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Old 02-10-2010, 01:46 PM   #1
Ferg
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Default IndyCar goes full-on Buck Rodgers

or maybe Duck Dodgers ....

the Delta Wing 2012 IndyCar proposal. Not a joke I swear.



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Old 02-10-2010, 01:48 PM   #2
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TwitPic from the launch mere moments ago ...

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Old 02-10-2010, 01:51 PM   #3
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Looks at profile...interesting
Looks down further...barfs...laughs...cries
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Old 02-10-2010, 01:58 PM   #4
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sadly the Deltawing seems to have some serious backing from the higher ups in IndyCar...which confirms they all have a death wish for the series...

I really like the Swift proposal with it's semi-exposed engine and shiny lights telling you what the driver is doing.



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Old 02-10-2010, 02:02 PM   #5
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That is the most ridiculously phallic race car in history. I see why Milka and Danica are leaving. Can you imagine the hilarity if one of them gets rear ended in the short chute by one of those things?
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Old 02-10-2010, 02:07 PM   #6
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Old 02-10-2010, 02:18 PM   #7
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Key Specifications (estimated)
Weight with driver: 1,030 lbs.
Horsepower: 300 BHP
Wheel base: 125 inches
Front track: 24 inches
Rear track: 70 inches
Aerodynamic drag: Cd 0.24
Key Technical features
Engine and transmission are “non-stressed members” of the chassis structural design which allows teams to install a wide variety of lightweight powertrains
The prototype will feature a 4 cylinder turbo charged engine that will produce approximately 300 horsepower at 7,000 rpm and weigh only 160lbs fully dressed
Engine capacity, RPM and configuration freedoms are anticipated given only that the rate of fuel delivery to the engine will be controlled by a specially developed fuel flow rate control unit
Vehicle weight distribution is necessarily more rearward than traditionally seen with 72.5% of the mass on the larger rear tires
80% of the aerodynamic downforce acts on the rear of the car
Inline traction under acceleration through the rear tires is greatly enhanced by rearward weight and aerodynamic distributions
Unique amongst today’s racing cars 60% of braking force is generated behind the center of gravity giving a dynamically stable response
Locking propensity of the inside front wheel on corner entry is greatly reduced
Transmission features 6 speed oval and 5 speed plus reverse road track configurations with sequential paddle shift actuation
Differential features full torque vectoring active technology with driver control of gain for balance adjustment. “Active stagger” removes the expensive necessity for staggered rear tire diameters for ovals
Advanced computer modeling of structures, impact energy management, aerodynamics, vehicle dynamics and tires has been used to develop the virtual DeltaWing car
The car’s performance has been simulated on each configuration of race track encountered during the IZOD IndyCar Series Championship
Modern advanced materials and CNC construction techniques applied to achieve gains in light weight structures and occupant safety
Driver position, restraint layout and energy absorbency facility designed with the latest data on survival criteria
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Old 02-10-2010, 02:22 PM   #8
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those indy cars look to have horrible turn in.
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Old 02-10-2010, 02:27 PM   #9
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i dunno how this thing is supposed to turn with such a small front track width and narrow front tires. last I checked μ related traction force to wheel load. less track width > less lever arm for the moment about the CG that loads the tire during cornering > less rotation
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Old 02-10-2010, 03:10 PM   #10
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I guess we know now why Tony George left (fired whatever). As stupid as he is and as much as I dislike him.... He saw that the marketing department was taking over and decided things were not going to go well.

The swift concept is an interesting one... this "rocket" car is a joke.
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Old 02-10-2010, 03:13 PM   #11
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I think I'm mostly surprised with how damn big it is. 125" wheelbase and 70" rear track? So we're talking 82-85" total rear width. I have no idea how wide a current Dallara is, but I guess I was thinking the car would be smaller, since they were discussing such lower weights. Basically, I was anticipating some radical delta wing shape in a F3 sized packaged.

I like the idea of smaller engines, especially if they work around the 2L world engine concept. There is no reason why half a dozen manufactures couldn't have a common engine base for rally, touring, lmp2, open wheels etc. Play with fuel rates, or rev limiters and restrictors to get to a power level for each class.

Interesting concepts for the IRL.

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Old 02-10-2010, 03:41 PM   #12
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love it or hate it you have to admit that you'd watch just to see what the heck would happen to one of these things when it tries to turn.
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Old 02-10-2010, 03:43 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turn in Concepts View Post
love it or hate it you have to admit that you'd watch just to see what the heck would happen to one of these things when it tries to turn.
admitted.

but seriously, hows it gonna do it? doesnt look like it can lean. maybe it'll have attitude adjustment thrusters or something.
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Old 02-10-2010, 03:57 PM   #14
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this reminds me of making 'hybrids' with GT2 back in the '90s for some reason ...

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Old 02-10-2010, 04:00 PM   #15
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the rear of the future IRL is OK. teh front sucks. The Swift batmobile is pretty cool. IRL will drop the ball, hopefully ALMS can pick up some viewers if this proposal goes thru.
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Old 02-10-2010, 04:08 PM   #16
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the 'IRL' is dead ... it's been called 'IndyCar' for some time now. Keep up people
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Old 02-10-2010, 04:09 PM   #17
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I think i get how it turns now.
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Old 02-10-2010, 04:28 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferg View Post
the 'IRL' is dead ... it's been called 'IndyCar' for some time now. Keep up people
I honestly never noticed the shift
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Old 02-10-2010, 04:28 PM   #19
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I don't know why they decided "lets make everything look ****ing ridiculous" as a design decision. I don't think I would watch it if the cars are 12 feet long dicks ramming into each other. Does the fire extinguisher spray out the front too?

I hope whatever wins is an actual design made to compete on a track and not done by some 5 year old based on a hot wheel car.
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Old 02-10-2010, 06:15 PM   #20
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Dear IndyCar,
Call up Adrian Reynard, pull out any of his chassis' from 99-01, modernize for crash standards and drop in a 2L turbo motor and stop with this madness that looks like a 70's land speed vehicle.
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Old 02-10-2010, 06:34 PM   #21
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makes the swift proposal look pretty sane
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Old 02-10-2010, 06:50 PM   #22
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Quote:
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I guess we know now why Tony George left (fired whatever). As stupid as he is and as much as I dislike him.... He saw that the marketing department was taking over and decided things were not going to go well.
The thing is, this "Delta Wing" project is a project put forth by owners, and not the Indy Racing League (IRL) - the sanctioning body which handles the IndyCar series.

The IndyCar officials kept pushing back the chassis-change because new cars = new $ for the teams to spend, and in this economy they felt like it was easier to stay with the "current" chassis that didn't force everyone to buy new stuff.

(We will ignore for a moment the fact that a new car + KEEPING the old car legal puts used cars on the market, allowing smaller teams to buy in at a cheaper cost, and why they wouldn't do this is beyond me.)

So anyway.. With the IndyCar officials stalling, some of the owners - headed up by Chip Ganassi, get together to pave the way for the next generation IndyCar, becuase they think it will be in their best interest. This group is called "The Delta Wing" and Ganassi engineer Ben Bowlby (former designer for Lola) is the car designer.

They tell the IndyCar guys what's up - and off to work they go on a lower-cost, more efficient 21st-century Indycar. They work on it for about a year.

Right before the Delta Wing is supposed to make its public view, the folks in the Indy Car officies go to Lola, Dallara, etc and ask them to pen the next generation IndyCar - to submit designs.

Now.. the reasons for this are not clear.

It could be that IndyCar officials see good things in competition, and they figure if there is more than one company designing cars/submitting bids, that things will be even cheaper/better/cooler etc.

Some of the media feels that this was a ploy by the IndyCar/Speedway people to undermine the owners, to pull the rug out from under them as they were about to launch.

This is where we get into the sticky history..

1979, car owners, unhappy with how USAC (then the sanctioning body) is handling IndyCar racing. Dan Gurney publishes a "white paper" on the matter, and when it goes unanswered, The sport of IndyCar owners is split.

That's right, 31 years ago IndyCar racing split over differences between the sanctioning body running things and what the car owners felt was best.

The owners formed CART - Championship Auto Racing Teams and started a series.. but they were not stupid enough to split the Indy 500, so they left the month of May clear, and for the next 12-13 years the Indy 500 was a USAC IndyCar race, not included in the CART World Series.

In the early 90's CART started awarding points for the Indy 500, but it was still a USAC event.

Then that whole owners v. sanction thing showed up again. Rumors had the owners talking about boycotting the 500 if they didn't get a % of the gate. Tony George wanted a seat on the board at CART, but as a track owner and not car owner, he didn't have the ability to get a voting seat. (Though other owners, noteably Penske, did have an interest in tracks on the series AND a voting seat.)

Depending on what view you take (Bad Tony vs. Good Tony) Tony either:

a) Took his ball (track) and left because he couldn't get his way and wanted more power.

or..

b) Saw that owners running a series was a bad thing and decided to go back and correct the whole 1979 issue.. make a seires that focused on a "stronger" sanction that wasn't beholden to owners. (NASCAR model)


Either way.. you had "The Split, Part II" and the IRL was formed. In 1996, IndyCar split again.

This time the owners group WAS stupid enough to put an event on top of the Indy 500, and act like it didn't exist and they would be ok without it.

They were wrong.

NASCAR had a huge stronghold at that point, the media was on the "bash Tony" side and IndyCar racing took public relations hits that will be hard - if not impossible - to recover from.

Eventually, CART/ChampCar, fizzles.. turns out without the Indy 500 as a keystone, that whole "owners running the show" thing doesn't work. So CART/ChampCar folds, and everyone is under a big umbrella again in 2008-2009.

So now.. we sit here with the owners doing something again, to benefit themselves, (delta wing) and the sanction not giving it a huge amount of attention.

But the Delta Wing represents the CART/Champcar side of this war.

For those of you complaining about how bad IndyCar is, why Tony left, etc.. I will say it again. - The Delta Wing represents the CART/Champcar side of this war.

So the IndyCar officials sort of ignore it and have other constructors draw up plans, this is probably a "no, we will not give you guys (the owners) that much power."

Or they saw the sketches, and said "holy ____" that thing is so fugly/odd everyone is going to flip, we need to do something and save the cars.

Who knows.. but the "good" designs are actually IndyCar "backed" and the Delta wing, the thing above - is an owner thing.

The question is.. are we about to see "The Split Part III"?



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Old 02-10-2010, 07:31 PM   #23
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No, we won't see another split, because IRL wasn't sunshine and butterflies either when ChampCar died. The thing which killed CART was the pushing around of engine rules, which meant that the engine manufactuers went to IRL (although thats fizzled out pretty quicly too.) Both series were seriously struggling. Having a penis inspired car will not help anything, and the other designs I've seen so far look retarded too.
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Old 02-10-2010, 07:38 PM   #24
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No, we won't see another split, because IRL wasn't sunshine and butterflies either when ChampCar died. The thing which killed CART was the pushing around of engine rules, which meant that the engine manufactuers went to IRL (although thats fizzled out pretty quicly too.) Both series were seriously struggling. Having a penis inspired car will not help anything, and the other designs I've seen so far look retarded too.
Yea, the split question was a rhetorical one.. I don't think anyone is stupid enough to go through that again.

The penis car won't work because, well.. just look at the reactions here.

I actually like the exposed-engine Lola concepts..


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Old 02-10-2010, 07:57 PM   #25
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Wasn't that Swift with the exposed engine? I think they'll have to put plexiglass or something over it, while thats a cool concept for looking at it, it won't work at all in the real world.
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