lbs of torque for the 5spd tranny....but i want e85 too i heard it even smells nice when it burns haha.
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Old 01-30-2010, 05:16 PM   #10
bluemicamatt
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So glad to see people are experimenting with E85 and the TD04...I've been thinking about trying this, so many gas stations are selling it in the St Louis area now, and its 50 cents a gallon cheaper than 93 octane.

Definitely gonna get an E85 map with my Stage II tune.

If it works, definitely a better option for me than swapping turbos.
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Old 01-30-2010, 05:31 PM   #11
oxox55
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If you don't mind- What kind of timing and afr's are you seeing?
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Old 01-30-2010, 05:51 PM   #12
juanmedina
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u got a PM
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Old 01-30-2010, 09:04 PM   #13
Motion Lab Tuning
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Replied, Juan!

AFR were in the 12s
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Old 01-30-2010, 09:06 PM   #14
Motion Lab Tuning
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scoobystas View Post
thats alot of foot lbs of torque for the 5spd tranny....but i want e85 too i heard it even smells nice when it burns haha.

Yes smells really nice That's one fo the first things folks mention when we do the tunes.
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Old 01-30-2010, 11:48 PM   #15
Motion Lab Tuning
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluemicamatt View Post
So glad to see people are experimenting with E85 and the TD04...
No experimenting here That's how we roll at Motion Lab. Although, I'd still prefer 120 leaded octane any day of the week if it was affodable. That's the beauty of E85 though. You get a nice fuel for the price of unleaded crap gas. Can't argue with that.
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Old 01-31-2010, 08:09 AM   #16
Arr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Motion Lab Tuning View Post
What exactly does the "GT" have in it? An EJ205? If so then yes. Do you have access to ethanol in Latvia?
yeap, weve got few statoil stations with e85, its cheaper by 0.30cents than 98gas
1liter of premium gas - 1.49usd
normal - 1.44usd
disesel 1.35usd
e85- about 1.15$
vin decoder says - EJ20G

Last edited by Arr; 01-31-2010 at 08:14 AM.
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Old 01-31-2010, 10:34 AM   #17
Motion Lab Tuning
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arr View Post
yeap, weve got few statoil stations with e85, its cheaper by 0.30cents than 98gas
1liter of premium gas - 1.49usd
normal - 1.44usd
disesel 1.35usd
e85- about 1.15$
vin decoder says - EJ20G

Actually that's not a bad motor. I believe it came in a couple if different flavors. IIRC there was a closed deck 20g and an open one. No idea what you've got.

How would you tune for the difference in fuels? Are you running stand-alone EMS or piggyback? Shoot me over a PM and I may be able to be of some assistance. We've literally done over 75 unique tunes over the years between Evos and Subarus. There's a lot more to just tuning for power on ethanol that many other tuners are just staring to realize.
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Old 01-31-2010, 01:03 PM   #18
speedin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scoobystas View Post
thats alot of foot lbs of torque for the 5spd tranny....but i want e85 too i heard it even smells nice when it burns haha.
It smells great!


This is my WRX by the way. Its absolutely INCREDIBLE! The kick this thing has is wicked! Also the motor, tranny, and turbo are the stock untouched units with over 110k miles on them. Todd got all the power mods, really dont have many mods in terms of power, just the right ones . Really I think the only power mod he forgot was a gutted WRX up-pipe. But thats it! Here are some vids and photos.....







Dyno vid


Last edited by speedin; 01-31-2010 at 01:18 PM.
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Old 01-31-2010, 06:38 PM   #19
Sean2.5Black
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Wow, I wish you guys lived closer to me...

I need a pp6 tune + I just got 800cc injectors + I need that UEGO!

Some bad ass numbers you guys put up there.
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Old 02-01-2010, 12:32 AM   #20
Motion Lab Tuning
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean2.5Black View Post
Wow, I wish you guys lived closer to me...

I need a pp6 tune + I just got 800cc injectors + I need that UEGO!

Some bad ass numbers you guys put up there.

Thanks Sean. Wish you were closer this way to the "right" coast
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Old 02-01-2010, 01:01 AM   #21
juanmedina
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Concillian View Post
18psi at redline on a stock TD04?


Usually tapers down to ~12 psi even if you run an MBC set to 15+ psi. What did you do to be able to get 18psi at redline?
Can you guys answer this question? .. is it the EBC ?
What is the redline set at?
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Old 02-01-2010, 01:07 AM   #22
speedin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juanmedina View Post
Can you guys answer this question? .. is it the EBC ?
What is the redline set at?
Factory EBC with a different pill from Subaru. Redline is like 7300 0r 7200.
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Old 02-01-2010, 01:11 AM   #23
Motion Lab Tuning
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Yeah that's right, Mark decided to go the boost 'pill' route. Works ok but our 3-port BCS would've been considerably better
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Old 02-01-2010, 04:18 AM   #24
Concillian
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speedin View Post
Factory EBC with a different pill from Subaru. Redline is like 7300 0r 7200.
That doesn't get you 18psi at redline in a normal setup.

If you put a ball / spring style MBC there's NOTHING pushing on the wastegate to open it. And in that situation, the TD04 normally still only holds 12-14ish PSI @ redline in every setup I've ever seen. It simply runs out of breath. You can't make the turbo give boost there with boost control. It's like someone posting a 10.x 1/4mile timeslip with a stock STi and then saying they were able to go faster than every other STi by cutting the stop on on their gas pedal so they could push it down further than anyone else... it just doesn't work like that.

I just don't believe that 18psi @ redline from a normal WRX TD04 happens just with boost control. I've seen too many counter examples to believe you just cranked the boost and got 18. Are you positive your gauge is reading correct?

Last edited by Concillian; 02-01-2010 at 04:34 AM.
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Old 02-01-2010, 05:38 AM   #25
KP
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^I was thinking the same thing. The graph looks like it's a correction factor change. I believe a little more torque and maybe a slight spool increase can be had from E85 and a td04. But like a few have said before the turbo just runs out of breath. I guess some extra timing could help a little for the top end, but the turbo only moves so much air.
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