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Old 02-04-2010, 09:36 AM   #1
REX8
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Default At $46k, anyone liking the new S4?

Or does the 335 create a problem? Both priced at $50k equally equipped, with the S4 having just performance options.

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...mparison_tests
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Old 02-04-2010, 09:43 AM   #2
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Default 2010 Audi S4 vs. 2009 BMW 335i - Comparison Tests

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All the sports-sedan action is below a $50,000 base price, we’re told by Audi’s marketers. Think of it as the Hugo Boss class of cars, where respected labels adorn quality goods that look swish but still fall within a stretch for wage earners. Go over 50 large and a psychological trigger trips. That’s the realm of the luxury seeker, a rare air where sporty drivers don’t dwell en masse. Even in normal times, go above $50,000 and the dealership traffic trickles.

Audi’s old S4 sedan, last seen in 2008, flew over that ceiling. It started at $51,085 and chased BMW’s somewhat pricier M3—indeed, caught and passed the E46 iteration in our May 2003 comparo—with a 340-hp, 4.2-liter V-8 and a suspension that loved to sprint. “A big V-8 changes everything,” we wrote in 2003. Audi’s eight-cylinder was indeed a rumbling, tach-twisting revelation in its size class. We loved it and will miss it now that Audi has rebooted the S4 with a smaller engine.

A 3.0-liter V-6 is now underhood, pumped to 333 horsepower with a mini version of the Roots-type Eaton Twin Vortices supercharger that bulges a Corvette ZR1’s hood. From its 2008 base price, the S4 has dropped $4360, to $46,725, and Audi expects 50 percent of S4 sales to fall between the base price and $50,000, landing it right in the lion’s cage prowled by the fabulous BMW 335i, a mark upon a bench if ever there was one.

Audi is proud of its timely price cut, but the first few 2010 S4s in the U.S. were optioned to the bump stops. We took what we could get: a deli-mustard six-speed manual with the $6100 Prestige package, which includes a bang-up Bang & Olufsen stereo, keyless start, 19-inch wheels, and a few other convenience items.

It also had the $3950 Audi drive select, fitting electronically adjustable shocks and steering and a torque-vectoring rear differential with push-button settings (the diff is available by itself for $1100). We got all-leather seats ($1000; the base seat is a leather-Alcantra hybrid), blind-spot and backup help ($900), and some interior inlays ($750).
With the V-8–powered M3 starting at $56,975, the $41,125 BMW 335i with its 300-hp, twin-turbo inline-six is the S4’s new, lower-priced doppelgänger. But watch the little print.

The BMW doesn’t match the S4’s standard equipment until you add the Premium pack ($2650), the Sport pack ($2150), the Cold Weather pack ($1150), and $995 in iPod interfaces and satellite radio. We also had parking sensors ($750) and keyless access ($500).

Number overload!
We’ll boil it down: Forget the Audi’s as-tested price of $59,425 and the BMW’s $49,320 tab. This story is about how a $50,675 Audi S4 (the base price plus the performance-vital Audi drive select but minus all the nonessential luxuries we’re assiduously ignoring because we’re trained professionals) meets a $48,470 BMW 335i (base price plus all the requisite options to match the S4’s standard equipment) on virtually equal treads. Before you howl about the Audi’s higher price, recall that it also has standard all-wheel drive. [See sidebar for why we didn’t compare it with an all-wheel-drive 335i xDrive.]

Consider: Both the S4 and the 335i are four-door sedans with 3.0-liter, force-fed six-cylinders and redlines starting at 7000 rpm, and both hail from autobahn-honeycombed Germany. It’s the perfect two-car duel—a concours a deux, says a man who wears Boss. Does Audi want this bad enough? Let’s gas ’em up and see.

Any job that puts us behind the 3’s wheel as regularly as this job does is a keeper. Our preferences are well documented, and our record cannot be whitewashed: We like the little BMWs. Despite being given ample opportunity, a 3-series hasn’t lost a Car and Driver comparison test since 2004, when a 325i finished second to Charlton Heston’s Roman chariot (actually, an Infiniti G35).

Turbocharging usually means lag and lumpiness, but not here. BMW’s blown six streams its power in a silky, sateen torrent that cleaves through 60 mph in 4.9 seconds, a dead heat with the more powerful Audi. The six-speed slips into its gates like a runway model into a size 2, and the steering—oh, the steering: The forearm effort is light, but the response is immediate and the feedback no fainter than if your palms were dragging on the road.

You could drive this BMW for the entirety of a quiet commuting life and never be dissatisfied, even with the firm ride. No question, BMW crafts a smooth engine, but real power lives only in the higher registers, above 4000 rpm. Where the cocksure Audi blitzes hills in third and fourth, the BMW’s cooker demands frequent visits back to second to keep its sauce boiling.

Despite the 3’s superior skidpad performance, in harder real-world corners its Bridgestone run-flats lose their bite earlier, the razor-responsive steering dissolving into sideslip with an abrupt degeneration of control and at lower thresholds than in the Audi. At any pace exceeding 80 percent of insanity, our confidence likewise dissolved.

As we boogied over the asphalt strings that drape the mountains of Southern *California, the BMW invariably fell behind. Whether you’re steering, braking, shifting, or flooring it, the 335i is always enticing you to push harder—but in the unflappable Audi, you in fact can.

The BMW’s brakes are excellent, but time stops for no one. The 335i was new in 2007 and got a mild styling jiggle for 2009. Competitors have improved, and some aspects of the 335i—its lofty price, the coldly impersonal cockpit with its meniscus-shaped dash and slightly old-fashioned displays—never pleased everyone. Polarized sunglasses are a no-go: From the driver’s seat, the audio and climate control’s LCD readout goes dark.

The wheelbase is two inches shorter than the Audi’s, so it does not come as a startling revelation that the BMW’s back seat is less accommodating and involves more of a struggle past doors and over sills to get back there. In both cars, the trunks are spacious.

__________________________________________________ ________________________________





Warmed up by wood accents, the straight-edge interior is from another era in BMW design. A new 3-series comes in 2011.
__________________________________________________ ________________________________
With the 3-series, BMW taught the world what a proper sports sedan should be. Why should it surprise anyone that it’s getting beaten by its most earnest student
While S4s have beaten their share of Bimmers, we’ve often opined that a basic A4 is only a second-stringer. Always heavier than the comparable BMW, especially on the nose, it suffered from a less refined selection of engines and foggier controls. It had a gritty shift quality, a center console that crowded knees, a higher price for comparable equipment, and a cramped back seat.

Redesigned for 2009, the A4 and thus the 2010 S4 grow by nearly seven inches in the wheelbase and about five inches overall. The doors get farther apart as well, by a couple of inches, and with it went the knee bumping and back-seat bitching. It’s even heavier now, a piggish 4000 pounds for the new S4, with 55 percent of it on the nose to the 3620-pound BMW’s 50.8. But the unsatisfying shifter, the unrefined engines, the higher relative prices—all that’s been fixed. And if the S4 is a two-tonner now, it doesn’t feel it.

We don’t know which to applaud more, the Dunlop SP Sport Maxx GT tires or the active rear differential, which pushes one side or the other to aim the car. This active diff is so pronounced on a skidpad that it feels like four-wheel steering. Either way, the S4’s grip and path control is dazzling and convincingly outclasses the 335i.

Sometimes our instruments prove our point, sometimes not. A few S4 performance numbers are weaker, namely the skidpad and the lane change, two tests that are supposed to illuminate relative stability and handling prowess. They also sometimes accentuate a car’s greater mass to negative effect. Away from the extreme gyrations practiced in testing, however, the S4 feels more planted in corners and more forgiving when we overshoot one.

The Audi drive select gives the S4 multiple and distinct personalities, *governing throttle response, steering assist, suspension damping, and the whiz-bang rear diff’s activity. Dedicated button-pushers can tune each parameter separately in the “individual” setting using the nav screen. Everyone else will just use the dash switch to select from three preprogrammed modes: comfort, auto, and dynamic.


Though all-wheel-drive cars tend to suffer steering numbness, tire scrub and pavement pitches transmit cleanly through this new Audi’s rack. We miss the old V-8 and its big-bore bugle, but the supercharged V-6 sounds fierce enough through its quad pipes, at least from the outside, and it delivers a stouter kick at lower revs than the BMW.
The compact 3.0-liter engine, bolted longitudinally, its center point just forward of the front axle line, also has every ounce of the BMW’s refinement, chasing its 7000-rpm redline with vibe-free gusto.
__________________________________________________ ________________________________






Interior is efficient but less meticulously detailed than Audis of yore.
__________________________________________________ ________________________________
Remaining loose ends? Left legs get tired moving the S4’s weighty clutch, and compared with meticulously trimmed Audis of yore, the new interior looks phoned in. A vast ocean of cost-conscious black plastic is punctuated by droopy gauges set indifferently in a cliché of silver- and aluminum-hued accent pieces, but is still better than the BMW’s dated design.

Audi’s S4 is king, but uneasy is the head that wears a crown. A new 3-series is coming in 2011, and we don’t believe that BMW has forgotten how to learn, either
Before you start cranking out toxic verbiage about our selection process, listen to our side of it. Audi’s competitive target for this S4 is BMW’s 335i xDrive (the all-wheel-drive variant). Don’t we, by the natural laws of the universe, have to compare the AWD S4 with BMW’s AWD version of the 335i, the so-called xDrive?

We don’t. We think the 335i in rear-drive mode is the more compelling performance package. So why penalize the BMW just because the S4 only comes in all-wheel drive? The rear-drive 335i is roughly 200 pounds lighter and has better weight distribution: 50.8 percent over the front axle versus 52.1 for the AWD xDrive. When the rear-drive BMW includes the Sport package, it rides an inch closer to the ground than the xDrive, lowering the center of gravity, which improves handling and reduces weight transfer. But add that Sport package to an xDrive, and you don’t get the lowered, sport-tuned suspension.

We say this knowing the 335i xDrive is, nonetheless, a little quicker off the line, thanks to the added grip of all four wheels delivering power to the tarmac. With a durability-testing redline clutch drop, the xDrive hits 60 mph in 4.7 seconds and breaks the quarter-mile mark in 13.4, bettering the rear-drive car by 0.2 second in both instances. But if you’re still going at it at 120 mph, the rear-drive car squeaks ahead by 0.4 second at 18.0. Although the xDrive may be a hair quicker in the acceleration categories that count, the additional weight, extra body roll, and inferior weight balance of a four-wheel-drive 335i hinder the overall performance. So that is why we went with the rear-drive 335i. Plus, the rear-driver is $2000 cheaper. —K.C. Colwell

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...mparison_tests













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Old 02-04-2010, 09:43 AM   #3
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Both those cars don't really excite me. I liked the old S4, maybe an RS4 would change my mind, until then I'd buy an EVO X limited and save the rest.
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Old 02-04-2010, 09:59 AM   #4
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I'd take the S4. I think it is a better vehicle. Not to mention, everyone has a 3 series, the S line is a little more unique.
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Old 02-04-2010, 10:08 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by 4wdwrx View Post
Both those cars don't really excite me. I liked the old S4, maybe an RS4 would change my mind, until then I'd buy an EVO X limited and save the rest.
I agree on a lot of fronts. However, the older I get, the more I appreciate a "nice" car to go with my performance.

On that note, this thing is probably a pulley-swap away from RS4 power numbers, although the fender flares would be out...
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Old 02-04-2010, 10:15 AM   #6
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S4

The B8 sedan looks damn good.
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Old 02-04-2010, 10:20 AM   #7
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too heavy. probably weighs more than an old A8. I'd rather have a ~01 S4 but they're not even high on my list
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Old 02-04-2010, 10:25 AM   #8
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I agree, for the same money or less, I would prefer a used RS4. I understand that a pulley swap would give the S4 similar power to the RS4, but I bet the older RS4 is still a more rewarding driving experience and a sharper track vehicle.
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Old 02-04-2010, 10:32 AM   #9
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I agree, for the same money or less, I would prefer a used RS4. I understand that a pulley swap would give the S4 similar power to the RS4, but I bet the older RS4 is still a more rewarding driving experience and a sharper track vehicle.
I hear the active diff in this car really changes things.
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Old 02-04-2010, 10:37 AM   #10
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Plus the 335 doesn't come with a dipstick, bonus!

Don't love Audis... RS4 would be fun but as a rule I find them overpriced and lacking character as far as German manufacturers go. Supercharged V6 is kinda meh too, they should have gone with a turbo!
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Old 02-04-2010, 10:46 AM   #11
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Supercharged V6 is kinda meh too, they should have gone with a turbo!
Having driven both supercharged and turbocharged cars, I'll take the supercharger any day. Or, better yet, supercharger for low revs plus turbocharger for high revs .
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Old 02-04-2010, 10:50 AM   #12
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Don't forget the DEPRECIATION calculation. Audi just does not fare well there and BMW shines as best in class. Always consider cost when sold after 3-5 years.
I suggest saving some more for an M3 or forgo some options and get M3 stripped or take to Euro delivery discount. Many dealers are discounting even these highline cars so shop hard.
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Old 02-04-2010, 10:59 AM   #13
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Plus the 335 doesn't come with a dipstick, bonus!

Don't love Audis... RS4 would be fun but as a rule I find them overpriced and lacking character as far as German manufacturers go. Supercharged V6 is kinda meh too, they should have gone with a turbo!
Right, lag is a bonus!
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Old 02-04-2010, 11:32 AM   #14
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I too prefer a turbo to a SS because I'd rather have a HP curve that was gradually increasing and wild up top than torquey and fat at the bottome like a SS. Preference.
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Old 02-04-2010, 11:47 AM   #15
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if the problems with the N54 motor (fuel pump failure, overheating) aren't fixed, then S4 all the way. both are great looking cars though.
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Old 02-04-2010, 11:53 AM   #16
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on the subject of turbo vs. super. I think it depends on what ur gonna do with the car.

DD - then its totally what you think 'feels' better
AutoX - Supercharger, instatorque, no time for spool
TimeAttack/RoadRace - Turbo, spool it up and keep it spooled.
Drag racing.....turbo, SS, nitro-methane, meth injected w/ NOS & vortex generator &185/55R15
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Old 02-04-2010, 12:03 PM   #17
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im loving it, and was really debating on getting one. for a daily driver though, my denali is alot more practical.
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Old 02-04-2010, 12:11 PM   #18
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Don't forget the DEPRECIATION calculation. Audi just does not fare well there and BMW shines as best in class. Always consider cost when sold after 3-5 years.
^^THIS

In 3-5 years the Audi will take a depreciation beat down. Not to mention, you don't want to own an Audi outside of the warranty (or really a BMW either for that matter, though they'll hold higher resale values)
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Old 02-04-2010, 12:13 PM   #19
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girl i work with has a 01 S4. Her bearing went out on the driveshaft. 50 dollar part probably...nope. have to replace teh whole driveshaft, $1500.
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Old 02-04-2010, 12:18 PM   #20
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girl i work with has a 01 S4. Her bearing went out on the driveshaft. 50 dollar part probably...nope. have to replace teh whole driveshaft, $1500.

Thats why you lease german and buy japanese !!!
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Old 02-04-2010, 12:25 PM   #21
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Thats why you lease german and buy japanese !!!
+1000

German cars are not fun to own when the warranty is up.
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Old 02-04-2010, 12:30 PM   #22
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Thats why you lease german and buy japanese !!!
I would have to agree with this statement. German vehicles are not practical when they get old and have high mileage. Parts are harder to find and expensive. But they are nice when brand new and have a warranty.
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Old 02-04-2010, 01:07 PM   #23
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Having flogged both the S5 (V8) and the S4 (V6T), I can attest that they are worth the $$, but I'd rather have & enjoy listening to the S5's v8. For the more compact crowd, the TT-S is a very fun ride as well.

The 2 ton S4 felt like a 2 ton car....a fun, slightly tossable 2 ton luxury car (the active rear diff picks up a LOT of the understeer slack when you drive the car hard enough).

But if I wanted something the size & weight of the A5/A6/S5 then thats what I would buy, not something smaller that got inflated up a size. I just don't like how the A4 got bigger & heavier. Yes the Quattro system adds weight over the BMW, but 10% weight penalty seems a bit much when the BMW AWD weight penalty is noticeably less vs. RWD

Don't care for the interior of the BMW, the Audi has better ambiance but is a bit button heavy.

And yes, I agree with the 'lease German & buy Japanese'. I know 2 people with A4's, both have had minor issues that cost $$$$ at the dealer to repair out of warranty, an A3 that decided it didnt like its camshaft, and a Mk V GTI that decided to spit out a headlight & shear off a sway bar endlink.
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Old 02-04-2010, 01:27 PM   #24
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^^THIS

In 3-5 years the Audi will take a depreciation beat down. Not to mention, you don't want to own an Audi outside of the warranty (or really a BMW either for that matter, though they'll hold higher resale values)
Yes and no, certain Audi models perform better just look at the residual for the A5 and S5. Wheras the M3 which should retain great value is not. You can easily pick up a 1 year old M3 for mid 40's with a fair number of options.

Personally the high depreciation on these cars is a bonus to me, especially the costly more mainstream vehicles. Some drop as much as 25% in the first year with 10-15% each year after that.
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Old 02-04-2010, 01:34 PM   #25
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Right, lag is a bonus!
Point taken but have you driven a 135/335/535? No lag there... they make like 400 lb-ft at 1500 rpm tuned. I just like the characteristics and potential from a turbo better. Although maybe since their turbos tend to grenade at low mileage the super will be better? I think ultimately it's more annoying than anything that cars with decent performance and decent interiors cost so much to own. 50+ grand for a car that will be worth 20 in four years... yikes.
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