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Old 02-12-2010, 02:10 PM   #1
Turn in Concepts
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Default Racers - lug nut problem - gauging interest

Hey Guys -

I seem to have run into a problem in regards to lug nuts. Like many of you we run ARP studs on our TA car. Back for the 25 I went to get a whole bunch of spare lug nuts for the car. I was looking for long length, open ended, m12x1.25, STEEL nuts, with no funky knurling on the end of them. The point was so I we could use the quick sockets dealies that have the ejector spring.

I found some by muteki, and ended up buy all of them in the country for the race (which turned out to be a measly 24).

Seems that Muteki is no more.

Now, as a result I cannot at all find a lug nut that is what I want.

So I went looking, and that came up short, so I went to lug nut companies and asked for private label manufacture.

To get a lug nut like this:
  • Long (48-50mm)
  • Conical seat
  • NO funky end treatment
  • Steel (yes, steel. I want steel on these for good reason*)
  • Hex drive (no splines)

Even in a qty of 1,000 pieces my cost would be up in the 2.25 each range. After shipping and markup that means I'd have to bill about 3-3.50 EACH for them.

There's no way folks are going to buy a lug nut for $3+ so I got to thinking about this some more.

M12x1.5 is a MUCH more common size. That means lug nuts that fit the bill should be easier to find. I'm also pretty sure that ARP sells a stud that's the same as what we're used to, but in an M12x1.5.

So, the question is this, if I went digging, and found the studs in M12x1.5 and lug nuts that fit my requirements would there be enough interest from you guys in picking up conversion packs to make it worth the effort?

*Why do I want steel? Simple. Racers take wheels off so often that galvanic welding of the nut to the stud isn't a concern for you guys, BUT I KNOW that someone out there (likely many) will run these on their street car. The last thing I need is for someone's aluminum nut to weld to the steel stud because they drove the car all winter in salt without being aware of this problem. Next thing you know there's a whole bunch of TiC lug nuts suck threads.
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Old 02-12-2010, 02:18 PM   #2
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I have been using gorilla lug nuts that I got from discount tire and haven't had any issues. They are regular old steel, hex drive, 12x1.25, conical seat. They aren't extended but even with long studs I had no problem getting them on/off with a 17mm long impact socket.
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Old 02-12-2010, 02:20 PM   #3
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Ill be a tester. Im still on stock lugs, but they're getting beat up with the constant changing, so I'm looking for upgraded studs/lugs.
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Old 02-12-2010, 02:25 PM   #4
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I will give them a shot aswell. Why not.
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Old 02-12-2010, 02:29 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boost junkie View Post
I have been using gorilla lug nuts that I got from discount tire and haven't had any issues. They are regular old steel, hex drive, 12x1.25, conical seat. They aren't extended but even with long studs I had no problem getting them on/off with a 17mm long impact socket.
How much stud do you still have exposed once you have everything on there? Depending upon brake setup we get a range, and sometimes the left over stud can be quite long.
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Old 02-12-2010, 02:37 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turn in Concepts View Post
How much stud do you still have exposed once you have everything on there? Depending upon brake setup we get a range, and sometimes the left over stud can be quite long.
I didn't have much stud exposed, probably less than 10 threads. I was using 60mm nismo studs though, I don't know how much longer the ARP studs are.
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Old 02-12-2010, 02:45 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boost junkie View Post
I didn't have much stud exposed, probably less than 10 threads. I was using 60mm nismo studs though, I don't know how much longer the ARP studs are.
quicky measurement on the ARP studs on my car to hub face puts them just a shade over 66mm long.
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Old 02-12-2010, 03:02 PM   #8
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Similar to BoostJunkie -- I've been using a Gorilla style lugnut from Summit. $3 for a pack of 4.

http://www.summitracing.com/search/D...?Ns=Rank%7cAsc

I happen to use the 13/16 wrench size because I have thin wall spark plugs sockets that I use to take them on and off with.

My one and only complain is that because they are zinc coated the start looking kind of crudy fairly quickly.

Same as you with the thread exposed. Depending on what wheels and if I have the spacers in there it vary quite a bit. With the 17X9 +35(?) DPT's and the 10mm spacer there isn't much at all exposed (3 threads maybe, about perfect in my opinion). With the 17x7.5 +48 SDR's and no spacers --- It looks like I have freakin' death spikes sticking out
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Old 02-12-2010, 03:15 PM   #9
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Not the best pictures to get my point across but you can sort of see that there isn't a whole lot of stud exposed. This is with 3mm spacers.



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Old 02-12-2010, 03:19 PM   #10
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Completely off topic, sorry. Where'd you buy the latch clips you have holding your front bumper cover on?
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Old 02-12-2010, 03:20 PM   #11
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Pegasus.
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Old 02-12-2010, 03:39 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boost junkie View Post
Not the best pictures to get my point across but you can sort of see that there isn't a whole lot of stud exposed. This is with 3mm spacers.



Ok - so yours are open ended. For some reason I thought they were closed.

I found some other nuts that are open ended, but not deep like what I'm looking for. I have an email into them for private label manufacture to see what they say.
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Old 02-12-2010, 03:57 PM   #13
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We'd be up for a pitch change on both cars. Doesn't matter to us at all.....

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Old 02-12-2010, 04:42 PM   #14
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I am also interested if you are doing a package since i was going to order a set of arp's soon.
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Old 02-12-2010, 04:58 PM   #15
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Quote:
There's no way folks are going to buy a lug nut for $3+ so I got to thinking about this some more
I don't see why people wouldn't pay $60-$70 for a set of lug nuts that serve this specific purpose. There are many sets out there in that range or higher.
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Old 02-12-2010, 05:29 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leecea View Post
I don't see why people wouldn't pay $60-$70 for a set of lug nuts that serve this specific purpose. There are many sets out there in that range or higher.
The problem is that they will be steel. I see guys pay 100+ for trick colored aluminum lug nuts all the time, but I just don't see them going for that for steel ones.

My plan was to pack the nuts in a starter pack of 20 with the option to add more as folks need.
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Old 02-12-2010, 05:47 PM   #17
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I wonder if ARP would make their nascar speed studs/nuts to your specs if you ordered enough. They would be great for enduro pit stops, the studs have a bullet shaped tip and the studs and nuts have a dry film lubricant applied.

http://www.arp-bolts.com/catalog/Cat...talog_0067.pdf
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Old 02-12-2010, 05:52 PM   #18
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subrman has the arp's with the 1.5 pitch on his wide body sti.
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Old 02-12-2010, 06:06 PM   #19
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I'd think 1.5 pitch would be a good thing. The 1.5 has a higher torque spec would mean possibly more clamping force on the wheel, right?

But you definitely want open ended. I really like yellow chromate steel lug nuts.
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Old 02-12-2010, 06:13 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boost junkie View Post
I wonder if ARP would make their nascar speed studs/nuts to your specs if you ordered enough. They would be great for enduro pit stops, the studs have a bullet shaped tip and the studs and nuts have a dry film lubricant applied.

http://www.arp-bolts.com/catalog/Cat...talog_0067.pdf
Actually, I've been wondering about that one for months, but haven't had the testicular fortitude to call as I'm scared what they would quote.

Someone JUST pointed out to me that if I want the 1.5 conversion to go mainstream then all it would take is one numbnut to not remember they are running 1.5 and try and run down a 1.25 on it. Next thing you know, there's a TiC sucks thread out there much like there would be for an aluminum nut situation.

Looks like I need to look more into the 1.25 before I give up on it.
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Old 02-12-2010, 06:33 PM   #21
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I think you can sell lugs for lots more money than $3 a piece if they are reliable and have benefits. Think about the KICS R40, they retail for $200 or something like that. I don't pay that much for them, but I run them on all of my cars because:
#1. They are steel
#2. They are long
#3. They use a 17mm regular socket
#4. They are pretty

They also have that spinning seat which they say allows for even torquing since there is no surface friction messing with the actual torque of the stud, but whatever. They don't scratch the wheels, so it seems like a benefit to me. I haven't had any of them come loose or get stuck during events regardless of how crappy I drive and turn my brakes bright red.
They do come in crazy finishes if you want them, but you can get them in their standard chrome type finish.
I know Project Mu has them private labeled for them, perhaps you can get the same?
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Old 02-12-2010, 06:46 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by littlewhitewagon View Post
I think you can sell lugs for lots more money than $3 a piece if they are reliable and have benefits. Think about the KICS R40, they retail for $200 or something like that. I don't pay that much for them, but I run them on all of my cars because:
#1. They are steel
#2. They are long
#3. They use a 17mm regular socket
#4. They are pretty

They also have that spinning seat which they say allows for even torquing since there is no surface friction messing with the actual torque of the stud, but whatever. They don't scratch the wheels, so it seems like a benefit to me. I haven't had any of them come loose or get stuck during events regardless of how crappy I drive and turn my brakes bright red.
They do come in crazy finishes if you want them, but you can get them in their standard chrome type finish.
I know Project Mu has them private labeled for them, perhaps you can get the same?
Waste of money...they just slap some fancy looking coating on cheap lug nuts. I had a set a long time ago and they rusted pretty quickly. Plus lug nuts for a race car are just going to get torn up, nobody's gonna pay that kind of money for them. Regular old steel is the way to go, although the dry film lubricant would be a nice addition.
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Old 02-13-2010, 12:16 PM   #23
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I wouldn't completely agree with that. I swap my wheels often, although I am not a NASA driver like you, my car (lugs included) gets a pretty good beating and plenty of track time. But even worse, it gets lots of street duty (95k miles and counting) including snow.

The KICS lugs are open ended, the rust is coming from the studs from what I can see.

The feature that makes the KICS different is the rotating seat, it's not the pretty finish that's on them. I have yet to wear the threads out on any, and I have had the set since 90k miles ago. The outsides are still in good shape despite using impact guns on them.

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Old 02-13-2010, 12:50 PM   #24
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How about Fortune-Auto titanium lugs? I know you said steel, but these are stronger and lighter than steel and are designed for racing. No funky pattern, etc.

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Old 02-13-2010, 12:52 PM   #25
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The problem with Ti lugnuts is galling. same goes for aluminum. once you get a burr or some slight misalignment its lights out.



Steel is Real!
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