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Old 09-28-2010, 10:25 PM   #276
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Avo helped me out on the downpipe. The have a non-us ts cast upper bit that bolts to their 3" downpipe tube.

They were nice enough to bring one in for me.
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Old 09-29-2010, 01:47 AM   #277
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Please someone.... can a manufacturor make a stock mount 400-500whp twin scroll bolt on. I know us 207 guys wanna bolt on n make big power on the cheapest route. To be honest if someone doesn't come out with this soon I will probably end up selling my ts vf37 kit n go single scroll stock mount 35r ewg.
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Old 09-29-2010, 09:28 AM   #278
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Originally Posted by OppositeLock View Post
Take a look at the shape of the gasket and the shape of the opening on that bellmouth. If it was the right shape I would have already given it a shot.
Good eye, didn't even catch that. Do you think they just use that as a stock-type photo and the actual piece matches the TS outlet, or just a POS?


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Originally Posted by Turn in Concepts View Post
Avo helped me out on the downpipe. The have a non-us ts cast upper bit that bolts to their 3" downpipe tube.

They were nice enough to bring one in for me.
Nice, thanks for the info, looks good!

http://www.avoturboworld.com/avoshop...roll-p-10.html

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Old 09-29-2010, 09:58 AM   #279
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Before I went to the twinscroll setup i was running a straight pipe. It sounded awesome on the stock USDM headers.

Then I went to the JDM TS setup, and it sounded like poop.

I picked up a P&L street series exhaust with resonator, and that helped it out quite a bit.
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Old 09-29-2010, 09:59 AM   #280
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Good eye, didn't even catch that. Do you think they just use that as a stock-type photo and the actual piece matches the TS outlet, or just a POS?


Nice, thanks for the info, looks good!

http://www.avoturboworld.com/avoshop...roll-p-10.html

I just thought you should know that it seems AVO does not make the Cast turbo outlet with the divided casting anymore (as depicted in the picture), i.e separating wastegate/exhaust gases. Well, at least mine was not devided. AFAIK it does'nt have any negative impacts, but it does look different. So don't be surprised when you get it.

Another thing is the weight of this thing..... it weighs about the same as a complete catless downpipe I have the AVO TS cast turbo outlet and the weight bothers me to the extent that I am I am seriously considering just getting a Hayward and Scott or Milltek TS downpipe. Not sure if the weight is an issue though, also I am not trying to bash AVO in any way. I am just worried about the weight, especially since our roads are in such a lousy condition over here.

Maybe TIC could give their professional opinion regarding the weight?
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Old 09-29-2010, 01:21 PM   #281
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It's heavy. Really heavy. I went with it as it was really the only option at the time. I tried the others, but even with a vendor status they didn't want to play ball for two of them.

AVO was great to work with, and brought two in no problem (sorry guys - the other sold LONG ago).

Now, one option that is out there is we could have someone like Moore Performance make one, and see how that goes. I think they would be open to the idea. As it is we can talk to them about it as we've been talking about working with them this winter to develop a new rotated mount TS kit for the race car that we could carry over into a product offering.
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Old 09-29-2010, 01:24 PM   #282
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OH! and a separate post as this one is on my car. I was reading through some old data last night before bed, and realized I'm an idiot. I do not believe the injectors on my car are 660's. They are decapped stockers that are flowing 816. I informed Applied and they are going to double check for me.

That's what I get for my car being down for 2.5 years and having way too many Subaru related numbers go through my brain each day. It would also explain why the injectors were not the limiting factor that I thought it would be.

Other news is the KS Tech intake showed up there today so they are going to put it on and see what happens.
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Old 09-29-2010, 02:05 PM   #283
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I take it that AVO TS outlet is cast iron then? Can't believe it's so heavy! I've bought the IA Performance TS flange in the past for a project, but I wish someone would bring a complete, competitively priced TS downpipe to market.

http://www.iaperformance.com/product...oducts_id=1796

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Old 09-29-2010, 07:50 PM   #284
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Originally Posted by Turn in Concepts View Post
AVO was great to work with, and brought ly heavy. I went with it as it was really the only option at two in no problem (sorry guys - the other sold LONG ago).
to me =)

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Originally Posted by Turn in Concepts View Post
OH! and a separate post as this one is on my car. I was reading through some old data last night before bed, and realized I'm an idiot. I do not believe the injectors on my car are 660's. They are decapped stockers that are flowing 816. I informed Applied and they are going to double check for me.

That's what I get for my car being down for 2.5 years and having way too many Subaru related numbers go through my brain each day. It would also explain why the injectors were not the limiting factor that I thought it would be.

Other news is the KS Tech intake showed up there today so they are going to put it on and see what happens.
i'd like to see what this intake does for performance. i hope they post the graphs soon, smooth lines are what i'm looking for
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Old 09-29-2010, 09:56 PM   #285
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I wish someone would bring a complete, competitively priced TS downpipe to market.
^^^^
+10,000
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Old 09-29-2010, 11:32 PM   #286
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Originally Posted by Turn in Concepts View Post
It's heavy. Really heavy. I went with it as it was really the only option at the time. I tried the others, but even with a vendor status they didn't want to play ball for two of them.

AVO was great to work with, and brought two in no problem (sorry guys - the other sold LONG ago).

Now, one option that is out there is we could have someone like Moore Performance make one, and see how that goes. I think they would be open to the idea. As it is we can talk to them about it as we've been talking about working with them this winter to develop a new rotated mount TS kit for the race car that we could carry over into a product offering.

That's definitely a possibility! Would you guys like to see a bellmouth design or a divorced setup like I currently offer for my stock location single scroll turbo DP's?

https://mooreperformanceparts.com/Do...formation.html

If this were to happen the rear two sections of the DP would remain the same as they are now (with a high flow cat being an option in the center) and I would simply change the first section that bolts directly to the turbo. Also, does anyone have a wrx or sti with this turbo setup currently installed that's close to my location that I could use to mock up and test fit one of these downpipes? We're pretty busy right now moving into our new shop and working on some custom exhaust builds, but this could definitely be a possibility in the near future if there's enough interest! Let me know what you guys think.
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Old 09-30-2010, 09:32 AM   #287
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we looked into doing a pipe before, but just couldn't get it off the ground. The biggest problem was the outlet flange.

I'm checking with a source right now on that because if we can get them for these pipes it will make your life much easier.

If worse comes to worse I can bring my car up for this project when we bring the race car for that project.
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Old 09-30-2010, 10:16 AM   #288
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How would you guys do the section of piping that joins to the TS flange? Seems like a very difficult shape to bend, and casting has already proven to be heavy. Would it have to be sectionally welded JDM-style haha?

We built a TS downpipe for our race car in CZ using the IA flange I posted above, but our fab guy said it was still a PITA.
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Old 09-30-2010, 10:34 AM   #289
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Good news! I have a source for the VF37 and VF36 turbo outlet flanges so the hardest part it taken car of.

Moore Performance - I'll get some here so we can start on this project post haste.

Now, for the fun part -

From my research on IHI turbos from back in the day I made some discoveries.

These things are like legos.... to a point. the delineation seems to be with the center cartridge type and the turbine housings (more on compressor housings further down).

If you use a BB center then you need a BB hot side.

If you use a JB center then you need a JB hot side.

For example:

When I got my VF37 it had more shaft play than my VF39. So I took them apart and started looking at things.

The VF37 and VF39 had the same turbine wheel.
The VF37 and VF39 had the same compressor wheel.
The center cartridge looked to be the same between the two.

So, what I did was simply swap the WG and VF37 turbine housing onto my VF39 cartridge. Bam! Instant VF37 with less shaft play.

Then I did something that I had learned even earlier.

It seems that the VF34 flowed more than the old VF39 (and had a BB center, but that doesn't apply here). The VF34 and VF39 looked to have the same compressor wheel, yet from looking at the two and then looking at the compressor maps I was able to figure out that the VF34 only flows more due to the compressor housing. It turns out that the VF34 and VF30 have the same compressor housing (VF30 being a VF34 with journal bearings).

So, I swapped on a VF34 housing. This is actually something we had done a few times before and worked nicely so that's what I did.

I guess you could say in the end my old VF37 wasn't a true VF37. Instead I essentially had a VF30 twinscroll. TS hot side with the VF30 compressor flow characteristics.

I then did some more digging. The VF22 (at the time the biggest IHI turbo used on a subaru to date) had the same turbine wheel as the VF39 and VF37. The compressor housing was the same as the VF34. What was different on this one was the compressor wheel.

It LOOKED like it would work with some slight modification, but I never made it that far.

Since then the VF48 came out on the new cars. I have not looked at those to see if these tricks still hold true.

So, what's the point of all this rambling? Well, that's simple.

Someone can convert to a small TS setup by getting their hands on a VF39, a VF37 turbine housing, then headers and UP and DP.

That would be a very good way to start to get into the TS world without breaking the bank. THEN! They could save up for the conversion to the Blouch TS dom 2.5 (or whatever they are calling it).

Here are the big problems that I foresee.
1) headers, UP and DP
2) Turbine housing
3) WG (I'm still not sure of the differences between the TS WG and the SS WG)

These are three problems that can be overcome through with some work.

For problem 1 we can see if Moore Performance would be interested in the project. They already have a TS header that they make so what would be left is an UP and DP for this. We've already proposed the DP and we have a source for the flange which is the hard part.

For problem 2 that can be a bit more tricky as there's no good sources for IHI parts in the US. I can see about sourcing this as I have a few contacts I can talk to about it.

For problem 3 that's not really a problem. Blouch has all sorts of WG setups that we can work with to figure this out.

That leaves the 4th problem. Interest. We need to make sure there's ACTUALLY interest to do this little project.... or else I'm just dreaming again.

Now, I know a number of folks are watching this thread for updates on my car as it's really the US test bed for the Blouch conversion. No worries. The latest is the intake showed up yesterday at ATS. They will get to playing with the car when they can squeeze it in, and I or they will provide some updates as things go.
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Old 09-30-2010, 10:39 AM   #290
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How would you guys do the section of piping that joins to the TS flange? Seems like a very difficult shape to bend, and casting has already proven to be heavy. Would it have to be sectionally welded JDM-style haha?

We built a TS downpipe for our race car in CZ using the IA flange I posted above, but our fab guy said it was still a PITA.
I'm not sure how Moore Perf would do it, BUT if it were me for a good sized production run I'd have a mandrel made to that shape and press the 3" pipe onto it to "swag" it out to the shape.
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Old 09-30-2010, 12:40 PM   #291
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interesting discoveries. i've thought about swapping 39 parts once i get some play on my 37 but stopped researching when i heard blouch was releasing the upgrade. count me in for interest. sadly i may be the only one with this setup in my state =\
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Old 09-30-2010, 01:23 PM   #292
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interesting discoveries. i've thought about swapping 39 parts once i get some play on my 37 but stopped researching when i heard blouch was releasing the upgrade. count me in for interest. sadly i may be the only one with this setup in my state =\
I'm pretty sure you are, and I don't plan on driving mine back home any time soon so you'll probably be that way for a good long while.
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Old 09-30-2010, 02:28 PM   #293
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Someone can convert to a small TS setup by getting their hands on a VF39, a VF37 turbine housing, then headers and UP and DP.

That would be a very good way to start to get into the TS world without breaking the bank.
Very interesting, many thanks for taking the time to research and experiment with this. I would love this set-up on an EJ20 as a torquey daily driver.

Am I crazy, or do I remember reading about a shop in the UK that has ready access to VF37 turbine housings?


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Originally Posted by Turn in Concepts View Post
I'm not sure how Moore Perf would do it, BUT if it were me for a good sized production run I'd have a mandrel made to that shape and press the 3" pipe onto it to "swag" it out to the shape.
Man that would be rad, the other way I imagined was having a mandrel in the shape of the first section of the TS downpipe, then "wrapping" the steel around it and welding a seam down the length of it, if that makes any sense.
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Old 09-30-2010, 02:52 PM   #294
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Very interesting, many thanks for taking the time to research and experiment with this. I would love this set-up on an EJ20 as a torquey daily driver.

Am I crazy, or do I remember reading about a shop in the UK that has ready access to VF37 turbine housings?




Man that would be rad, the other way I imagined was having a mandrel in the shape of the first section of the TS downpipe, then "wrapping" the steel around it and welding a seam down the length of it, if that makes any sense.
You're not crazy, and I tried getting in touch with them. No go on that.

I'll work my other contacts to see if we can get the ball rolling.
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Old 09-30-2010, 04:14 PM   #295
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Ok so I talked to Blouch to get more info on the 2.5xtr TS. $1549 and it requires the VF37 to make it. They also directed me to the scoobynet forums for the dyno graphs posted by scoobyclinic, the turbo is called the SC46 Billet Twin Scroll.

Remember, these are BHP not WHP. Need to factor in the roughly 20% loss.

This one is on E85 with FMIC
http://bbs.scoobynet.com/showpost.ph...&postcount=776

E85 with stock TMIC, upgraded intake/inlet/exhaust/fuel pump/injectors/remap.
http://bbs.scoobynet.com/showpost.ph...&postcount=318

Boost response on the road ^^
"The turbo makes 1 bar of boost at 3100 RPM, 1.5 bar at 3500 RPM. and 1.7 bar at 3700 RPM, gearbox is a 6 speeder tests in 4th gear, on a flat road."
http://bbs.scoobynet.com/showpost.ph...&postcount=336

Here are the results of the Litchfield LM450-S60
http://bbs.scoobynet.com/showpost.ph...&postcount=315

Now the question is..... what fuel was the Litchfield running. If E85 then the Blouch TS makes a decent amount more TQ/HP at 4000rpms and holds the same amount of power at redline. If the Litchfield is on normal pump (which is higher octane in the UK than here) that is impressive and explains the power difference at 4k. But is the difference between there normal fuel and E85 that much, or is the extar 10-20hp all that the litchfield would see with E85? If so, than the Blouch is comparable at a much lower price ($1k less).

EDIT: The litchfield setup had a FMIC which explains the lower power at 4k. Would love to see the Blouch with a similar setup on the same fuel for a direct comparison...... but right now it doesn't look like the difference warrants the extra $1k for the litchfield.

Last edited by LIQUIDSK8S; 09-30-2010 at 06:51 PM.
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Old 09-30-2010, 04:22 PM   #296
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You're not crazy, and I tried getting in touch with them. No go on that.

I'll work my other contacts to see if we can get the ball rolling.
I suppose there is something to be said for having a corner on the market, but hopefully someone else can get their hands on them too or even cast a decent custom housing!

Is it these guys?

http://www.scoobyclinic.com/shop_engine.htm

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Old 09-30-2010, 04:42 PM   #297
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I suppose there is something to be said for having a corner on the market, but hopefully someone else can get their hands on them too or even cast a decent custom housing!

Is it these guys?

http://www.scoobyclinic.com/shop_engine.htm

I don't remember. I'll have to look, but it was a long time ago.
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Old 09-30-2010, 08:48 PM   #298
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Originally Posted by LIQUIDSK8S View Post
Ok so I talked to Blouch to get more info on the 2.5xtr TS. $1549 and it requires the VF37 to make it. They also directed me to the scoobynet forums for the dyno graphs posted by scoobyclinic, the turbo is called the SC46 Billet Twin Scroll.

Boost response on the road ^^
"The turbo makes 1 bar of boost at 3100 RPM, 1.5 bar at 3500 RPM. and 1.7 bar at 3700 RPM, gearbox is a 6 speeder tests in 4th gear, on a flat road."
http://bbs.scoobynet.com/showpost.ph...&postcount=336
The boost response is very impressive, but at that price it might be a tough sell, especially factoring in the cost of a VF37, TS header and a custom TS downpipe.


Who's gonna cast a VF37 turbine housing replica?
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Old 09-30-2010, 08:58 PM   #299
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The boost response is very impressive, but at that price it might be a tough sell, especially factoring in the cost of a VF37, TS header and a custom TS downpipe.


Who's gonna cast a VF37 turbine housing replica?
Yes, until they have the housing it will be a tough sell unless someone already has a VF37....... which I do
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Old 09-30-2010, 09:29 PM   #300
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More news from Applied. They got the intake on and started tuning for it. It's going well, and they can already see a difference. Mainly from a spool standpoint.

I know they are really busy, and my pestering them isn't helping, but hopefully they can chime in here soon.
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