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Old 02-12-2010, 01:46 PM   #1
garageGT
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Default How to lose power with an intercooler upgrade

oversized intercooler core with a factory turbo is your solution

http://garagegtlinks.blogspot.com/20...er-choice.html
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Old 02-12-2010, 01:49 PM   #2
classicaddict
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nice looking intercooler setup tho....save the fact they handed a blind man a can of spray paint and said "have at it!"
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Old 02-12-2010, 01:55 PM   #3
garageGT
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nice looking intercooler setup tho....save the fact they handed a blind man a can of spray paint and said "have at it!"
paint job is not too bad compared to sizing ! that core is for a 42R turbo
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Old 02-12-2010, 01:58 PM   #4
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damn thats a big pressure drop!!
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Old 02-12-2010, 02:00 PM   #5
meccjoo
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wow 6-7 psi drop???
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Old 02-12-2010, 02:03 PM   #6
garageGT
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^ yep we couldnt see more than 16psi at the intake manifold..turbo was at 22-23psi range..
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Old 02-12-2010, 02:31 PM   #7
hobbesnapoli
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Could be a garbage intercooler too- no idea on the brand?
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Old 02-12-2010, 02:49 PM   #8
Brother EddieJ.
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dude that sucks
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Old 02-12-2010, 03:00 PM   #9
garageGT
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Could be a garbage intercooler too- no idea on the brand?
The core is high quality, but the endtanks were chopped for new & smaller piping..This is a serious intercooler, but on the wrong car..
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Old 02-12-2010, 03:09 PM   #10
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what were the size of the intercooler pipes?
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Old 02-12-2010, 03:29 PM   #11
garageGT
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what were the size of the intercooler pipes?
no idea what the size was before chopping..

core has 2" in/out piping to match the turbo discharge & help with throttle response, and a stepper hose to go into the 2 3/4" TB
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Old 02-12-2010, 03:32 PM   #12
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Holy chit man. Hasnt anyone noticed WTF is going on at 4000RPM????

Its probably bad that what ever is happening is literally ocurring right at peak torque.
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Old 02-12-2010, 03:33 PM   #13
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Not all IC's are the same. You say its a high quality core but you have no idea who made it...
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Old 02-12-2010, 03:45 PM   #14
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Holy chit man. Hasnt anyone noticed WTF is going on at 4000RPM????

Its probably bad that what ever is happening is literally ocurring right at peak torque.

needs avcs tune which will happen with the new FMIC kit we will install for him..
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Old 02-12-2010, 03:54 PM   #15
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Not all IC's are the same. You say its a high quality core but you have no idea who made it...
Yes all cores have different efficiency.

the point is the size choice of the core here..I would install this along with a GT4288R but not with the OE turbo.

I know who installed it, but no idea who made it..has cast endtanks..
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Old 02-12-2010, 04:20 PM   #16
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Increasing the size of the intercooler should not have affected peak horsepower in a negative way. By looking at the results, the end tanks and/or core must have been extremely restrictive causing the loss in peak power.
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Old 02-12-2010, 05:44 PM   #17
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Increasing the size of the intercooler should not have affected peak horsepower in a negative way. By looking at the results, the end tanks and/or core must have been extremely restrictive causing the loss in peak power.
when you have major pressure drop, your peak HP is also affected because you only have 16psi at the intake manifold no matter what duty cycle you run..
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Old 02-12-2010, 06:28 PM   #18
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I think you missed my point. You stated that an incorrectly "sized" intercooler (such as oversized) can cause too much pressure drop. An intercooler that is truly oversized (higher flowing potential) will not be more restrictive and will not cause more pressure drop than a smaller one. This is just a crappy intercooler wether its the end tanks or core or both. Its not because its "over sized". In fact if it made that much pressure drop with a small turbo, it sure as heck won't work better with a much larger turbo.

Last edited by wittmer25; 02-12-2010 at 06:37 PM.
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Old 02-12-2010, 06:52 PM   #19
garageGT
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I think you missed my point. You stated that an incorrectly "sized" intercooler (such as oversized) can cause too much pressure drop. An intercooler that is truly oversized (higher flowing potential) will not be more restrictive and will not cause more pressure drop than a smaller one. This is just a crappy intercooler wether its the end tanks or core or both. Its not because its "over sized". In fact if it made that much pressure drop with a small turbo, it sure as heck won't work better with a much larger turbo.
No, on the contrary I think you are not thinking like we do OE turbo cannot push enough air to fill this thing up fast enough. Actually this could work well with a big frame garrett..
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Old 02-12-2010, 07:07 PM   #20
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I don't understand how an oversize intercooler can lower peak power. Transient response, yes, but thermodynamically speaking, the turbo flows X amount of air. A 100% efficient intercooler will induce a pressure drop as it cools the flow (right?), but no intercooler can affect how much air is being moved by the turbo. The larger the intercooler, holding intercooler efficiency constant, will simply cool the flow further, leading to greater power, not lower power.

The only theoretical explanation I can imagine being reasonably accurate is the one posited above - that this was an extremely inefficient core.
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Old 02-12-2010, 07:21 PM   #21
garageGT
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I don't understand how an oversize intercooler can lower peak power. Transient response, yes, but thermodynamically speaking, the turbo flows X amount of air. A 100% efficient intercooler will induce a pressure drop as it cools the flow (right?), but no intercooler can affect how much air is being moved by the turbo. The larger the intercooler, holding intercooler efficiency constant, will simply cool the flow further, leading to greater power, not lower power.

The only theoretical explanation I can imagine being reasonably accurate is the one posited above - that this was an extremely inefficient core.
our problem here is not filling the intercooler fast enough, we cant fill it up before its sucked by the motor.

Volume over pressure..

and its actually fluiddynamics you mention, not thermo..
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Old 02-12-2010, 07:50 PM   #22
maxpowr
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interesting although i don't know who is right on this one.
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Old 02-12-2010, 09:26 PM   #23
48mpg
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I'm going with wittmer on this.

volumetrically, the stock turbo will fill the intercooler.

the efficiency of the intercooler will cause the pressure drop.

a core that is too big will just cause it to take longer to fill and pressurize.

with all the e-thugging put aside, the wrong intercooler is def. not as good as the right intercooler.

when the wrong intercooler is of crap design/efficiency/size/endtank/piping or all of the above, it just makes the right intercooler look that much better.

and without putting all the math on here. at 23 psia, assuming that intercooler is 30*10*4, the mass of the air in the intercooler is ~0.1 lbm prolly less, a vf39 flows what ~35lbm/min.


and in defense of the guy who painted it, it prolly looks alot worse because of the flash when the picture was taken. in person I'm sure it looks descent.
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Old 02-12-2010, 09:35 PM   #24
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wittmer is correct, and it's forced not sucked
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Old 02-12-2010, 09:46 PM   #25
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^^^ I also agree with wittmer.

Something is up with that tune to. Looks like timing being pulled. Which is probably the reason why you lost power not to mention the wavy HP that matches the waves in TQ.
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