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Old 02-01-2010, 07:19 PM   #1
burtonsnowman
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Default 2000 EJ25 SOHC heads/EJ22T block hybrid - compatibility issues? Which parts to use?

I have a 2000 Outback. The HG just blew and destroyed my heads. So...as long as I have to pull the engine to do a ton of work, I was thinking...LET'S GIVE THIS THING SOME BOOST! As a general goal, I'd like to shoot for at least 200 AWHP...nothing too ridiculous - just some extra ponies to make this car a little more fun.

I want to snag a 22T block (could I use the 22 N/A? I haven't heard much about this) and use 2.5 SOHC heads/intake so I can keep my stock wiring setup. Will I have compatibility issues with this combo (physically, or it it pretty much plug and play?

I realize this leaves me with a very low compression ratio, so...do I get custom pistons to alleviate this? I'd like to get my CR somewhere around 8.0-8.5, I think. Does this sound right?

What crank/rods do I use? Engine management?

What other things do I need to worry about?

This car isn't currently my daily driver, so I'm not in a HUGE hurry to put the whole thing together. With that said, I'm hoping to find some used parts and cheap deals...
what kind of advice can you guys give me?
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Last edited by burtonsnowman; 02-01-2010 at 07:30 PM.
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Old 02-01-2010, 07:47 PM   #2
hustleshark206
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For those power levels I think the EJ22T bottom end should be just fine. Depending on a compression check you could bolt those heads straight to the block. If you need to rebuild the shorty then get new bearings (ACL or Cossi) and Piston rings. New oil pump and water pump along with timing assembly (depending on condition). Of coarse all new seals and gaskets too.

Since those heads are designed to run N/A you may have to do some machine work for turbo oil and water return. I had to drill and tap my EJ25D DOHC heads to work with a turbo but there were existing bosses already on the heads. I am not sure about the SOHC though. I DO know that you can get some nice cam grinds for cheap with those heads since valve lash is not an issue. Talk to Delta cams and they will set you up.

In terms of engine management you will be able to retain your stock ECU because you are using the same heads that are currenly in your car. Swap over all the sensors from your EJ25 shory and you should be good to go. Make sure you have the 6 trigger crank sprocket and not the newer one with a million triggers

I could possible help you out later with the compression #'s and such but I know for a fact that the setup will work very well because I know people who have done it with great success.

Anything Else?

Edit: You will have to get a rising rate fuel pressure regulator. Check out Aeromotives stuff or OEM if want to save monies.
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Old 02-02-2010, 05:53 AM   #3
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you could do with ej205 completely stock
to achieve your power goals. not to mention
easier on your wallet..

engine management..usdm did not have turbo model for that year?
try to find link drop in board..

ej22t and ej22e not the same by any means except
bore & stroke..
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Old 02-03-2010, 05:42 PM   #4
burtonsnowman
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Hustle - could you point me in the direction of some of these people who have built this motor?
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Old 02-03-2010, 05:44 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaxscuby View Post
you could do with ej205 completely stock
to achieve your power goals. not to mention
easier on your wallet..

engine management..usdm did not have turbo model for that year?
try to find link drop in board..

ej22t and ej22e not the same by any means except
bore & stroke..
I don't want an EJ205. I'd have to completely rewire the car. that's the idea behind using the heads/intake designed for my car.


Any other suggestions, guys?
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Old 02-03-2010, 06:38 PM   #6
hustleshark206
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Quote:
Originally Posted by burtonsnowman View Post
Hustle - could you point me in the direction of some of these people who have built this motor?
Pm'ed
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Old 02-03-2010, 06:44 PM   #7
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Engine management will be your main obstacle , Don't forget you'll need a turbo crossmember , exhaust & misc what nots
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Old 02-04-2010, 01:15 AM   #8
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just be sure to use a 040" head gasket or thicker. Factory STi headgaskets are too thin and will result in 0.005" piston to head clearance. This means that eventually, the pistons and heads will touch. Trust me on this one... I learned the hard way about 7 years ago.

Just want to add that all the hype about the EJ22T being strong is false. The rods are the same as a regular wrx, the pistons are HUGE and heavy, the crank is standard phase 1 2L. The only thing about this motor that makes it strong is the closed deck block and even that isn't that big of a deal.

I will say that the 2.2L engine is fun to drive with a compression ratio around 8.5:1. I'm pretty certain however, that if you just drop the SOHC heads on the 22T block your compression ration is around 7.8:1.

I had a 2.2 in my BG5 wagon with a VF43 and it was a riot. That is a perfect match of turbo and displacement. Nothing like throwing a 94 legacy wagon sideways at will from shear torque.
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Old 02-04-2010, 09:31 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sense of nature View Post
Engine management will be your main obstacle , Don't forget you'll need a turbo crossmember , exhaust & misc what nots
this is the main deal.
What are you going to use to control and run the setup? If you have NOTHING to do that, then it makes it tough.

If we where like Honda's.... running distributors, it'd be SO EASY! Adjust timing, add adjustable Fuel pressure reg or injectors, better fuel and boost!

...but sorry you aint a Honda......

I'd just find a replacement motor.

Soo you're looking at pistons, that's gonna be about $500 right there. Might as well put in NEW bearings ($170) while you're at it with the EJ22T. You can get STi rods too ($50-200 depending who you buy from). Don't forget headgaskets ($100), and misc o-rings ($20). Time to look for an engine management, Greddy E-manage? That with the ignition, fuel, boost control... up to $1000 right there, maybe you should have just did a WRX harness swap, then you can have it tuned by the handful of tuners out there who know the system well. You're gonna have to find someone who knows Greddy e-manage stuff, but I'm sure the tuners can figure it out. Lets see...VF39 $300 (since many raves about how cheap you can get them, but then you have to find another when it dies bcuz you can't rebuild them). Intercooler.... go custom for your intake manifold or pick up a 04-07 FXT or '06/07 WRX ($50-$150 depending who sells it). Time to get custom DP, unless you want to run one that's made for stock location ($100-$300). Did we forget fuel???

How much are we at now? We're around $2400 now...

Never cut corners when you're working with an ENGINE.




This is my engine. This is a little over $5000, which is parts and machine work. Installation is my part. Consist of built internals, balanced&clearance checked, large oil pump, '06 AVCS WRX heads, EJ22T block, etc.
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Old 02-04-2010, 03:04 PM   #10
hustleshark206
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FuJi K View Post
this is the main deal.
What are you going to use to control and run the setup? If you have NOTHING to do that, then it makes it tough.

If we where like Honda's.... running distributors, it'd be SO EASY! Adjust timing, add adjustable Fuel pressure reg or injectors, better fuel and boost!

...but sorry you aint a Honda......

I'd just find a replacement motor.

Soo you're looking at pistons, that's gonna be about $500 right there. Might as well put in NEW bearings ($170) while you're at it with the EJ22T. You can get STi rods too ($50-200 depending who you buy from). Don't forget headgaskets ($100), and misc o-rings ($20). Time to look for an engine management, Greddy E-manage? That with the ignition, fuel, boost control... up to $1000 right there, maybe you should have just did a WRX harness swap, then you can have it tuned by the handful of tuners out there who know the system well. You're gonna have to find someone who knows Greddy e-manage stuff, but I'm sure the tuners can figure it out. Lets see...VF39 $300 (since many raves about how cheap you can get them, but then you have to find another when it dies bcuz you can't rebuild them). Intercooler.... go custom for your intake manifold or pick up a 04-07 FXT or '06/07 WRX ($50-$150 depending who sells it). Time to get custom DP, unless you want to run one that's made for stock location ($100-$300). Did we forget fuel???

How much are we at now? We're around $2400 now...

Never cut corners when you're working with an ENGINE.




This is my engine. This is a little over $5000, which is parts and machine work. Installation is my part. Consist of built internals, balanced&clearance checked, large oil pump, '06 AVCS WRX heads, EJ22T block, etc.

For the power levels he wants I don't think he would need forged internals. For 200 AWHP don't you think he could just use the stock EJ22t bottom end? As far as engine management you would have to run a piggy back at the very least to be able to handle boost. Don't underestimate how many parts it takes to convert a N/A car to turbo. Everytime you turn around you find something else that needs to be replaced/swapped with turbo parts. It takes a lot of time and resources to get the right parts and then you have to put everything together as well. Take it from me it is A LOT of work and $$. Even with the wiring it may be cheaper and easier just to do a turbo swap. Trust me, hand building a hybrid IS NOT cheaper then a regular swap. Hell you can get a brand new STI shorblock for $1700 or something.

You can check out my thread if you want a better idea of what is involved before you dive in.

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1731749

Best of luck
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Old 02-04-2010, 03:10 PM   #11
hustleshark206
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By the way I love your engine stand fuji!!

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Old 02-04-2010, 03:18 PM   #12
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I just re-read this thread.

For only 200wheel, I'd just put a stock 2.5 back in it and add 4psi of boost to it with a small cam upgrade. Cams give you 20hp over stock as it is. Cams with 4psi of boost and no I/C will put you well over 200whp, still be reliable and fun.

Bring the car out here and we can figure it out for you.
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Old 02-04-2010, 03:34 PM   #13
FuJi K
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hustleshark206 View Post
By the way I love your engine stand fuji!!
I tell you....I build my motors GROUND UP!!!! I put together my shortblock in my bedroom.
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Old 02-11-2010, 01:52 AM   #14
burtonsnowman
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So...I found a pretty good deal on a running EJ22T COMPLETE longblock.
I kinda want to scavenge what I can off it and do the Frankenbuild...

What parts should I find to accommodate this procedure?
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Old 02-11-2010, 02:43 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxwell Power View Post
I just re-read this thread.

For only 200wheel, I'd just put a stock 2.5 back in it and add 4psi of boost to it with a small cam upgrade. Cams give you 20hp over stock as it is. Cams with 4psi of boost and no I/C will put you well over 200whp, still be reliable and fun.

Bring the car out here and we can figure it out for you.
Interesting. How much power can the stock EJ25 DOHC/SOHC blocks handle/put down w/stock components on a mustang dyno?

Curious about what you said regarding the EJ22T which was said to be able to take a beating with the stock internals. I forget the person that did one of the first write-ups on the engine, but he pushed something like 26-28psi daily with a new old stock EJ22T shortblock and EJ25 DOHC heads. He even took the block on a trial basis and pushed it to 30-35+ psi and it had no issues at all on a used block which was used in the testing to decide what block he wanted to purchase new.

My opinion or .02 on the EJ22T=

-Holds its re-sale value. If one decides to ditch it for something else, they will never lose what they paid unless they really paid up the wall) These block cases/halves are literally indestructable unlike other Suby Blocks, especially the newer USDM stuff, but also a lot of older JDM stuff.

-Gives a massive building base if one is to ever progress with the engine and make it into some more built and tough.

-In Stock form, it can take a beating/be pushed hard and big time boost applied in spite the parts are literally the same as you mentioned w/exception of the funky piston design.

-Adds more off boost torque than a 2.0L will.

-Maintains the smoothness and excellent bandwidth of the 2.0L.


I think there's pros/cons with all this stuff and in the end, one has to start looking at transmissions especially with the OP talking Frankenstein build now

Last edited by Audioexcels; 02-11-2010 at 03:29 AM.
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Old 02-11-2010, 02:04 PM   #16
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The EJ22T heads don't flow well at all. You're better off with your sohc heads.
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Old 02-11-2010, 08:40 PM   #17
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Okay. Let's simplify this.

- EJ22T block/internals.
- SOHC heads.
This is the combination I'm set on.

What else do I need to take into concern for this build? and...
HAS ANYONE BUILT THIS COMBO BEFORE? (I can't seem to find anyone that has)
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Old 02-11-2010, 09:06 PM   #18
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Find a 1990-94 NA block. (often free) Buy some wiseco pistons. Use stock rods and crank (NA is same as turbo).

New bearings.
2.5 head gaskets.

So your cost is only the pistons, machine work and bearings. $800ish....

The trouble with the stock pistons if you knock (often happens with an NA ecu) you will lose the turbo piston ringland.... Been there, done that a few times.....

The NA block is plenty stout. I have done 300 whp on them.
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Old 02-12-2010, 12:12 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by reddevil View Post
Find a 1990-94 NA block. (often free) Buy some wiseco pistons. Use stock rods and crank (NA is same as turbo).

New bearings.
2.5 head gaskets.

So your cost is only the pistons, machine work and bearings. $800ish....

The trouble with the stock pistons if you knock (often happens with an NA ecu) you will lose the turbo piston ringland.... Been there, done that a few times.....

The NA block is plenty stout. I have done 300 whp on them.
What is usually the cost to have the machine work done? Wouldn't he want to have his heads cleaned/machined as well?
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Old 02-12-2010, 01:03 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by burtonsnowman View Post
Okay. Let's simplify this.

- EJ22T block/internals.
- SOHC heads.
This is the combination I'm set on.

What else do I need to take into concern for this build? and...
HAS ANYONE BUILT THIS COMBO BEFORE? (I can't seem to find anyone that has)
yeah, lots.

I'm one of them.

I gave you my advice about it earlier in the thread.
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Old 02-12-2010, 01:44 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxwell Power View Post
yeah, lots.

I'm one of them.

I gave you my advice about it earlier in the thread.
Thanks a ton, btw.

Anyone else?

How about running it with the lower CR (STi rods for strength) and throwing some more boost at it? Lower CR, high boost... ??
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Old 02-12-2010, 01:59 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by Audioexcels View Post
What is usually the cost to have the machine work done? Wouldn't he want to have his heads cleaned/machined as well?
Of course he should, but he didnt give a budget.....
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