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Old 02-05-2010, 12:43 PM   #1
AVANTI R5
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Default Report: Next-gen Chevrolet Camaro to ride on Alpha platform, shrink in size

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We’ve already reported that the next-generation Ford Mustang will be moving down size, and a new report suggests the next Chevrolet Camaro will be making a similar move. The next-generation Camaro is expected to bow in 2014 as a 2015 model.

According to Motor Trend, General Motors has given the green light to a plan to build the next-generation Camaro on a version of the company’s upcoming Alpha platform. The rear-wheel drive Alpha platform will also underpin Cadillac’s future ATS model and is even tipped to be the foundation for the next CTS.

As the Alpha platform will underpin three separate GM models, at least two different wheelbases are expected – a shorter version for the Camaro and ATS and a longer version for the next CTS. The next Camaro’s wheelbase should stay similar to today’s car, but look for its overall length to shrink by as much as a foot. This formula should allow GM to take advantage of the CAFE “footprint” calculation for required fuel economy.

Unfortunately for V8 lovers, the Camaro’s engine bay will also be downsizing. The next-generation Camaro SS will likely ditch its V8 powerplant in favor of a turbocharged or supercharged version of GM’s 3.6L direct-injection V6. Although total horsepower will likely slide from the current SS, the next Camaro will be lighter than the current car, allowing for equal – if not better – performance.
http://www.leftlanenews.com/report-n...k-in-size.html
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Old 02-05-2010, 01:08 PM   #2
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Smaller and lighter is not bad news, though it's interesting they will (may) abandon the V8 when the Mustang just moved back up to a 5.0. Hopefully they'll address the utter lack of useful visability inside the cabin.
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Old 02-05-2010, 01:11 PM   #3
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Oh the hillbillies will be angry with this one...
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Old 02-05-2010, 01:18 PM   #4
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I wonder how long it will take the masses to realize that similar fuel economy can be obtained using an 8. *Points to Corvette*
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Old 02-05-2010, 01:27 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by im2lazy789 View Post
I wonder how long it will take the masses to realize that similar fuel economy can be obtained using an 8. *Points to Corvette*
The 2010 Camaro weighs 3,8xx lbs and the Vette weighs 3,2xx lbs.

A 600lb lighter curb weight would definitely give it better mileage assuming similar fuel consumption between the two engines. That's probably why the Vette gets better mileage, not necessarily the motor.

If they decreased the curb weight of the next gen Camaro and gave it the TT V6, it'll get decent gas mileage.
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Old 02-05-2010, 01:31 PM   #6
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Hopefully they'll address the utter lack of useful visability inside the cabin.
This! I've had this nasty car twice now as a rental, I hate it. Next time it gets assigned to me, I'm turning it in. I was more happy with my recent Nissan Versa rental than the camaro.
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Old 02-05-2010, 02:12 PM   #7
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I actually have a hard time beleiving the no V8 portion.

If this was true, then why keep the Camaro name. Will it sell like this?
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Old 02-05-2010, 02:19 PM   #8
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I actually have a hard time beleiving the no V8 portion.

If this was true, then why keep the Camaro name. Will it sell like this?
Why not make a DI V8 and 1up the Mustang? Makes sense, right?
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Old 02-05-2010, 02:22 PM   #9
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I actually have a hard time beleiving the no V8 portion.

If this was true, then why keep the Camaro name. Will it sell like this?
agreed... why not call it something else, most people i know who like these cars are because they have big 'merican V8s.
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Old 02-05-2010, 02:32 PM   #10
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So based on the date, we can probably expect to see them sometime around 2020?
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Old 02-05-2010, 02:48 PM   #11
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I can't imagine Chevy ditching the V8 for the next camero. It's is part of the Camero nameplate. They should at least offer it on a high performance model. If not, ditch the name and start a new model.
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Old 02-05-2010, 02:49 PM   #12
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I actually have a hard time beleiving the no V8 portion.

If this was true, then why keep the Camaro name. Will it sell like this?
Only reason for this that I can see is if they are going to make the car lighter and smaller, the V8's heft would put too much weight over the front wheels making a horrible weight distribution ratio. It's not like a vette where since it's only a 2 seater they can make a long hood and place the motor's main weight behind the front axle.
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Old 02-05-2010, 02:52 PM   #13
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Only reason for this that I can see is if they are going to make the car lighter and smaller, the V8's heft would put too much weight over the front wheels making a horrible weight distribution ratio. It's not like a vette where since it's only a 2 seater they can make a long hood and place the motor's main weight behind the front axle.
The LSx motors are small enough that it is very easy to place them behind the fron axles. heck it's smaller than the Nissan VQ37 and that's behind the axles on the 370Z and the G37.
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Old 02-05-2010, 02:56 PM   #14
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The 2010 Camaro weighs 3,8xx lbs and the Vette weighs 3,2xx lbs.

A 600lb lighter curb weight would definitely give it better mileage assuming similar fuel consumption between the two engines. That's probably why the Vette gets better mileage, not necessarily the motor.

If they decreased the curb weight of the next gen Camaro and gave it the TT V6, it'll get decent gas mileage.
Plus the Vette is more aerodynamic than the Camaro.
Regarding the V8 engine, maybe Chevy could take a hint from Ford and decrease the displacement of their engine while increasing specific output at the same time. Why displace 6.2L to only make 426HP? All this extra displacement is just contributing to pumping losses. Going back to a 5.7L or 5.2L and making the same 426HP out of it would already be an improvement.
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Old 02-05-2010, 02:59 PM   #15
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my guess is if they do this, Ford will need to ramp up production of the 2013 Mustang 5.0
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Old 02-05-2010, 03:06 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by BeatLA View Post
Only reason for this that I can see is if they are going to make the car lighter and smaller, the V8's heft would put too much weight over the front wheels making a horrible weight distribution ratio. It's not like a vette where since it's only a 2 seater they can make a long hood and place the motor's main weight behind the front axle.
While there is truth to this, truth be told. The turbo / supercharged v6 will probably weigh just as much as the LS series engines. I think the LS2 weighs in around 380, 390lbs dry. Also with the corvette, what helps the weight ratio is more than the engine being placed further back. It also helps when the transmission sits in the rear of the car.

If they are going to shrink the platform and cut the wheel base by a whole foot. Then why not bring back the Vega, cutting the V8 out of the Camaro isn't the answer.

Last edited by Wrxtuner251; 02-05-2010 at 03:11 PM.
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Old 02-05-2010, 03:09 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by neg_matnik View Post
Plus the Vette is more aerodynamic than the Camaro.
Regarding the V8 engine, maybe Chevy could take a hint from Ford and decrease the displacement of their engine while increasing specific output at the same time. Why displace 6.2L to only make 426HP? All this extra displacement is just contributing to pumping losses. Going back to a 5.7L or 5.2L and making the same 426HP out of it would already be an improvement.
I think that GM should be creating a 4.0L V8 for cars like this, the Cadillac lineup, the occasional Buick. You could supercharge it for a vehicle such as the Camaro. The V8 shouldnt have to die, I agree that it should be smaller.
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Old 02-05-2010, 03:13 PM   #18
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I think that GM should be creating a 4.0L V8 for cars like this, the Cadillac lineup, the occasional Buick. You could supercharge it for a vehicle such as the Camaro. The V8 shouldnt have to die, I agree that it should be smaller.
They did make a 4.0 V8 it was very problematic and FWD

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:4.0_L_V8_Aurora.jpg
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Old 02-05-2010, 03:38 PM   #19
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downsize in weight = good
downsizing 2 cylinder = meh

i doubt they will make a v6 that come close to the godly LSx
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Old 02-05-2010, 03:38 PM   #20
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While there is truth to this, truth be told. The turbo / supercharged v6 will probably weigh just as much as the LS series engines. I think the LS2 weighs in around 380, 390lbs dry. Also with the corvette, what helps the weight ratio is more than the engine being placed further back. It also helps when the transmission sits in the rear of the car.

If they are going to shrink the platform and cut the wheel base by a whole foot. Then why not bring back the Vega, cutting the V8 out of the Camaro isn't the answer.
I stand corrected, the LS is much lighter than I thought.
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Old 02-05-2010, 04:30 PM   #21
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I wonder how long it will take the masses to realize that similar fuel economy can be obtained using an 8. *Points to Corvette*
An auto Vette gets 18 mpg combined. That's not particularly impressive for a small, relatively light car with rather long gearing. GTRs and 911 Turbos get 18 mpg combined too, despite the added power, weight and AWD.
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Old 02-05-2010, 05:53 PM   #22
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This is all speculation, and this may be in part to the possibility of the Z28 coming out and still having the V8, I love the camaro. If they get the weight down and don't compromise the feel of the car I'd still be a fan.
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Old 02-05-2010, 07:49 PM   #23
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An auto Vette gets 18 mpg combined. That's not particularly impressive for a small, relatively light car with rather long gearing. GTRs and 911 Turbos get 18 mpg combined too, despite the added power, weight and AWD.
real world driving by those who own the Vette with a manual transmission typically get 30+ mpg. Most extreme case was a guy at a gas station who averaged 34 on his trip from Columbus, OH to WGI, sticking to back roads around the Finger Lakes.

The point I was trying to make is that no matter how many cylinders, or what size engine, it still requires the same amount of power to haul the same weight and body (power requirement to overcome drag) regardless of engine size, i.e. a V8 can make as few ponies and burn as little fuel as a 4 cylinder that is working at a greater percentage of it's total output. V8's in general have greater frictional losses than smaller engines as there are more moving parts in them, but they work much less hard. The Corvette for example lopes around at 1100-1200 all day at 60 and uses very little fuel considering its max output, a V6 would spin closer to 2100 and a 4 banger closer to 2700.

I love the idea of turbocharged engines, but, we have to remember that the when not in use, those turbos do make the engine work harder due to increased back pressure. Then, when they are summoned they use just as much fuel, if not more, than a larger NA engine due to power requirements.
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Old 02-05-2010, 07:57 PM   #24
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real world driving by those who own the Vette with a manual transmission typically get 30+ mpg. Most extreme case was a guy at a gas station who averaged 34 on his trip from Columbus, OH to WGI, sticking to back roads around the Finger Lakes.
Well, you're ignoring three other variables here - aerodynamics, weight and gearing - all which have a great effect on fuel economy. If you take a look at some of the other cars with LSx engines, none of them get what I'd consider fantastic fuel mileage. What's a G8 average? Low 20s MPGs? Camaro? Pretty close to that as well?

Sure, those guys are getting 30 mpg, but that's a highway cruise in sixth gear(overdrive) at 60 mph and they're certainly not driving the car hard.
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Old 02-05-2010, 08:37 PM   #25
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I actually have a hard time beleiving the no V8 portion.

If this was true, then why keep the Camaro name. Will it sell like this?
History means all but nothing to GM at this point, so don't expect that they will care about this either. They have made a total mockery of what "Super Sport" means with cars like the W body Impala SS or a Cobalt SS, so don't expect them to keep the fast Camaro names like Z28, IROC-Z or SS paired with a V8.

CAFE standards and gas-guzzler taxes have also been slowly neutering the US auto industry.
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