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Old 02-13-2010, 07:22 PM   #1
generalee69
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Default A new take on the frame rail brake duct setup

I got the new brake duct setup finished/painted today and got some pics. This is all based off Dunk's attempt to use the frame rail as a duct piece. We just made some innovations on his idea.

I saw a couple of issues with using his revised idea (chopping the frame rail out and welding in a full length tube). 1) I wanted to keep the crumple zone just in case of an on track accident, it seems like having that energy aboorption would be a good idea. 2) There is a main subframe mount bolt that runs through that channel (can be seen in one of the pictures). I did not want to cut that thing out, and wasn't really sure how Dunk got around it with his idea.

The vast majority of the work was done by Robb at Godspeed Fabrications in Auburn, WA. Robb is a great guy that is a very skilled fabricator and welder. I strongly recommend him!!

The front "bumper" piece is removable and uses the OE bumper studs/bolts to hold it one. The inlet round ducts transistion into a square-ish shape where the inlet meets the frame rail. AND as a bonus, we dropped 20lbs off the front of the car by removing the front bumper beam and replacing it with our setup.

Then we did basically the same thing where the outlet duct is. The front side was shaped to match the frame rail so that the transistion from square to round is as smooth as possible.

We finished the ducting off with some hi-temp heavy duty flexible ducting and the Quantum Motorsports brake ducts.

Just testing subjectively by using a compressed air nozzle from about 4 feet away it feels like there is not much flow loss from the front of the car to the rotor (based on what we could feel with our hands).

All I have left to do is insert some screens in the inlets to prevent large debris from getting in there. Should have that done tonight.













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Old 02-13-2010, 08:32 PM   #2
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swift idea, i like.
surprise you guys kept the stock front subframe....its heavy
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Old 02-13-2010, 09:05 PM   #3
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So, your "tubes" line up with the fog lights?
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Old 02-13-2010, 09:15 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by watchdoc View Post
So, your "tubes" line up with the fog lights?
They look to close together to line up with the fog lights. Cutting holes in the front bumper? Do you have a link to Dunks setup for reference?
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Old 02-13-2010, 09:15 PM   #5
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very smart idea. i like it.
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Old 02-13-2010, 09:29 PM   #6
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cool-cool...
hope its a track only car!...cause if your coastal or up in the frozen north with salted roads... :S
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Old 02-13-2010, 09:41 PM   #7
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Quote:
surprise you guys kept the stock front subframe....its heavy
It's also very strong and effective. It's only 28 lbs and it's low on the car.
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Old 02-13-2010, 11:30 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Honest Bob View Post
Do you have a link to Dunks setup for reference?
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...ke+ducts+frame

generallee, what's the rest of the setup? As the others asked, where do the inlets mate to the front bumper?

Pat Olsen
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Old 02-14-2010, 12:01 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 25rsti View Post
swift idea, i like.
surprise you guys kept the stock front subframe....its heavy
It hasn't been a weak enough of a link to need addressing... yet. I'm sure some day we will upgrade to something that is stronger and lighter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Honest Bob View Post
They look to close together to line up with the fog lights. Cutting holes in the front bumper? Do you have a link to Dunks setup for reference?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Olsen View Post
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...ke+ducts+frame

generallee, what's the rest of the setup? As the others asked, where do the inlets mate to the front bumper?

Pat Olsen
Thanks Pat for posting up that link.

Yes we had to cut 2 holes in the bumper cover to run the inlets. It worked out pretty well in my opinion though. The inlet follows the radius of the fog light cover in the upper corner. Looks fairly "natural".


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Old 02-14-2010, 11:41 AM   #10
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Not bad, you'll definitely get more airflow the way dunk did it but this is a lot less work.
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Old 02-14-2010, 11:47 AM   #11
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+1 neet idea
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Old 02-14-2010, 11:48 AM   #12
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good idea
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Old 02-14-2010, 03:03 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boost junkie View Post
Not bad, you'll definitely get more airflow the way dunk did it but this is a lot less work.
I was hoping he would chime in here and discuss how he got around the subframe bolt that runs through the middle of the channel. We had to actually knock out a piece that completely blocks that airflow passage and just beef up the bolt support.

Maybe the bugeye chassis is just a bit different than the blob eye?

I agree his way will get more airflow, if it is a full 3" all the way through.

The other major restriction, even more so than the frame rail, is the hub mounted Quantum Motorsports duct. That thing is half blocked by the ABS sensor/hub.

We were not having issues with brake temps last season, but this season we bumped our wheel sizes from 7.5" wide to 9.0". We also bumped the horsepower 270ish whp to 330whp. Hopefully this will be enough of an improvement to keep the temps in check.
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Old 02-14-2010, 03:21 PM   #14
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Unfortunately I'm underway right now and my internet filter won't let me see your pictures.

I think the real trick with effective brake ducting (and one even I haven't perfected yet) is to make sure you block off any escape for air between the duct and the rotor with good backing plates so that all the air that comes through the duct has to leave through the vanes of the rotor. I plan on trying to make better backing plates this year.

-Duncan
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Old 02-14-2010, 05:44 PM   #15
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Very clever!
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Old 07-19-2010, 06:41 PM   #16
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Thank you

Ray asked me via e-mail if I could make this into a kit. I'm thinking that there is just to much cutting and welding required though.

If you are local to me (Auburn Wa) I can build the system for you though.
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Old 09-14-2010, 04:19 PM   #17
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Cool!! Very good work!!
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Old 09-14-2010, 04:33 PM   #18
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There will be some revisions to the inlets this winter to help get more air through the system. I'll post an update when they are complete.
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Old 09-20-2010, 01:05 PM   #19
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cool idea
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Old 09-20-2010, 01:19 PM   #20
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Can you give me a hint - I plan on doing something like this also - BTW great idea!

Ray
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Old 09-20-2010, 11:11 PM   #21
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I think I need more surface area at the inlet side. So I am planning on enlarging the front where it comes through the bumper cover. The inlet will wind up being roughly 3 times the surface area of the ducting.
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Old 09-20-2010, 11:50 PM   #22
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Have you done any measurements - I guess the real question is why are you doing this?
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Old 09-20-2010, 11:53 PM   #23
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go take a look at the front end of our car from 2009 RTA in new jersey. You'll notice that we added little scoops to our inlets to catch air sliding off the front bumper.

Otherwise we were limited to air hitting the holes directly.

It made a huge difference in temps, and was one of the many little things that nobody notices unless they are looking really close.
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Old 09-20-2010, 11:58 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rbahr View Post
Have you done any measurements - I guess the real question is why are you doing this?
I'm not getting enough flow through the inlet to cool the rotors enough. At faster tracks where there is time to cool things down I don't have a problem with (Pacific Raceways and PIR). At slower harder braking tracks (Mission and ORP) I still boil the fluid (RBF600) and overheat the rotors.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turn in Concepts View Post
go take a look at the front end of our car from 2009 RTA in new jersey. You'll notice that we added little scoops to our inlets to catch air sliding off the front bumper.

Otherwise we were limited to air hitting the holes directly.

It made a huge difference in temps, and was one of the many little things that nobody notices unless they are looking really close.
I'll have to check it out. Thanks.
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Old 09-21-2010, 12:26 AM   #25
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Thanks!

Ray
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