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Old 02-04-2010, 08:51 AM   #1
AVANTI R5
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Default Chevrolet's Department 180 Takes A New Spin On Quality Control










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Chevy has released a video announcing the launch of a new Internet series featuring their quality control engineers from Department 180. Click here to see the short clip, which features a collection of real engineers freezing, heating, crashing cars, and performance testing their products -- and having a great time of it.

Not many of us have to worry about the winter weather freezing our cars solid, or summer's extreme heat baking them into pizza ovens, but it's good to know that Chevrolet's engineers are subjecting their vehicles to all kinds of creative testing -- all for the sake of higher quality cars. Those wacky technicians even throw in a few fake tests just for fun, so if you think those big-brained technical engineers have boring jobs, you're going to have a different opinion after watching this video!

As General Motors embraces the broad reach of interactive media, they're finding new ways to reach their target audience. As part of that, this video includes a secret code at the end, and if you use your mobile device to download a photo of the Chevy beetagg (right), you can be privy to a secret information at Chevrolet's mobile site.

You can also keep up with the video series by subscribing to Chevrolet's page at YouTube

http://www.automedia.com/cs/blogs/au...o+News+Blog%29
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Old 02-04-2010, 10:17 PM   #2
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Better idea, Have your engineers inspect the cars after they are built.


Shocking, I know.
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Old 02-05-2010, 07:29 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by Hondaslayer View Post
Better idea, Have your engineers inspect the cars after they are built.


Shocking, I know.
That's actually a really bad idea. It's much easier to correct a problem at the time of a particular assembly step. It's even easier if the design is such that the assembler can't make a mistake and any problem with the parts is immediately apparent.
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Old 02-05-2010, 07:58 AM   #4
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That's actually a really bad idea. It's much easier to correct a problem at the time of a particular assembly step. It's even easier if the design is such that the assembler can't make a mistake and any problem with the parts is immediately apparent.
Can't correct the problem until it's found

GM QC is a nightmare. I have a couple clients that work / retired from GM QC as inspectors. Constantly were told to ignore blatant defects / shoddy workmanship in the name of getting cars finished faster.

It's a shame, GM put food on the table for most of my family and now none of them own GM products.
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Old 02-05-2010, 12:33 PM   #5
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That's actually a really bad idea. It's much easier to correct a problem at the time of a particular assembly step. It's even easier if the design is such that the assembler can't make a mistake and any problem with the parts is immediately apparent.
I agree 100%. Once testing has been completed and production assumes, a well designed manufacturing operation should render regular/routine inspections nearly pointless.
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Old 02-05-2010, 05:57 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Hondaslayer View Post
Better idea, Have your engineers inspect the cars after they are built.


Shocking, I know.

My grandpa and my fiance's grandfather both worked for GM, they do have very good QC. anytime a default is found by computers or someone on the line, the entire line is stopped and an engineer comes out to inspect the problem. Not a line worker but an actual engineer.

I don't doubt that that has happend, but as far as the corvette, new camaro, Silverado, and a couple others my grandpa worked with that did not have that issue of ignoring or purposely overlooking problems

Last edited by 904scooby; 02-05-2010 at 06:39 PM.
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Old 02-05-2010, 06:26 PM   #7
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My grandpa and my fiance's grandfather both worked for GM, they do have very good QC. anytime a default is found by computers or someone on the line, the entire line is stopped and an engineer comes out to inspect the problem. Not a line worker but an actual engineer.
Saw that on one of those those Discovery channel type shows showing how awesome the Camaro factory is supposed to be.

The computer flagged it because the panel gap was too big or something, a guy came out, took a look, and let it go. And it was on TV! At least pretend to care please.
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Old 02-05-2010, 06:43 PM   #8
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Saw that on one of those those Discovery channel type shows showing how awesome the Camaro factory is supposed to be.

The computer flagged it because the panel gap was too big or something, a guy came out, took a look, and let it go. And it was on TV! At least pretend to care please.

Yes I saw that on Ultimate factory too, they will leave it as long as it is in reason. That much I can understand. if it was too far out of spec they would have taken it off the line. The thing I don't think they showed on the program though was that if it is too far out of spec then they take that car off the line and then "quarintine" it and trace back where the error could have occurred and then they find out why that machine/builder produced a part that was that far out of spec.
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Old 02-06-2010, 05:25 PM   #9
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There' s a lot of fear with line workers at GM pointing out defects to engineers. Most people are more fine to just do their work and turn the other way if it would mean getting in trouble, or holding up production. This is how things were 2 years ago at least.

Contrast that to Toyota - where every person working on the line has the abillity to stop the whole line if they find a problem. Don't know this first hand, but have heard it from a number of industry ppl.
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Old 02-06-2010, 05:35 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by drummerboy827 View Post
There' s a lot of fear with line workers at GM pointing out defects to engineers. Most people are more fine to just do their work and turn the other way if it would mean getting in trouble, or holding up production. This is how things were 2 years ago at least.

Contrast that to Toyota - where every person working on the line has the abillity to stop the whole line if they find a problem. Don't know this first hand, but have heard it from a number of industry ppl.
From the sound of trouble Toyota is in now. I don't believe they stop the line for that.
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Old 02-06-2010, 07:56 PM   #11
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Because they can tell the pedals were bad due visually...come on, be reasonble.

Toyota is going to come out of this better than before, since they are attacking the problem publicly and quickly.
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Old 02-07-2010, 08:58 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO View Post
Because they can tell the pedals were bad due visually...come on, be reasonble.

Toyota is going to come out of this better than before, since they are attacking the problem publicly and quickly.
Most persons in industry are actually shocked by how slow toyota was to address the problem. They are doing much better on the Prius issues now that they learned their lesson,
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Old 02-07-2010, 10:31 AM   #13
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Most persons in industry are actually shocked by how slow toyota was to address the problem. They are doing much better on the Prius issues now that they learned their lesson,
It all depends when they got the first no good parts. If they got them in october, as I've read several places, they moved shockingly fast to have investigated, found root cause, and had 2 fixes ready for implementation in 3 months, IMO. The design change parts I used to get, when I was a quality engineer, would often take that long for approval at plant level due to all the durability and workability testing that is required.

I used to do warranty investigations for my plant and these intermittent things were an absolute nightmare. Having a certain set of environmental conditions that you had to meet made things that much harder to recreate.
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Old 02-07-2010, 05:04 PM   #14
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It all depends when they got the first no good parts. If they got them in october, as I've read several places, they moved shockingly fast to have investigated, found root cause, and had 2 fixes ready for implementation in 3 months, IMO.
You are telling me that the only vehicles with problems are those built after October 09 delivery parts made it into the assembly line? Strange that older models are being recalled then, from years ago.

2010 prius brake faults cannot be attributed to that, nor can the floormat silliness. But if they only had CTS pedals from after October then I would say they did not do to badly.

BTW

http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-...EHeadlinesAsia
Quote:
CTS Corp. (CTS) said reports of unintended acceleration in Toyota Motor Corp. (7203.TO, TM) vehicles go back to 1999, before the components maker was even supplying the pedals that have been the focus of media reports.

The incidents and resulting recall have been a public-relations nightmare for CTS and particularly Toyota, which built its reputation by focusing on bulletproof reliability. Toyota has halted sales of eight models in the U.S., including the best-selling Camry, while the companies work on a fix.

On Thursday, CTS said the problem is related to Toyota's design, not electronic sensors that are part of the accelerator assembly as some people in the industry had speculated. Toyota has also said it didn't believe the electronics were at fault.

CTS, which began supplying the pedals to Toyota in model year 2005, said Friday it believes a slow-return-pedal phenomenon may occur under "extreme environmental conditions," but shouldn't be linked with any incidents of unintended acceleration. CTS also pointed out it isn't aware of any accidents or injuries caused by the condition.
And yes maybe those reports in 1999 were chicken littles and explained why they ignored it until recently.

Quote:
Robb said Toyota should take a cue from Johnson & Johnson's (JNJ) 1982 recall of Tylenol spiked with cyanide, which resulted in seven deaths. J&J’s response, including the introduction of tamper-resistant packaging, is considered to be a textbook example of how to handle recalls effectively.

"They saved not only their public image, but that brand," Robb said. "There are real doubts as to whether Toyota's brand, from a PR standpoint, can survive this. This has dragged on too long and there have been too many excuses."
J&J is usually cited as the example of what to do. Toyota is unlikely to be.

And more fun
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-f...2.story?page=2
Quote:
Toyota last fall blamed the episodes on floor mats that entrapped the gas pedals, leading to a massive recall. Then last week Toyota said sticking gas pedals were also causing sudden acceleration by not springing back into idle position, triggering another recall.

On Tuesday, the automaker stopped sales and production of eight models until it could remedy the problem.

Independent auto safety experts have been skeptical of Toyota's explanations, saying floor mats and sticky gas pedals can't fully explain the large number of complaints that have been mounting for the last decade, covering some of the most popular models in the company's lineup, including the Camry.
...In recent interviews, two former NHTSA administrators, Ricardo Martinez and Joan Claybrook, have said they believe that some kind of electronic glitch may be causing the Toyota problems. Similar conclusions are being drawn by independent automotive safety experts, forensic mechanics and automotive electronics researchers, as well as many consumers.
They have not done well however you want to slice it. Taking so long, then blaming floor mats, then waiting and blaming CTS, then ...? The point is you lose public trust rapidly doing that.

A better tact is to say we are investigating, there are problems found from these various sources, but we are still looking into it ...

Last edited by sxotty; 02-07-2010 at 05:17 PM.
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Old 02-07-2010, 05:15 PM   #15
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http://lagrangenews.com/bookmark/574...you-%20Toyota-
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Thank you, Toyota!
By Greg Brown, columnist
4 days ago

I am not an employee of Toyota, neither am I an investor. I am simply one of those millions of Americans’ who drive a Toyota, and am red, white and blue proud of it.

I do happen to have social networks in Alabama, Indiana, Texas, Mississippi and Kentucky who benefit from Toyota manufacturing in their states. And though I have no friends in West Virginia, I am sure there are plenty of Americans there, as well, who are proud to build Corollas and Camrys, make good salaries and pay plenty of taxes.

I not only have one Toyota, silver Camry. I have two. One of them is afflicted with the viral accelerator pedal … the deadly pedal on 2.1 million vehicles that has resulted in six (yes, six) accidents. That’s right, I said six … sechs, seis, sei, sest. Whether pronounced in German, Portuguese, Spanish or Italian, the number still denotes a five-fingered hand plus one. Even if you’re an enemy of Toyota, it’s difficult to clap with that.

I still remember where I was when I became a fan of Toyota. It was 1997 and I was tromping around in the desperate terrain of Uganda, negotiating the landscape between Kampala and “The Bush.. Riding on roads that most bicycles could not safely traverse, I saw one Toyota after another, not just surviving, but quite apparently, thriving in the bucking rodeo of Uganda’s twisted roads. How those cars and trucks survived the rising and falling slopes, the dark contorted pot holes, I will never know. I still remember my pained hips, my twisted back and bruised skull, from riding on those roads with 20 other people stuffed in a van. I wrote in a prayer journal one night, that the skeleton of a man was no match for the chassis of a Toyota truck. I asked our Ugandan translator why the only truck I seemed to see in the bush was a Toyota. Revealing the reach of Darwin, he simply said: “Survival of the fittest.”

When I came home, I told my wife that the next car I was going to buy was a Toyota. I have been faithful, and I have not been disappointed. In fact, I am not bothered a bit by this national, knee-jerk reaction. I wish the congressional committee forming to investigate would summon me. I am humored by it. Selfish human that I am, I also calculate that if the skeptics are successful, I will just get a better deal on the next Toyota I buy … a little discount, maybe.

I write this article today, because I am bothered by the media hype surrounding the recent recall. The last TV hype that matched this was two weeks ago, when a weather report from Atlanta zoomed in on snow flakes collecting on the top rail of a bridge, somewhere near Buford. I mourn, not only, for the loss of good sense in the public discourse, but for the financial injury done to good, decent, hard-working people. Like those folks who work for Toyota.

So, I want to say thank you. A hearty thank you. You guys are doing a great job. Keep doing it. All I have done in the last 14 years with my Camrys is take them in for normal service. That’s all. And the service at my Toyota dealership is so professional, so inexpensive, so dependable and so good, I would get my lawnmower and bicycle tuned up there, if I could.
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Old 02-07-2010, 10:00 PM   #16
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That "news" piece is definitely written by a moron. For his pleasure
http://www.mtbr.com/ Since he has a skewed view of what
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Old 02-07-2010, 10:06 PM   #17
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I think that was the point. Allegory for "the roads sucked".
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Old 02-07-2010, 10:25 PM   #18
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You are telling me that the only vehicles with problems are those built after October 09 delivery parts made it into the assembly line? Strange that older models are being recalled then, from years ago.

2010 prius brake faults cannot be attributed to that, nor can the floormat silliness. But if they only had CTS pedals from after October then I would say they did not do to badly.
No, I'm not telling you that only post-october vehicles are affected. I'm talking about when the engineers actually got the failed parts for investigation. If the parts take 60k miles to fail, for example, the engineers won't get any parts until several years after the vehicle is built. Most warranty issues related to wear or environmental issues are like this. You have typically already built hundreds of thousands of units with the defective part by the time you start getting parts back from the field.

Out of curiosity, in what industry do you work?
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Old 02-07-2010, 11:18 PM   #19
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Toyota, Ford, Nissan, GM, and Honda all make bad Vehicles, but for every bad one they make 50 good ones. The gap between the brands is miniscule at best. I beleive that most of the bashers are just ignorant about this and like to generalize.
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Old 02-07-2010, 11:26 PM   #20
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Toyota, Ford, Nissan, GM, and Honda all make bad Vehicles, but for every bad one they make 50 good ones. The gap between the brands is minuscule at best. I believe that most of the bashers are just ignorant about this and like to generalize.
You're right, generally. The difference if perceived quality has a lot to do with materials selection, panel gaps, trim alignment, and overall fit and finish. Any modern car or truck is light years more reliable than the best cars 10 yrs ago which were light years ahead of cars 10 yrs before that.

Its not like Chrysler just had a big recall for no AT temp sensor, or Ford having a bad brake switch that could cause an engine fire, etc, etc. The 6 accidents (which I believe are fatal accidents) are far less statistically than the Firestone Tire recall in the late 90's (130+ deaths).
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Old 02-08-2010, 01:20 AM   #21
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Default Re: Chevrolet's Department 180 Takes A New Spin On Quality Control

Even though I'm still wary of GM, it's nice to see they're trying to improve their quality.


Or at least make it seem like they are.
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Old 02-08-2010, 08:19 AM   #22
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Toyota, Ford, Nissan, GM, and Honda all make bad Vehicles, but for every bad one they make 50 good ones. The gap between the brands is miniscule at best. I beleive that most of the bashers are just ignorant about this and like to generalize.
<-- that is true. BTW to anyone look up the NHTS data if you want to see brand longevity. It won't tell you the repair costs though, just the cars makes and age.

Quote:
Originally Posted by quentinberg007 View Post
No, I'm not telling you that only post-october vehicles are affected. I'm talking about when the engineers actually got the failed parts for investigation. If the parts take 60k miles to fail, for example, the engineers won't get any parts until several years after the vehicle is built. Most warranty issues related to wear or environmental issues are like this. You have typically already built hundreds of thousands of units with the defective part by the time you start getting parts back from the field.

Out of curiosity, in what industry do you work?
You are telling me that someone told you that. Since there have been failures reported for years the management failed to give the parts to the engineers, or they missed it in the past. And I am sorry I have reasons I cannot answer your last question.
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Old 02-10-2010, 03:47 PM   #23
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Old 02-10-2010, 04:04 PM   #24
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SLOW MO!!!

buy chevy!!
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Old 02-10-2010, 06:30 PM   #25
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Ugh - this stuff just drives me nuts.

Trying to make it seem like a big deal that they do quality control, and furthermore turning it in to a cool buzz word.

I got a good taste for GM engineering/development while I was in college, and I will never work for them.
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